the side-discourse in the Lionel 2023 Catalog thread regarding train show pricing made me think this would be a fun topic to explore- both to discuss my own personal ideals and preferences when collecting, and to hear about others, and generally discuss what makes it fun.I wanted to expand on a thought that began forming when Wayne (Flintlock) discussed a case of a 'junk box' with a hefty price tag at a recent show.For me, generally speaking, I don't adhere to any one specific clique- I collect anything and everything that amuses me. Yet, all the same, there are a few unifying traits to my madness.The biggest "rules" to my collecting are:-Never make impulse purchases unless they're dirt cheap.-Play the waiting game.-Your finances are finite- spend them meaningfully.-Consider additional costs you may encounter later, when acquiring projects.There are more detailed descriptions of these practices, but the idea isn't that they're rules I need to follow, but rather advice to myself based on what I've learned from past experiences.Impulse Purchases:Multiple times in my life, I've bought things on impulse. Sometimes it's worked out well, sometimes the passion for something fades away not long afterwords and I question "why did I decide to spend my money on this? I could have bought something much more fun if I'd taken a moment to think about it harder". The idea is that if something only costs a couple bucks or less, it doesn't matter if it was a waste of money. But if it costs more than that, take the time to really think it over before you buy. Sometimes that's all it takes to think "well, to be honest I'm not that enamored with it, maybe I'll keep looking for now"The Waiting Game:We all have some sort of list of things we like- a mental list or a physical one, or some sense of what we enjoy. But there seldom are so few of a specific item that you'll never see one again. I'm pretty young for a train collector- I have time. So, maybe I see a Marx 666 going for $25, no tender. I could buy it, but I'll probably pass. Marx made plenty of them, and they crop up at shows and on eBay (eegh) all the time. So odds are I'll probably see another for the same price or less before too long. There's a lot you can do with $25 if your game is looking for projects. So I may want a 666, but I don't need to buy the specific example in front of me- there will be plenty more, there's no rush. I can wait. I'm not saying it only works with things in extreme plentiful supply, but the idea is- if you have time, and inclination, don't always buy the first one you see. Decide roughly what price will push you over the fence, and play the waiting game. Eventually the right one will find you.Finite Finances:At this point, everything is really all looping back together- some people have much much deeper pockets than me. So for others it may be less of a concern. But for me, it's important to consider that I have only so much money I can devote to trains. With that in mind, think about the exchange rate between money spent, and an estimate of how much enjoyment something will give you. It can be, and in my case generally is an abstract concept- but the general idea is kinda what I said regarding imuplse purchases. If something is expensive, it doesn't mean you should or shouldn't buy it. What matters is how much you want something on a deeper-than-surface level. For example, I really love my Lionel 2321- it cost me a lot, but it quickly proved to be one of my favorite locomotives. Considering how much I love running it, and how much I love even just looking at it... it was a good investment. At the time I bought it, it didn't strongly limit my ability to purchase anything else, and it's made me a very happy toy train lover. On the same token, sometimes buying a big, expensive thing can be less fun than a bunch of less pricey, smaller things. Very much a case-by-case thing.Forseeing Project Costs:This one is fairly straightforward- sometimes a project isn't a great idea to buy unless it's practically free. I have a 262E that has a bad frame, lots of significant rusting, and poor paint. A new frame would cost $80-90, and a lot of time and effort would go into making the loco look nice again. In my case, it was given to me, but if I saw it at a show, I'd immediately pass on it. Knowing me, something in need of that much work is going to sit around forever. The costs of restoring it outweigh what I can justify putting into it.So basically, the idea is that if I'm buying a project, I don’t want to spend a disproportionate amount of money for something that needs work- the nature of what it needs will determine how far I can go price wise. If I can't get it for at or less that price, it's not worth going after. The idea is to avoid frustration and feeling like I got ripped off. Who wants to pay $30 for a locomotive with a bad motor, that's not worth more than $40 in decent shape. And then to find that the cheapest replacement motors cost as much as they paid for the loco... that's not a fun time. So inspect, get a rough idea of what the train probably needs... or buy it at a price so low that it's hardly an issue if it winds up not being worth your while to fix it up.Long winded stuff, but at the end of the day, it's not that complicated in my head. It's just a mental list of things to consider when thinking about making a purchase. And it's made collecting trains a lot more fun for me!One of my favorite aspects of the hobby, is finding things that have been played with, and are in need of some TLC. Bringing stuff back to life is half the fun, sometimes it's more exciting than playing with stuff that's been fixed. And I love hunting for good deals, particularly in 'junk' bins.One last note- one of my favorite things to keep an eye out for are 'oddballs'- things that seem just plain weird or unusual to me, ie, not the stuff I'm used to seeing, stuff that piques my curiosity because it's different from anything I have. Some of the examples I own aren't particularly nice models, or in particularly nice shape, but they make for neat conversation pieces, and more importantly, they amuse me. What more could one ask for?So, there's some thoughts from me. What things do you consider when 'on the hunt', and what sorts of toy train things do you feel most passionate for? Do tell!-Ellie
Ah, now THIS could turn into an interesting discussion indeed!
