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Small Lionel O gauge Tinplate trains?

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Small Lionel O gauge Tinplate trains?
Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:39 AM

I was recently watching a bunch of videos on Amazon Prime featuring Lionel "standard gauge" trains. They got me excited about them (who isn't excited about all those colors and chrome and the size of them?) but I am primarily an HO scale guy. I do put some O-scale track around the Christmas tree every year, which got me to thinking...

I know that Lionel also released some smaller trains during the prewar years that have the same charm as the larger standard gauge trains. Small engines, small coaches, small freight cars, etc. What are those sets called, and is there a good reference book for them? I want to learn more about them, but I all see are "Standard Gauge" collector books and I am not sure if the small O-scale trains are considered standard gauge.

Also, are there any good threads here showing various sets? I would love to see what is out there.

Thanks.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:26 PM

O gauge is strictly that, 1 1/4 inches between the outside rails.  Standard gauge is 2 1/2 inches between the outside rails.

In the pre-war years Lionel only produced Standard gauge and O gauge trains.  What you may be thinking about is referred to as "O gauge Tinplate," that is, O gauge trains produced in the same manner as Standard gauge trains, i.e. sheet-metal contruction with colorful paint schemes and nickle-plated or brass trim.  They were less expensive than Standard gauge trains and took up much less room.  Some Standard gauge trains were slightly smaller in dimension than others, but all ran on the Standard gauge track.

One picture, or several, being worth a thousand words, here's CTT's Bob Keller doing a review of a "Lionel by MTH" pre-war O gauge tinplate reproduction set from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfz0RoEi-3k  

Hope this helps!

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Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:55 PM

Thanks. Yes, "tinplate" I guess is the term I need to use (I updated the thread header to reflect this). 

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:56 PM

Lionel "standard" gauge is 2 1/8 inches.

In the first few years, Lionel made trains for 2-rail track with a gauge of 2 7/8 inches.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:57 PM

Some great info here: http://www.tcawestern.org/lionel.htm on Lionel prewar trains.  The other big manufacturers of the era were American Flyer, Dorfan and Ives.

One of the biggest and best Lionel O gauge steamers was the 262E:

These locos look best with Lionel's 800 series freight cars:

American Flyer made their best rolling stock to about the same scale as Lionel's 800's.

Smaller locos like the 259 look best with the 600 series freights:

But BEWARE!  Prewar trains are HIGHLY addictive!!!  Wink

Becky

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:41 PM

A bit off-topic, but just for fun I think everyone might enjoy a look at this.

It's the Standard Gauge Module Association's trin show layout.  The video's from 2019, but I saw them several weeks ago at the "World's Greatest Hobby On Tour" show in Chantilly VA.  Stunning!  

It's an odd thing, but I haven't seen a video or photograph that really gives an impression of just how big these things are.

Anyway, hit the link and "Party like it's 1939!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4JNaaGvO-U  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 7:08 PM

This one does a decent job:

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:13 PM

That it does, and better than most!  

To get this back to O gauge, I found another Bob Keller review, this one's of a tinplate New Haven repro.  Actually it's a fantasy paint scheme, but it's still cool!

Know what really  impresses me?  The recreated sound of the Hancock air whistle!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZEU8X6aTw  

By the way, that December 2013 issue of CTT Bob's holding in the other review?  I've still got mine!  Just too good to recycle!  

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Posted by NNJRailfan on Friday, February 28, 2020 11:59 AM

In reference to your question about reference books (see what I did there, I'm so clever), there are a couple of books that are my go-tos; they're out of print but you can find them used on ebay, Amazon or on-line vintage book stores.  The TCA published Lionel Trains Standard of the World -1900-1943 which covers standard and O gauge trains and accessories.  McComas and Tuohy wrote a multi-volume series that divvyed up the eras and categories (prewar, postwar, standard gauge, catalogues, etc. - volume 1 is pre-war).  And I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest the folks in the TCA's member divisions as a great resource - the Metropolitan Division (metca.org) and the New England division (netca.org) would cover your geographic area.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, February 28, 2020 6:55 PM

Benjamin Maggi

I was recently watching a bunch of videos on Amazon Prime featuring Lionel "standard gauge" trains. They got me excited about them (who isn't excited about all those colors and chrome and the size of them?) but I am primarily an HO scale guy. I do put some O-scale track around the Christmas tree every year, which got me to thinking...

I know that Lionel also released some smaller trains during the prewar years that have the same charm as the larger standard gauge trains. Small engines, small coaches, small freight cars, etc. What are those sets called, and is there a good reference book for them? I want to learn more about them, but I all see are "Standard Gauge" collector books and I am not sure if the small O-scale trains are considered standard gauge.

Also, are there any good threads here showing various sets? I would love to see what is out there.

Thanks.

 

It sounds like you are looking for a smaller sized set that Lionel made to run on O guage.  I am not an expert on Lionel, but I do know that some sets are a bit smaller than others. 

I know that American Flyer manufactured O gauge sets that featured cars ranging in length from 5 1/2 inches long all the way to 12 inches long, with the heights of the cars varying with the length of the cars.  The smaller American Flyer sets were certainly more toys than some of the longer and larger sets.

NWL

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Posted by emdmike on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:44 AM

Something like this little 252 electric set that I picked up at the show this past weekend in its original box.  Perfect for a small loop under the tree.  Just remember that unless its been rewired and new wheels on the locomotive.  That most prewar Lionel engines will need some attention prior to use.   There are also wonderful Clockwork sets from companies such as Hafner, Bassett Lowke, Hornby and Marx that require no electricity and also "sparkle" under the tree when the litho is in good shape.  Marx and Hornby also had some great tinplate stations and other buildings that add to the prewar tinplate feel.  That is a Marx Girard whistling station on my layout.    Mike

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Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:52 AM

Here is a useful link with more information about these trains: http://www.train99.com/ency/lionel1/eng/l250sra.html

Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 10:10 AM

Benjamin Maggi
Lionel also released some smaller trains during the prewar years that have the same charm as the larger standard gauge trains.

Are referring to OO scale? Lionel OO was produced pre-war and was roughly the same scale as HO. OO was 3-rail diecast engines. Basicly an HO sized reproduction of O.

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Posted by emdmike on Thursday, March 5, 2020 1:30 PM

American OO is different that the current UK OO gauge trains, which are basicly HO scale.  American OO is larger, sort of inbetween S gauge and HO gauge.  The track is unique, wider than HO and the same as On3 narrow gauge track. Put the Lionel OO Hudson next to an HO scale one and you can see the larger size.  Its a neat scale and fun to play with, if a bit expensive to buy and much harder to find much beyond the the basic set.  There were others in that scale like Nason, Scalecraft and others back before WWII.  Make the mind wander as to what Lionel could have done with OO had they stuck with that instead of O gauge after the war ended.      Mikie

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Posted by emdmike on Thursday, March 5, 2020 1:36 PM

I would add not to limit yourself with just small Lionel tinplate.  Also look at Ives, Hornby, Hafner and Marx.  Many of those brands had beautiful lithograph tinplate trains.  The UK style stuff from Hornby and Bassett Lowke are just stunning when in nice condition.  UK trains by prototype were much more colorful than USA trains, so the colorful tinplate trains are correct to the real ones.  I had a wind up Hafner streamlined steam set when I was a kit.  Really nice set and it ran really well.     Mike

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