Lionel 65 project

[Leverettrailfan]

Well, I've done it again. And to make matters worse, it was an eBay purchase (shudder).
I'm pretty sure this listing has been out there for a very long time, for a Lionel hand car in predictably terrible condition. I think I've seen it in the past but it never could quite grab me. But I stumbled into it again and couldn't resist. 
So yes. I'm the sucker who went for it 

I really try to avoid depleting my train funds in the ~two months before the local train show (no torture like perusing vendors' tables with an empty wallet!)
But as happens, I had the 65 on my mental radar too recently, and couldn't resist the pull of gravity this time 

I'm crossing my fingers that the motor isn't fried- I handled a guy's 0055 M&StL HO switcher which had burnt out at least one winding, and the heat had noticably warped and melted the shell. I don't see any signs of melting and warping on the plastic body of this 65, around the motor, which suggests to me that it hasn't burnt out. Not to be confused with the usual chemical melting damage from the vinyl rubber workmen, which is present.

My current plan is as follows:
-inspect shell and chassis to get a sense for how bad it is, and what I need to do (my standard procedure for any old train)
-set the shell aside, possibly clean it and tidy up some of the malformed plastic from the trademark chemical 'melting' that affects these cars
-Break down the chassis as much as possible to access and clean everything
-Service the motor
-Reassemble chassis

What I have not decided yet, is exactly how I plan to tackle the shell.
My options are:
-Buy an authentic reproduction 65 shell for a hair under twice the cost of my chassis
-Buy an early LTI (screw mounting) chassis, and modify it to accept the 65 chassis
-Buy any cheap handcar shell, and carefully cut and splice to repair the remaining 65 shell. If color is a close match, maybe leave unpainted. Otherwise, repair shell, prime it, and repaint it. In that case, clearly mark it somehow to prevent it being mistaken for an original, complete 65 shell.

Personally, I'm interested most in option #3, but I will resort to option #2 if I decide it's not within my abilities. The reproduction 65 shells are just too expensive for me to justify buying one, so option 1 is a "no go".

In theory, it should be on my doorstep some time mid-next week, but we'll see. I just hope I'm not horrified by what I find when I get to work!
...though I suppose the images in the listing wouldn't inspire confidence in your average collector...


Wish me luck, I clearly need it 

-Ellie

[rlplionel]

Looks like a good project, Ellie. Best of luck!

I repaired the chemical melting on my handcar using JB Weld, then touched up the paint to match. Cutting and splicing is a good plan for the other missing plastic parts.

Robert

http://robertstrains.com/

[Leverettrailfan]

I had a look at your car just now- you certainly had a nicer one to start with! Or at least it looks that way.

I wasn't yet decided on how to deal with the melt damage, the idea of JB weld never ocurred to me but it's definitely a possibility. I was leaning towards cutting and splicing in new end platforms! I'm reasonably handy with a file and an X-acto knift, replacing the melted material with an epoxy of some sort and making it look nice should be within my capabilities if I go that route.

Looks like I should be getting my car in tomorrow! I'm very excited, and also of course still nervous I may have wound up with a disaster worse than expected. As before, wish me luck!

-Ellie

[Leverettrailfan]

Lo and behold, the handcar arrived this morning- much earlier than we usually get the mail, too. How about that!
Having a general look over, things are a bit worse off than I previously thought from the listing photos, however at the moment I'm still not convinced it's beyond repair. It should have been obvious from the lack of screws holding the body to the chassis, and the screw sticking out the top, that someone had been inside already. Well, they definitely didn't know what they were doing, and/or were very careless. When reassembling, they put the drive axle in backwards, which caused the retaining tab on the plastic insulating bottom to snap off. This also resulted in the worm not meshing with the drive gear, and the gear that drives the pump handle not only is not engaged with its gear, but actually prevents the insulating plate (and by that result, the drive axle too) from being returned to its correct position. Rather than realizing this, whoever put it back together instead decided to force it. Not exactly the brightest move. With any luck, I can save it (maybe build a new tab out of styrene??). 
Now, the motor... that's going to be interesting. I haven't dared power it yet, but the armature shaft does not spin freely. I'm hoping and praying this issue came after it was put away for an extended period of time, and nobody's tried to power it on (at least not for more than a second or two). It doesn't smell of burnt out motor, but we'll see. I'm aassuming the rectifier is probably toast, but we'll see if it still works.


There's a fair bit missing, but I'd say the key (least replacable) parts are all present. Honestly, just about the only parts that I don't think I could figure out replacement for are the motor, motor mount, and possibly the frame. It seems like most everything else is interchangable with some later generations (though all later hand car shells need some level of modification to accomodate the motor, and modern shells need the screw holes re-opened).

I suppose I'll probably make it my first order of business to get the motor out of the frame and get busy with it.
The keen observer will note I removed that screw that was sticking up, and discovered one of the screws inserted into the motor was the wrong screw- it didn't remotely hold at all. The correct screw was the one stuck in the top of the motor, so I just put it back where it belonged. Not sure what the previous owner was thinking with that move.

More news as the story develops...

-Ellie

[Leverettrailfan]

Well, it looks like I got burned. The motor too, for that matter.

I have a clear picture now, unfortunately it couldn't have come too late.
When messing up the reassembly, whoever put the car back together bent the armature shaft coming out of the motor. This explains why it wasn't spinning freely. Now, they presumably tried to run it... and it was binding. Regardless of exactly how it happened, the motor overheated and burned off its enamel coating on at least one winding, enough to cause one of the wires to melt/snap apart.

As far as I can tell, that makes it realistically completely unsalvagable. I don't know of any sure fire way to fix a bent armature, even if I did decide to try re-winding the motor. I don't see any suitable substitute/donor HO motors on the 'bay that have a long enough shaft on the correct end, so this is the end of the road I guess. I could have had it worse, but it is still quite vexing.
I wouldn't have had any way of knowing though- the listing pictures don't show any clear evidence the drive axle was installed incorrect, and even so, it wouldn't have been possible to see the armature was bent- it was so slight that I couldn't see it until I had the motor out and was able to spin the shaft.
And of course, you can't spot burnt windings if they're not visible.

It's sensible to give up, but that's not something I'm very good at. I've begun trying to get the armature bent back as close as I can get it to where it should be. I think I'm going to try to rewind the motor.
Does anyone have advice on how to rewind motors? I'm not exactly sure what the wire gauge is here, so I think I'm going to have to do some guess work and settle on a wire gauge that I know was used on some sort of HO locomotive. I'm debating if I need to count the turns on a still intact winding, or if I can just buy magnet wire and have a good guess at how many turns it needs.

Thoughts? Anything welcome. I was planning on getting a motor that just needed some lube and a clean, and ended up with my worst case scenario and then some! I would really appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks!
-Ellie