(Who'd have thought an overpriced junk box would be the inspiration?)
Anyway, I'd say what got me into this was a burgeoning interest in railroad history. I'd chased military history for decades and finally wanted to move onto something else. Knowing I'd never own a real steam engine models of the same were a good substitute so down that path I went. A resurrected childhood Lionel 2018 sparked the interest even more. Now let's run through Ellie's discussion topics.
Impulse purchases. I've been pretty resistant to those, usually when they happened the item was a colorful billboard boxcar. One exception was a Williams Atlantic Coast Line F3 diesel with accompanying streamlined passenger cars just 'cause they looked so cool! I sold the set last year since I hardly ever ran it anymore, got out of it what I had in it so I'm happy.
The "Waiting Game." Oh, yeah. I've found patience is the greatest asset you can have! I've avoided paying the inflated prices post-wars were going for back in the 1990s and now that the prices have dropped I can indulge myself a bit, on engines anyway. I've no interest in accessories and can take or leave most of the rolling stock. Patience is also an asset that's kept me from jumping on the "Latest and greatest!" 'cause sooner or later it's going to show up used and a lot cheaper.
Finite finances? Oh yeah, and a great discipline-builder is paying cash. Watching that cabbage in the wallet diminish as you make your purchases is a great way to put a brake on impulse buying. Unlike a credit card you can SEE the money disappear, it's not an abstract.
In all honesty though I have to admit paying more than I wanted to for a Lionel Jersey Central Camelback. Lionel or MTH I didn't care but I wanted one of those CNJ Camels. I rationalized paying what I did because you just don't see them anywhere, even up in NJ where I suspect they disppear into basements never to see the light of day again for decades. By comparison a year later I paid $100 less for a NYO&W Camel. That was at Henning's in PA where I'd guess the "Old & Weary" is a "Who cares?" 'road. Supply and demand at work.
Forseeing project costs. Yeah, there's been times I've said "Forget it! I'm not putting any more money in this thing!" The end result being I blow it out cheap at a club show.
Right now I've got all the historically correct steam engine models I've been looking for so that book is closed. Now I can play a bit, which brings me to...
"It Finds ME!" Like that 259e set I bought in August that said "Please take me home with you!" every time I walked past it. Or the Atlas "City Transport" trolley that found me at last weekend's show that I'm going to make a repaint project out of. OR that 2065 post-war that I'm going to turn Erie. And maybe I'll find a 736 in so-so exterior condition and turn a Berk into a Mike. Since fantasy paint schemes are growing on me I'm thinking of doing a Jersey Transit "pet" steam engine to "pull excursions." Like I said, play time!
Wayne, delighted to hear your thoughts! I've "overpayed" for some items before- the important thing is that they're things I'm still glad I own. Sometimes you drop a bit more money than you'd prefer, but if it doesn't feel like money wasted, I think you've done well for yourself. That's how I see it anyway!I got into the hobby of 'toy trains' in a funny way- a semi-complete 1971 'Yardmaster' set in horrible shape. Some day I'll get it fixed up, I never was able to get that darn 8111 DT&I NW2 working as a kid. But it did start me collecting Lionel 3-rail. Very limited funds (I was a kid with little allowance, and still getting comfortable with doing odd jobs to earn some cash) meant that I couldn't afford most 'nice' stuff- and I still wanted to fix my set that started the O gauge adventure. And it was a pain to take stuff to the hobby shop in Springfield (found out they closed during 2020 or 2021 iirc) to get their guy to fix stuff, some of it didn't come back working any better than when I left it there. So I worked on teaching myself how to fix trains- I watched how-to videos, but mostly just figured stuff out from taking things apart. A side affect of needing to do my own maintenance work was that eventually I came to really enjoy doing it- now I tend to deliberately avoid stuff that's in good, working order- why pay extra, and miss out on all the fun of servicing it? So yeah. That's the gist of how I began collecting toy trains.Speaking of project 736s by the way.... I have one I would consider parting with.Someone customized it a lot in the past. Among other things, it was altered to have an electronic reverse unit, the E-Unit slot was filled in, and a cut-out switch for the reverse unit was installed inside the cab. They also added a "chuff" switch that is actuated by the smoke lever. Unfortunately the reverse unit was toast back when I got it. Also unfortunately, I never was able to get a good runner out of it. I wanted her to be a B&M berk, but the worm wheel is slid over on the axle, and one of the modifications the previous owner made, which I don't understand the point of, kinda ruined the motor. I did everything I could but they messed it up and now the armature strikes the field, even after I replaced the bearings with brand new ones. I've pretty much accepted that between the slid worm wheel and the useless motor, that this one's beyond me. If that doesn't scare you, drop me an E-Mail!-Ellie
