Hello. I'm researching my father's prewar American Flyer train set. The engine appears to identify as #616 from Greenberg's Guide (first edition). The engine also appears in the 1932 A.F. catalog heading the 941-T Dictator set. The three cars that follow it are spot on except for the color. My Dad's cars are green with red roofs and orange trim around the windows. These cars appear in the wind-up set #80 Empire City also in the '32 catalog. The tender has "Champion" on the sides.
Can anyone out there determine what year the set was made?
aboard!
Same me, different spelling!
Can you post a pic or 2? I'll try later based on what you have mentioned.
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
AF53 Can you post a pic or 2? I'll try later based on what you have mentioned. yes I will try and figure out how to post some pictures.
Set up an account with Shutterfly and then follow Bob's tips in this thread: https://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/270990.aspx
Note: Since I started doing most of my surfing on an Android phone, I've only been able to post a link to the photos on Shutterfly rather than insert the images directly into the CTT Forum thread. The link codes I get in the Shutterfly app aren't compatible with the "Insert image link" function here on the forum. It only works right on my PC.
The side rods on the engine have been removed.
or perhaps it's the valve gear that's missing.
I think it's actually the valve gear that's missing from above the side rod. I looks as though someone sawed off the rivet holding it on because there are saw abrasions on the side rod.
Thank you for your interest in helping me. I actually went through imgur to post the pictures.
Hello. Thank you for your interest in helping me. Did you get a chance to view the pictures I posted?
Hopefully Northwoods will chime in here... one of our resident prewar Flyer enthusiasts!-Ellie
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
Hi trainsrfun,
I have both editions of the Greenberg guide and it is interesting to see that the information about your engine differs in each edition. Generally the second edition by Schuweiler has better information and uses a different identification system for engines.
There is no 616 listed in the second edition and I am not able to identify your engine. Is your engine sheet metal or die cast? It looks to be sheet metal. The illustration in the 1932 catalog looks like your engine and I think that your assessment is correct that someone cut down the side rods. The copper top of the boiler and the engine cab also have me puzzled. I've never seen that before
I have a set of cars exactly like yours that came with a different engine, which I don't think started out life together. Was your father the first owner of the of the set? I think that a good guess would be that the equipment is from circa 1932. During that era American Flyer marketed their trains through a number of store accounts and other catalog companies. I don't have access to those resources to do the research. Mersenne6 and NationWideLines are both much more familiar with that area of American Flyer production and marketing.
There is a set of cars that come with a #614 and the same green cars but with orange roofs that have rounded or square roofs. I have a set of each of those cars, and I know that Mersenne 6 has an identical set.
I'm not sure how heplful this information is but if I find out anything else I will be sure to share it with you.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
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The engine superstructure and tender are identical to the engine pictured with The Dictator over on page 7 of Northwood's American Flyer thread. The motor, however, looks to be different. As for the valve gear, I agree, it looks like someone cut down the valve gear on the engine on the Flyer thread.
Thank you for responding. Yes the engine is sheet metal and it has two roller pickups underneath it (although one is missing). I took it apart and cleaned and oiled it and got it running again! It's a well made toy that's for sure.
Yes my Dad is the original owner. He was born in '26 so that makes him six years old in '32. It's possible that it came from Sears because that's where my Grandma worked.
Thank you for responding. It seems to be that it was given to my Dad in '32 or later. I don't know if I'll ever be able to pinpoint the exact year.
The top of the boiler and engine cab are sheet metal not copper. I think it's the reflection of the flash in the photo that makes it appear copper.
The thing to remember with Flyer is they would "build to suit" - in other words, if you were a major retail customer and you liked something in the catalog but you wanted a lower price point or something added to the set Flyer would oblige you. As has been noted by NWL your engine appears to match the description of one of the variations of the Type XVIII Champion locomotive with an initial catalog offering date of 1932.
You should also bear in mind 1932 was rock bottom - the Great Depression was in full swing so slow moving inventory would have been the rule of the day. What that would mean is the XVIII engine and various other toy train components with a catalog offering of any given year would have been sold for as long as there was inventory to sell - in other words - well past the time they may have been shown in the catalog.
My guess is your set was sold in 1932 or later. I suspect this will be the best you can do with respect to identifying a build date. The fact of the difference in the litho treatment of the car bodies when compared to the catalog cut for the Dictator is nothing more than Flyer either using up old existing inventory or putting together a set for a retail customer with some substitutions.
AF forever!
Ok thanks so much for your help! I appreciate your time and insight.
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