Advice on Passanger Cars?

[Frank53]

I have a very nice set of post war New York Central Diesels - one powered one dummy. These are the original trains we had in my home in the 50's.

I am wanting to use these in a passanger train, but of course we never had passanger cars. Leafing through Greenbergs, I see no NYC passanger car sets from that time, and I really want to only add to this equipment with post war (early 50's) material.

Can anyone offer a suggestion regarding a good complimentary set of cars? I will then sail the Bay of E in search of the right combination.

thanks

[Anonymous]

Frank,

i too would love nothing more than a set of silver streamliners to
compliment my silver 2023 Alco's, but , as i'm sure you are aware,
other than locomotives, passenger cars are RIDICULOUSLY expensive !!!
[boxcars, are another example, just on a different level,] spose it all
has to do with the popularity.......
figure if i ever 'pull the trigger' it will HAVE to be a set from the modern -era.

sorry i didn't have any advice, and it wasn't necessarily a relevant post.
good luck on research and your 'sailing'... ! [;)]

driver8
on the BNSF mainline

[Anonymous]

Williams offers very nice New York Central cars that would match the NYC LIonel AA diesel perfectly. The cars are an exact match for Lionel with aluminum construction and are painted and lettered for the New York Central. They are available in model form to replicate the 72 ft. and 60 ft. cars. Lionel models are close to the 60 ft. cars. Williams cars are priced right and are very well constructed.

Visit www.williamstrains.com and view the pictures of the available cars.

There are several dealers on the internet that have very attractive prices on Williams products. Two dealers specialize in Williams and always have the line discounted. Williams has a good reputation for reliability and often their products will show up on eBay. If the cars appear to be in excellent condition on eBay they should last you a lifetime.

Williams also offers the 0-27 passenger cars that are an exact match to the Lionel 2023 Union Pacific diesels. You can see pictures of these cars at their website under the Golden Memory series. Many dealers have the loose car sets for sale and you will find them on eBay as they are just now starting to show up on dealers shelves.

[laz 57]

Look in the classified section in yor latest CTT.
Look under GRZBOSKIS in Scranton Pa. they have a break up set of three cars form th Lionel Stater NYC LT set. The car have the lightning bolt and are really neat looking. My brother got two sets at York this year so ho has two powered LTs and the six cars he also got the Lionel 2 pack of NYC to top it off all for $450, not too bad. I think the break up set is going for $99?
Laz57

[Chris F]

Frank,

Lionel did not make passenger cars for the NYC F-3's . As far as I can tell, Lionel never offered passenger cars of any kind in a set with NYC F-3's. Some dealers may have passenger sets together their local customers.
The Santa Fe F-3's did come with 2500-series extruded aluminum passenger cars labeled "Lionel Lines". If you want to stick with Postwar cars, you would look for the following:

2530 Railway Express Agency baggage car (1954-60) ($90/165)
2531 "Silver Dawn" observation car (1952-60) ($65/135)
2532 "Silver Range" Vista-dome car (1952-60) ($55/125)
2533 "Silver Cloud" Pullman (1952-1959) ($50/110)
2534 "Silver Bluff" Pullman (1952-1959) ($70/145)

Dollar values are from the Greenberg's Price Guide, 2005, and are for good/excellent condition. Good = scratched, small dents, dirty; Excellent = minute scratches or nicks, no dents or rust, exceptionally clean. The biggest problem you'll have is agreeing with the seller regarding condition.

To determine the approximate age of your diesels, look at the number on the numberboards in the front:
2333 1948-49
2344 1950-52
2354 1953-55

BTW, I'm currently restoring a 1951 version.

Williams does offer extruded aluminum passenger cars labeled and painted for the NYC. However, the 4-car set (#LL1004, $299.95) is not listed as in stock or available for backorder (visit the Bay of E?). The 2-car add-on set (#LL1004AO, $149.95) is available.

[Anonymous]

What about the short plastic streamlined passenger cars?

[Anonymous]

Ma & Pa Junction in Baltimore Md. not only has the Williams New York Central 72. ft aluminum cars in stock, they have the set of four cars on sale for $169 with free shipping. This is cheaper than I have seen them selling on eBay.

Ma & Pa probably has the largest inventory of Williams of any shop, pretty much specializing in Williams products. It's rare when they are out of anything, and always has a substantial discount on even the latest Golden Memories Series trains which are selling out at most shops. They have a website that is kept up to date and a great reputation for quick delivery and quality service.

[Anonymous]

The lionel F3 from the 50's are very close to scale size so they would look best with premium passenger cars. The only thing I have found to be out of scale on them is the height of the the windsheild. They look quite compressed when compared to the other scale ones out there. I would recommend the williams cars too as they are nice and not super expensive. Dave.