I have always had a rather limited train budget so I like to take beat up equipment and make it into something else .I had purchased a K-Line Interurban from the JC Penney catalog in the late 80s and decided to make. NYC boxcab body out of plastic,brass and other parts .Some work but I am happy with the results .In 2002 I had Train America put in Saw board that added a horn and bell .one of my fave engines to this day!I also was reading an article in Fine Scale Modeler Magazine about a Russian Rail Tank that I decided to make out of sheet plastic .I found an ICM T-28 tank kit that provided the master for an RTV Mold that I used to resin cast the three turrets required for the project .I marked it with both Russian Stars ,and Aberdeen Proving Grounds lettering to represent a captured rail tank the we aquired after the war and sent by ship to Aberdeen for evaluation.It currently rides on a Williams Heavyweight Passenger Car chassis .The Dreyfuss was a badly tarnished boiler I found on the Bay that I painted light grey .Since the only running chassis that I had was an MTH 4-8-2 I adapted it to fit .Not correct but fit pretty well and one of my favorite engines.(used the die cast MTH and painted and decaled it to match the engine)So it is a fun challenge to see what you can do !
Everything looks great, especially the rail tank! That's a masterpiece!
El Fixes Things If that doesn't scare you, drop me an E-Mail!
I'm scared all right! After reading your post I've got a few more grey hairs than I had this morning!
Plastic surgery's one thing, raising the dead's beyond my talents!
Thanks for the offer though!
Thanks;I always thought it was cool!
Philo, all those customs are wicked cool. Definitely inspiring, I haven't really done a big custom project but every time I see stuff like what you've done, I start getting ideas! A recent one I had, was the possibility of using 253 parts to build an O gauge Hoosac Tunnel motor. It would require at least 1, probably 2 shells, 2 motors, 2 steam loco pilot trucks, and a LOT of custom work.Wayne, don't blame you. If I'd known how much of a mess this engine was when I bought it... well, I wouldn't have bought it, now would I? If I ever find a replacement motor (heck, even just a motor body and field would do, the brush plate and armature are fine) for cheap, then I can ascertain how bad the worm-wheel situation is. It's definitely not where it should be, but it might be good enough to have a runner.I hope one of these days you score that project berk yourself... good luck. -Ellie
That is a cool box Cab for sure!Hope you make it!
tahiti desktop wallpaper
The GM&O car is a very fun model. The bold colors and streamlined look all make for something really fun to have in O 3-rail!It'd be fun to make the boxcab someday. They used them on the ~4¾ mile long Hoosac Tunnel electrification, it was only active from the 1910s to shortly after WWII ended. Dieselization of the B&M spelled the end of the electric operation, which was strictly between facilities around the east portal in Florida MA, and the yards in North Adams MA, not far from the west portal. They look similar to some of the New Haven's boxcabs, hence why I think a 253 might make a good starting point. I don't think I could build one from complete scratch, even if it would result in a more accurate model. A 256 might be a better starting point to get a more accurate look... but if I was lucky enough to have a 256, I wouldn't dream of modifying it. Not unless it truly was barely more than a bucket of rust to begin with.
-Ellie
The search must begin!
I appear to be a classic rubber gauger, but the truth is a little deeper.
I have a hi-rail layout about 80% complete (I'd post some pics except I have no hosting service and don't desire one). It depicts my Frisco/MoPac/T&P interests. I am very selective about what I buy in scale proportions. I cannot, alas! insist upon protyptical accuracy since Lionel steadfastly refuses to make very much in those roadnames that is accurate or in my chosen era (between the wars).
I actively seek Marx 8-wheel plastic/De-lux, but only a very few items on the to-buy list, mostly boxed sets and a few more accessories. I don't want everything Marx, just a representation. I hope to build a Marx display layout or perhaps a display layout that coulda been had Marx been just a little less parsimonious with their displays. My first train was a Marx set, and it still gets to exercise at least once/year.
I have a very small MPC collection--everything Frisco/MoPac/T&P plus a few other pieces and my first Lionel set, which also gets run at least once/year. I have a collection of Lionel Shell pieces that honors my grandfather, who bought me both of those early trains and who worked his adult life for Shell (including working as part of the support team they provided to Jimmy Doolittle when he was testing their fuels and lubes during his barnstorming).
