Proto 2 engines not remembered after power loss to track

[LarryGee]

I have a number of Proto 2 engines but two are never remembered in the DCC system after track power is turned off.

If I power up and "add engine," then the loco fires up and runs great, even if I shut down and start up again.

But if I turn off track power, the engine no longer shows as active unless I add it once again.

Any idea what is causing this and the fix?

[Flintlock76]

Just a wild guess, but how old are the batteries in the engines?  Old batteries can cause strange stuff in Proto 2 engines. 

I say "wild guess" because I run strictly conventional, I don't use DCC or any other form of exotic control.  I have  purchased NOS Proto 2 engines that took a while to come to life when I powered them up due to old batteries.  Even Proto 2 engines I bought new had batteries go bad after a few years.

I solved the problem by replacing all the batteries with BCC components.  They work great, about 45 to 60 seconds of track power and you're ready to go.  

[wrmcclellan]

This is a common problem. Agreed batteries are the first thing to check.

You have to make sure you have the correct batteries or as Flintlock suggests you can replace the batteries with BCR's from 

www.jandwelectronics.com

Note there are two styles of battery replacement depending on the circuitry. Older PS2 locos use a "9 volt" version and the newer PS2 locos use the lower power electronics "3 volt" version.

If you buy off the shelf 9 volt rechargable batteries you must make sure it is an 8.4 volt "pile" (term for the collection of cells in the battery) and not the 7.6 volt "pile". The "9v" battery is usually labeled 8.4 or 7.6 volt. The 7.6 volt battery as it discharges goes from around 9 volts fully charged to 7.6 volts and below and can cause problems to the MTH electronics at low voltage. if you have the original MTH "9v" battery you will see it is labled 8.4 v.

You can also check the revision of the software in the DCS system. Most software revisions improved the "finding" of locos on the track. Similar changes were made in the TIU hardware. Additionally the software in the TIU can become corrupted every once in a while due to shorts/derailments so reloading it can resolve issues

The remote when turned on will display the version (current version is 6.10). To check the TIU version you have to turn on the DCS, go to SYSTEM, and then go to TIU, and then to TIU version (I may have missed a step - doing this from memory). The TIU and Remote versions need to match for best remote to TIU performance.

You might consider upgrading your TIU and remote software if you do not have the latest. It is easy to do and searching on MTH TIU Upgrade will reveal lots of help on the process. You will need a USB to RS-232 cable/adapter (for all TIU hardware revisions up through I3a) and a USB cable for TIU revision L, a telephone handset cable (smaller 4 pin to 4 pin phone plug than the cable from phone base to the wall, and a stereo subminiature male-to-male cable. The software and MTH Loader v5 program is available for free from MTH's website. You do have to enter your name and info to download.

You could also see if there is a local train club/society as there is usually someone willing to do the upgrades for you.

Also useful is the hardware version (black tag on bottom of the TIU). The latest version is Rev L. Rev L made major improvements to track signal. There is no way to upgrade the TIU hardware - you have to buy a newer version.

[wrmcclellan]

Some links:

https://mthtrains.com/dcs-version-610-software-upgrade-revision

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bose-2-67-3-5mm-audio-cable-aqua/6319310.p?skuId=6319310

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Stereo-Audio-Cable-Meters/dp/B00NO73MUQ

BTW - if you have one of the old Green audio cables from a PC (PC to external speaker cable), this cable should work.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-1-3-usb-to-rs-232-db9-pda-serial-adapter-cable-black/5883029.p?skuId=5883029

https://www.amazon.com/Serial-Adapter-Prolific-Chipset-Windows/dp/B0753HBT12/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=J0DPF27LE918&dchild=1&keywords=usb+to+rs232+serial+adapter&qid=1589557226&sprefix=usb+to+RS%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFPVkdXRkMzM0g0OFkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3MzA4MTBLWjNBTjRYTlYwQU4mZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDI3MDg4NTJQUjVUOFZQUjhFUUMmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

I do not have Rev L TIU, but I believe the last one I used on a layout required this style of USB from the PC to the TIU.

https://www.amazon.com/Ancable-Instruments-Compatible-Controller-Microphone/dp/B082HNK7J9/ref=sr_1_14?crid=1LBHO1B8MR3W8&dchild=1&keywords=usb+to+usb+cable&qid=1589557117&sprefix=usb+to+%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-14

This Trainworld Video shows how to download the MTH V6.10 software.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD56Npf4O0Y

This video shows how to set up the V5 DCS Consumer Loader which is the PC tool that loads the DCS V6.10 software into TIUs and Remotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Eil_EasBE

This Trainworld video shows how to make the physical connections to the TIU and Remote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqyEigDSyjA

This video shows how to load the V6.10 software into the MTH Remote (via the TIU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR2itHiK0wM&t=66s

The Trainworld video for doing this for the TIU has disappeared, but the process is the same as for the Remote - just click the button on the Loader program for loading to a TIU.

This is an older video that shows the entire loading process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17CpEt5iqlA

The MTH loader program gives step-by-step instructions for the process. It is important to follow the process carefully - particularly "not accidentally plugging the remote/handset cable into the 'AIU' jack" It must be plugged into the 'Remote' plug onn the TIU.

[Flintlock76]

wrmcclellan

Note there are two styles of battery replacement depending on the circuitry. Older PS2 locos use a "9 volt" version and the newer PS2 locos use the lower power electronics "3 volt" version.

That may also depend on the individual locomotive.  One of my Proto 2 engines is from a starter set and has the " 3 volt" system, the others Proto 2's are contemporarys of the starter set engine and have the "9 volt" system.  The only way to tell for certain is to open up the engine, or tender if it's a steamer, and have a look.  

And you bet, those BCC's from J&W Electronics are well worth it!  

[wrmcclellan]

I took a moment to look up and refresh my memory on the reason for an 8.4 volt battery... from the Wiki...

Rechargeable nickel–cadmium (NiCd) and nickel–metal hydride (NiMH) batteries of nominal 9V rating have between six and eight 1.2 volt cells. Lithium ion versions typically use two cells (3.7–4.2 V nominal each). There are also lithium polymer and low self-discharge NiMH versions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery

The MTH '9v' batteries were/are NiMH batteries and use 7 x 1.2 volt cells ('piles' from the original definition of a battery element/cell - zinc/copper) for 8.4 volts. 

The 6 cell 7.2 volt NiMH '9v' battery will charge to over 9 v and is cheaper to make/sell. Most toys/radios/etc that use a '9v' battery are not sensitive to the lower voltage as the battery discharges. MTH electronics, particularly Proto1, could have the chip code scrambled by low voltage (the famous 3 "clanks of death") and thus MTH sold a  "reset" chip one could use to reset the Proto Sound 1 board. Here is an old blurb from MTH about the reset chip...

https://www.mthtrains.com/news/015