Need help with F3-B Santa-Fe Rail Sounds Unit

[Anonymous]

Hi - I just bought Lionel 18136 F3-B unit with RailSounds on Ebay. I have never seen or heard RailSounds before and I never had a chance to play with modern era Lionel Train so I am not familiar with them. I need help figuring out if my unit works or if it is defected. I place F3-B on the track and as soon as I pull throttle lever on my old ZW transformer I hear start-up sequence. I then manually move the unit on the track hoping to hear RPM sound but, when after the start-up sequence is finished - there is no more sounds from F3-B. I try to sound a horn with the whistle knob on the ZW but nothing happens!? Do I need TMCC to hear sounds other than the startup sequence? I placed the battery inside but nothing changed. Please help. Thanks a lot.

[eZAK]

mkturtle,

Check out this link for your owners manual; http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/Findex.cfm

You should have use of some Railsounds features.

[Anonymous]

Yes - I have already checked Lionel web site and downloaded manual. That is way I am confused. Manual says when power is applied to the tracks, start-up sequence should play and as the train speeds up RPM sound and roar should change. Well, in my case, start-up sequence plays for a few seconds, at that time I start manually moving the car expecting the RPM and roar but nothing happens after the start-up sequence is done playing.
Also, manual does not say anything about the horn either….

[eZAK]

I allmost forgot,
[#welcome] to the forum!

Well I don't have any seperate units with railsounds but the engines that I do have that have railsounds operate like 'normal' in conventional mode(non command enviroment)
i.e. Horn, Bell, & Engine sounds.
You will however not get things like tower com, crew talk, & shut down.

As for your problem have you tried the unit with the switch in RS AND Signal sounds?
Is the result the same?

If your problem does not get solved here try contacting Lionel direct.

[Anonymous]

Thanks!

Well - this is non-powered B unit and it has two switches: SIG/FULL and PROG/RUN. Manual says unit should be in FULL and RUN mode if on the conventional setup. I tried flipping switches but the result was the same. My transformer does not have "bell" trigger either. I just downloaded manual for the AB set released in 1996 (a year before my 2343C was released) and it says I need 5906 activation button in order to use bell/horn???
I will try to take it to my local hobby shop and see if they can take a look at it - they are licensed Lionel service/dealer.
Thanks for your help.

[wrmcclellan]

mk,

The RPM is activated by a round magnet on one of the axles. There is also a sensor to detect the change of magnet state (NS to SN) as the magnet turns. The sensor is called a Hall Effect sensor.

Check to see that the magnet and sensor are in place. The sensor is on a small printed circuit board (green) mounted on the truck assembly very close to the magnet. The sensor has 3 very small wires going to it. These wires sometimes break off and thus the sensor does not work.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Roy - I'll inspect the truck when I get home tonight. I remember looking at it last night and there were 3 wires going to the area close to round magnet. I don't remember seeing green PCB. If I remember it correctly there was something plastic that looked like housing for something and my thought was that the sensor was missing completely - but I will check it out tonight!
So - I should be able to hear RPM without using TMCC or CAB….?
Thanks.
Mirza

[wrmcclellan]

Mirza,

Yes. The RS should work without TMCC. For the older Lionel like you have, RS works the same for conventional or TMCC.

One other thought - make sure the unit is moving continuously - just a quick roll may not trigger the RPM "rev up."

You will also need at least one 5906 sound activation button even if the ZW button works as the horn and bell are activated by using a different polarity (+ or -) of DC offset of the AC waveform. If the rectifier in the ZW is weak, then two 5906's can be used back-to-back to obtain the necessary offsets for horn and bell.

Although not in the Lionel catalogs, the 610-5906-001 is still available via Lionel direct.

1) Part Number: 610-5906-001
BUTTON,SND ACTIVATION - COMP
Price: $ 13.00

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Okay - I took the unit to a Lionel dealer and he put it on his set up. He first ran it with TMCC and all the sounds work just fine: start-up, roar, RPM, bells and horn. Once he switched to conventional set-up, unit started dropping out after the startup sequence - the same old problem. He tried re-programming it but that did not help. After a few tries he gave up and said that there must be some kind of a defect and he does not know what is wrong with it.

Any ideas - why would it work fine with TMCC and why would it drop out on conventional set up. My impression was once power is applied unit will roar no matter what mode it is in - until the power throttle lever goes off and then it is supposed to drop out if in conventional mode???

Thanks.
Mirza

[eZAK]

Mirza,
Thanks for keeping us informed

As you probally know the biggest difference between comm. & conv. is the amout of voltage on the track. 18v as opposed to 9v to 12v.

Just some more thoughts,
Have you tried full voltage in conv.?

Since Signal Sounds does not work you may have a bad board.
Is the hooby shop going to fix it ?
It should be covered under warranty. You have one year from date of purchase.
If not try Lionel at [e-mail] OR 586-949-4100

*Technical Services repair techs are available Wednesday – Friday from 10 am to 5 pm. ET at ext. 1360 to answer technical repair questions concerning specific product requiring service.

[Anonymous]

Hi Pat,

I tried a full power but the result was the same. Hobby shop guy says he would replace the board but if it was up to him he'd return it and get one of the new ones. I bought this unit from some nice lady on Ebay and she'll take it back if I don't want it.
I wanted this one because it was made in US and it was one of the rare "like new" F3's with RS I could afford. I might give Lionel service a call but I would not invest any more $$$ into this unit.

Thanks for your help.
Mirza

[iguanaman3]

That's a strange problem. Does the your F-3 have command control? If that's the case then maybe it's a sign that you should get a Command set. Then you will have TMCC AND railsounds.