Trains.com

Lionel 4-4-0 valve gear

1541 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 115 posts
Lionel 4-4-0 valve gear
Posted by the nitro man on Wednesday, October 26, 2022 7:22 PM

I recently bought a Lionel James Gang set and a Redwood Valley set. They look great, but the valve gear is lack luster to put it lightly. Both engines have one rod from the back wheel to the steam chest on each side. I want to replace the cheap valve gear with the better looking valve gear that came on the higher end Lionel General type locomotives. I'm having a hard time finding the part numbers to look for. I know the front drive wheels will need to be drilled and tapped (no biggie) but does anyone know the part numbers for the valve gear and screws?

Thanks for any help. 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,049 posts
Posted by fifedog on Thursday, October 27, 2022 7:20 AM

The only "ornamental" pieces missing are the steam pipe, and boiler bands, and you can get them from any Lionel parts seller. Your shells may have holes there to snap them into place. (I have avoided the DC Generals, so not sure).

Either way, please post your progress, as I'm a General enthusiast.Yes

  • Member since
    February 2014
  • 520 posts
Posted by Leverettrailfan on Thursday, October 27, 2022 9:37 AM

I think you mean drive rods... the Generals never had any valve gear. I believe the prototypes had valve gearing located inside the frame.
I'll go check my Lionel service manual and get back to you.

-Ellie

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

  • Member since
    February 2014
  • 520 posts
Posted by Leverettrailfan on Thursday, October 27, 2022 10:32 AM

OK- here we go
The screw for the rear drivers is "short shoulder screw" 1862-114
The screw for the front drivers is "long shoulder screw" 1862-113
The drive rods are 1862-17 for the connecting rod between the drivers, and 1862-18 for the rods to the pistons. 
Hope this helps!


-Ellie

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, October 27, 2022 2:36 PM

For what it's worth, this is what the real "General" looked like as built.

http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/trainsim/rogers/general1.jpg

And after the 1962 restoration by the Louisville & Nashville RR.

http://www.kennesaw.com/attractions/the-general/

The "General" hasn't been run since the end of the Civil War Centennial in 1965.  Supposedly it's still operable but not likely to be run at any time in the future.

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • 115 posts
Posted by Vintagesteamer on Thursday, October 27, 2022 4:53 PM

Correct, the actual General had its Stephenson valve gear inside the frames, mostly out of sight, with only the rocking shafts and valve spindles outside the frame.  I have seen DC Generals that the front driver quartering did not match the rear so adding the side rod between the two driven axles would not be such a simple job.  Not impossbile, but a wee bit more work for it to function properly.  I wanted the James gang set when I was a kid, I got the Atlantic Coast Line DC powered set from Sears instead.    

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 115 posts
Posted by the nitro man on Thursday, October 27, 2022 5:09 PM

Drive rods, that is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much. 

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 115 posts
Posted by the nitro man on Thursday, October 27, 2022 5:29 PM

Vintagesteamer, I've noticed that about the wheels not being timed correctly with each other in some pictures online. I haven't checked mine yet. I think I can take the plastic wheel inserts out and re-glue them where they need to be. Even if I screw them up, I can get replacements and just airbrush them all to match. I'm hoping I got lucky with their timing on mine, as from what I've seen some are & some are not.

Funny, I got the Atlantic Coast Line set too (The Cannonball Freight) for Christmas in 80 or 81. I just had to replace the motor in the 8902 a few weeks back. 

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 115 posts
Posted by the nitro man on Saturday, November 5, 2022 8:44 PM

Can someone please tell me how to add a picture? Can I upload it from my phone, or does it have to be hosted? I have the Redwood Valley 4&4-0 done. Took more work than I expected, but turned out nice. 

  • Member since
    February 2014
  • 520 posts
Posted by Leverettrailfan on Saturday, November 5, 2022 8:55 PM

Unfortunately, the image has to be hosted somewhere online. It can be a bit of a pain trying to embed images to this forum. Something important to keep in mind, is that the image embed will only work if the url is for the image itself. Often you have to right click the image you want to embed, and select the option "open image in new tab" (or some similar message to that).

I'm very excited to see how things went.

-Ellie

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 115 posts
Posted by the nitro man on Saturday, November 5, 2022 9:15 PM

I had to replace the bell and sand dome because the handrail pieces was broken. I replaced the sliding shoe center rail pickups with rollers and upgraded the drivers from the one piece cheap looking design. I have the whistle for it, I just haven't installed it yet.it was a learning curve for sure. The James Gang 4-4-0 will be a lot easier. I'm using a bridge rectifier between the zw275 and the track to run this DC locomotive. 

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/MzEdk3DLinc?feature=share

  • Member since
    February 2014
  • 520 posts
Posted by Leverettrailfan on Saturday, November 5, 2022 11:54 PM

Here's your vid as an embed:

Making video embeds work here requires some extra effort, it's a bit of a hassle.

That engine looks fantastic! Running great too. And it sounds like you really gave it the full upgrade all 'round!

-Ellie

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 6, 2022 6:43 AM

Great looking engine!  I just love those old-timers!  

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,049 posts
Posted by fifedog on Sunday, November 6, 2022 7:41 AM

Good puller! I would have liked to seen some footage of the modifications you made. Thanks for sharing.Yes

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • 1,512 posts
Posted by philo426 on Sunday, November 6, 2022 8:35 AM

Really running well and it does not struggle with it's consist;very well done!

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month