Compatibility between Lionel/Williams and sources of truth

[rrlcommish]

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to O-Gauge (coming over from HO) so I appreciate any advice.  I currently have a Lionel layout with just a single steam loco, conventional operation.  I want to delve further in, and I see that Williams by Bachmann seems to make nice, affordable locos.  But is their True Blast compatible with my CW-80 Lionel transformer?  How would that work if so?  Or do I need Bachmann equipment?  Same for MTH stuff, sounds like I need dedicated equipment?  Just having trouble sorting it all out.  Also, is there a good comparison (website, YouTube video) that compares all the O-Gauge brands, how they work and compatibilities?

[fifedog]

I have a Williams/Bachman 4-6-0, as well as a GP30. I run them on a layout with Lionel tubular track, Ross custom track, Atlas Industrial Rail. My main controller is a MTH Z4000, and I also have used Lionel KW, AND CW80 controllers. Everything runs with no issues.

[Flintlock76]

I've had Williams engines for years and they'll run with any brand of power source for AC engines out there, Lionel, MTH, what have you. 

Hard to beat Williams for value, they're simple, rugged, and reliable.  I only wish they made more of them!  The product line now isn't as big as it used to be, but it's easy to find the older varieties at train shows, many new in the box and unused.

[Leverettrailfan]

I see you especially were curious about the sound systems the trains use. Thankfully for the most part, the technology used for O gauge 3 rail trains is 'back-compatible', so the same systems built to operate trains in the 1950s can operate conventional  O gauge trains made in modern times. The "horn/whistle" control was originally devised to actuate a relay in a locomotive or tender, which would actuate in turn either a simple buzzer (horn) or fan-driven whistle. Because the trains were powered by AC, they cleverly realized that you could use DC as a means to remotely control a feature on a train through use of a relay. The relay will only trip if it is fed DC, so under normal conditions, it will not trip. But if a little DC were sent to the track, it would trip the relay.
The system is still used today to actuate whistles and horn sounds in AC powered trains, so anything you purchase should happily operate with your transformer. Just be especially careful that you have the polarity of the wiring to the track correct, because the modern addition of an electronic bell also means that now there are two types of DC "signal" that is used to trip a sound feature. I believe that the "bell" button uses the opposite polarity of DC as the whistle. If you have the wiring backwards it won't hurt your trains, but it will mean that the "whistle" button does nothing, and pressing the "bell" button will cause the whistle/horn to sound for a fixed, uncomfortably long blast when you press it (based on some past experience with operating some newer trains several years ago. These days almost everything I have is vintage, old stuff).

Everyone is right, Williams by Bachmann and MTH are absolutely compatable with your Lionel equipment.
Though if I remember right, the Williams "True Blast" sound is a prexisting recording of a fixed length, so you can't control how long or short you want to sound your whistle/horn on locomotives with True Blast.

Hope this helps!
-Ellie

[Flintlock76]

Leverettrailfan

Though if I remember right, the Williams "True Blast" sound is a prexisting recording of a fixed length, so you can't control how long or short you want to sound your whistle/horn on locomotives with True Blast.

With the Williams diesels it depends on when it was made.  Older Williams will have an electronic horn that make a "beep" sound similar to the old Lionel bicycle horn sound.  Later ones will have a pre-recorded "long-long-short-long" horn sound, Williams steam engines will have a whistle recording that does the same.

Current production True-Blast Williams diesels have a diesel engine sound and the horn's not pre-recorded, each push of the horn/whistle button on the transformer gives a single blast per push.  I don't know what the current steam True-Blast unit does, I haven't heard one yet and the add-on/replacement unit hasn't been available for over a year.  I don't know if it's discontinued or what.

Just to add, the True-Blast systems have a bell sound that rings continuously and stops with a second button push.

[rrlcommish]

Thank you everyone for your replies.  I have one more question...I heard that some times you have to "upgrade" your CW-80 transformer to get sounds to work right?  Admittedly, I am not sure whether my CW-80 is "newer" or "older", I got it with my Polar Express set in 2008.  Anyone know?

[Flintlock76]

I've got a CW-80 that came with a NJ Transit set I bought just about the same time you bought your Polar Express set.  I've run everything with it at one time or another and had no problems with function or sounds.

I should add I run my layout with MTH Z-1000 transformers, I prefer them to the CW-80.  Everything I run likes the Z-1000, no problems with that one either and it's got more power than the CW-80.  

Mind you, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the CW-80, it's a good transformer for starter sets.

[BigAl 956]

rrlcommish

I heard that some times you have to "upgrade" your CW-80 transformer to get sounds to work right? 

You should not have to upgrade the CW80 to get the basic horn and bell sounds to work. Older Lionel Postwar transformers like a ZW or KW have the potential to burn out modern electronics. Some will reccomend adding a circuit breaker or TVS diode modification to those older transformers when using them with modern engines with electronic circuitry. However your modern CW80 should already have that type of circuit protection built into it.

[ADCX Rob]

BigAl 956

However your modern CW80 should already have that type of circuit protection built into it.

The ZW and KW have all of the same Transient Voltage Suppression as the CW does(which is NONE).

New modern transformers have the same potential as older Lionel postwar transformers like a ZW or KW to "burn out" modern electronics.

The breakers are to protect the transformers.

[BigAl 956]

 While Postwar style transformers lacked modern circuit protection circuitry. Lionel builds circuit and derailment protection into the modern transformers like the CW80. 

Refer to the latest catalog or the product description on the Lionel site.

http://www.lionel.com/products/cw80-transformer-new-improved-1908080/

 

 

[ADCX Rob]

BigAl 956

Lionel builds circuit and derailment protection into the modern transformers like the CW80.

This is just puffery. There's nothing special or new in the new CW to protect trains, this is to protect only the transformer from overloads.