I also have a box of HO stored under the layout that results from the third train my grandfather bought me, a Tyco Chattanogga Choo-Choo. I keep it all for sentimental reasons but have no interest in working in HO anymore.
I once dabbled in G/F scales, not outside but inside. The only time I could set up a really nifty layout was at work at Christmastime on our auditorium stage. I really liked the size and the possibilities, but I just had not way to keep up my interest, so I sold it all.
I have had two periods of Standard/Wide gauge collecting/operating. Once was several years ago. I dabbled in a little Lionel and IVES, and I put the one running set under the Christmas tree, but I didn't know enough, and I didn't wait patiently to spend my $$$ on better stuff but just grabbed whatever popped up. I eventually sold that out, too (which I have come to regret), but I dived back in a few years ago, and I had learned more, so I have been more selective, and I also discovered the joys of Flyer WG. Everything runs, this time, and the pieces are in better considiton, because I have become a more savvy buyer. I am still limited for now to running them under the Christmas tree, but there will be a time, LORD willing . . . .
I buy almost nothing new. I wait to get my scale stuff years after they come out. Guys who buy them new tire of them or need to sell for space/funds for the Latest/Greatest (tm). I don't care: the wait is not damaging to me or the trains. No one is making new Marx--and, though I admire Jim and Debbi Flyyn (from whom I buy SG stuff from time to time), I want original Marx. Likewise, I want original SG/WG. I have some repaints/restoration--I did a poor, mistreated #437 Switch Tower myself--but most of my stuff is untouched by anything other than repairs. Of course, it's all C6-range in condition except for a few accessories in truly C7/C8 condition, but I don't mind. All those scratches and nicks reveal a toy loved by someone and now by me, and I run them all because that is what they were made for. I'd run a C10 piece if I had one.
I am drawn to MPC, Marx, and SG/WG by simplicity, reliability, and history. My IVES set turns 100 in two years. How cool is that! I am not afflicted with the common USian disease of Novelitis: I do not need new/improved, full of geegaws and doodads ready to fail (as is the case wth EVERY one of my TMCC/Legacy engines). I put the Marx or the SG/WG onthe track, move the throttle, and they run. Sure, they need care and maintenance, but they don't just sit there blinking at me or otherwise disappoint.
My budgets are tight: I use the plural because I have to budget both money and space. The Flyer WG set I got for Christmas required rebulding my big shelves in the living room (my wife is a real catch! She is the On30 person in the family and has room on the hi-rail layout). Someday I might have to sell something again (I have sold off 2 Lionel collections, one G/F, and one SG already). My older son has his trains on the hi-rail layout. Until he builds his onw, I am committed to it, but, once he moves on, it may get a remodel, and most of the scalish stuff may go. Whoo-hoo! A perminent SG/WG pike!
I didn't intend to be this long, and I really could go on with other points and more detail, but I guess this covers most of the territory.
palallin I admire Jim and Debbi Flyyn
Did you know Jim Flynn has a YouTube channel? Maybe you do but just in case you didn't (or anyone else) here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/@JFLionelT-RailOperator/featured
Every once in a while those VERY elegant Marx trains he and Debbie made back in the 90's show up too! I "kinda-sorta" wish I'd gotten a set back then but they just didn't interest me at the time. No biggie, I'm not losing sleep over it.
Wide variety of interests here,keeps things fresh and interesting!
I did not know, Flintlock; thank you!
philo426 Wide variety of interests here,keeps things fresh and interesting!
A blessing and a curse, both of which I can stand And youhave nailed it: empahsis shifts from time to time. BUT I have sworn not to give up on SG/WG this time.
Good to hear!
palallin I did not know, Flintlock; thank you!
You're very welcome! Enjoy the binge-watch! There's some fine film making to be seen!
As pertaining to toy trains, I have one base philosophy:
I am the current caretaker of my collection.
As far as my ideals, they currently center around having pretty trains traveling through a pretty, turn-of-the-century era layout.
Cool!any pics or vids?
My collection guidelines are fairly simple. I'm a user and not a collector. I'm Lionel postwar focused and generally collect from that era, although my locos go from 1933 to 2013. And some are not Lionel. I have a range to get a sampling of the construction techniques, features and technology that evolved over the years, and sometimes, just nice looks or a good deal.
Every buy has to be for use, running on the layout. No pure shelf queen. So I buy nice looking items, though not perfect and not unused. When running or to a casual observer they look almost new when I get done with my restoration after buying.
I ususally play a waiting game to get the best value.
I have one particular focus. I bought the Lionel 1950 catalog (birth year for me). and have bought everything in that catalog that interested me, and that's most everything. I also like lights, smoke, sounds and motion and operating cars.
My most recent buy was the 342/345 culvert loader/unloader accessory, not 1950 of course, but the last big accesory of the Lionel postwar era.
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