[hookedontrains]

If I recall correctly, AMT made some very nice aluminum ribbed cars for the NYC. In fact, it as been reported that Lionel used these AMT cars in their advertizing prior to Lionel's own production becoming available.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Ma and Pa have gotten really good compliments by many people who post regularly on this forum. I have not seen one complaint.

Train City in Erie, PA might be a good source for passenger cars. All they really handle are used trains. (They have some sets that they sell for Christmas.) I have visited their store, and they seem to be very customer friendly. The prices for the items I purchased were very reasonable.

www.traincity.com

[Frank53]

thank you for all of the rsponses. I'm going to pass on the Williams cars as I really want the cars to be the same era and Lionel - a set that could have been assembled in the 50s. I am going to see what I can find in the 235X Series mentioned above.

Chris:

I checked the set you mentioned in Greenberg's and I like them a lot - likewise the Presidential Series, although I think the yellow highlight on the Presidential cars would be out of place.

Curious on my NYC Diesels - the front nameplate displays 2344, which would make sense regarding when my Dad purchased them. They feature teh wire me***op vent.

However, I do have one original box and it is marked 2333T.

Also, molded on the underside of each is teh designation 2333-20.

Can you shed any light on this?

I would like to pick up the "C" center unit as well, but have never seen one.

any help on this series appreciated.

[Frank53]

also thanks everyone for the links. Just hit TrainCIty and they have a few of the set in question - but are offered as "VG" and one makes note of a missing nameplate - not what I had in mind. This is probably going to be a quite the chore. I would lean toward EX or LN as these are sure to be one of teh focal points of my layout.

[Anonymous]

The chassis is correct with the 2333 number, same with the box. That was the number for the first of the Santa Fe F-3 diesels and the casting number and box designation remained throughout the 2333,2343, 2344 series SF and NYC diesels.

You have the 2344 series, which is one of LIonel's best running diesels. The Santa Fe came as the 2343, NYC 2344. Other diesels in the series came out as 2353 up to 2373.

eBay will be the place to look for the original Lionel Lines aluminum cars. Shops wil have them as well as stores that advertise on-line, but usually eBay will have the best prices. Condition is everything with these cars as the aluminum can get scuffed up pretty easily if not cared for.

The B unit (center unit) shouldn't be too difficult to find. They show up on eBay occasionally. Since Lionel came out very recently with the highly detailed version of the New York Central F3 ABA set there have been more of the older NYC F3's show up for sale.

The 2530 series of extruded cars have been selling the past few years in the $75 price range per car if in nice shape. They once were quite a bit more expensive but when Williams came out with the identical cars years ago the operators fled to Williams leaving mostly collectors with the Lionel cars. You should find a nice selection of the O gauge LIonel cars on eBay.

The Presidential Series of 2530 type cars came out with the GG1 electric locomotive. It would look unusual to be with the NYC diesels.

Fortunately you are looking for the most common of all the extruded cars and you'll find a good selection to choose from.

Lionel still makes these cars in identical form to what they did in the 50's. Different numbers, but same body casting, some with added details and interiors.

Good luck.

[Chris F]

The Presidential cars were first offered in 1962, long after the NYC F-3's were discontinued. The Silver-series cars were contemporary with your 2344's. Although the Presidential cars were included in a set headed by a GG-1 in 1962, they also were included in three sets headed by a Santa Fe F-3 each year from 1962 to 1966.

murrieta provided the answer to your 2333 vs. 2344 question. In "Lionelese", the "T" (Tender) designation was for the unpowered A unit.

When looking for a B unit (2344C, for "Center"), make sure it has the wire mesh roof vents. The version offered 1953-55 had molded-in louvers. If you really, really want a match, look at the porthole lenses. 1950-51 units used celluloid plastic that tended to yellow. 1951-52 units used a different plastic that didn't yellow. 2005 Greenberg valuation is $130/275, regardless of detail differences.

Good luck in your quest![:)]

[palallin]

MPC DID make a set of aluminum cars in the proper colors sometime in the early '80s, I think (I don't have my books handy).

[Chris F]

palallin, the MPC NYC extruded aluminum cars were numbered 9594-9598, inclusive, and were offered in 1983-84. Additional cars were the 7207 Diner (1983 add-on) and the 19137 Dunkirk Harbor Duplex Roomette (1995, 11 years later!).

Frank53, a couple of things extra on the passenger cars -

If you really, really ([:D]) want to match the cars with your '50-'52 locos, you'll want to avoid the flat-channel versions. A change was made in '55 from ribbed sides to flat channels above and below the windows to allow for placement of strips, like the gold strips on the Presidential cars.

FWIW, the Lionel Lines extruded aluminum cars that I have are from 1996 (Super Chief set #19165, REA baggage, Vista-Dome Silver Sky, passenger car Silver Mesa, and observation car Silver Rail), and from 2003 (2-car Add-on set #15318, Silver Valey combo car and Silver Spoon diner). The nameplates are glued on, not riveted.