Express service boxcars on passenger trains

[Anonymous]

When the railroads ran boxcars on their passenger trains, such as for express service, did they run the boxcars behind the engine and tender, but ahead of the passenger cars, or did the passenger cars come first, then the boxcars?

Thanks,
Dan R.

[Anonymous]

Ahead of passenger cars.

Engine/tender - Express boxcars Milk cars whathave you, Baggage car, Combine and coachs/diner/sleepers. Observation at end.

[Anonymous]

Depends. On the secondary/tertiary schedules, could have been at both ends. Particularly as we went into the 1960's. On the better trains, at the front ahead of the baggage cars.

[lionelsoni]

Amtrak reversed the tradition, putting boxcars at the rear. I assume that this was done to eliminate the need for head-end power wiring through the boxcars. This would have been a consideration in steam days, when steam lines would have to pass through the boxcars; but I think that keeping the locomotive and its emissions far from the passengers outweighed that.

[passengerfan]

Canadian Pacific ran the Canadian with express boxcars next to locomotive followed by Budd built Baggage Dorm, Coach, Dome buffet coach, sleepers, Dining and dome sleeper lounge observation. Prior to Amtrak many trains operated express boxcars in the consists all were located next to power and all of these cars were equipped with high speed trucks and steam lines. The GN operated several storage mail cars on the rear of the combined Western Star / Fast Mail. This train often ran to twenty cars in the Christmas season with working RPO and Storage Mail cars forward of the passenger carrying cars, The coaches diner and sleeping cars were trailed by a Mountain series Observation than it was usually more storage mail cars and any express baggage cars trailed by a heavyweight bagggage car with a rear brakemans compartment bringing up the markers. The Santa Fe Fast Mail an all mail train with express baggage cars mixed in its consist carried a rider coach across the state of Kansas as required by law in that state.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

Amtrak reversed the tradition, putting boxcars at the rear. I assume that this was done to eliminate the need for head-end power wiring through the boxcars. This would have been a consideration in steam days, when steam lines would have to pass through the boxcars; but I think that keeping the locomotive and its emissions far from the passengers outweighed that.

Correct assumption. Many weren't wired for HEP. In pre-ATK, express boxcars were equipped with high speed trucks of various types and steam and signal lines.

[Anonymous]

I have a box car , a oil car and a caboose and a passenger car that was not included with the train set. What order should I put them in?,,


,Colin

[Anonymous]

Engine Box/Tank Caboose or passenger. Dont use the Caboose AND passnger, you CAN if you want to

[butleryard]

I just saw Amtrak, the other day, and they had the boxcars on the back of the train.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I know we "can" do whatever, but I'd like to know how it really was done. Reminds me of the many times I've asked one of my sisters if a shirt matched a pair of pants, or if I tie matched, etc, and they always answered with "you "CAN" wear that if you want, but I wouldn't..." I still don't know what to wear to work, but that's another issue. Anyway, it is nice having people explain how it really was done so we can model it that way. They phased out steam on the Reading lines about 13 years before I was born, which makes it awfully hard for me to recall how it all worked. In fact, with recent "bashing" going on about the popular rail magazines for "O" guage train hobbyists, I would like to say that I wi***hat BOTH magazines would run an article or two every issue about "how it really happened..." I'm not saying that I want CTT or OGR to become a "railphan" magazine, but I would like to know how the major lines did stuff and how we can model that. We're not modelling alien spacecraft (nothing against modelling alien spacecraft if that's what you're into...), we are modelling something that really happened or still happens today. Anyway, thanks for answering my questions above.

Dan R.

[Anonymous]

1. There's a prototype for everything......somewhere, sometime.

2. E.g.: ATSF 23/24, late 1960's before the 1967 mail contract cancellations--Boxcars, bags, express on both ends with the pax cars in the middle; working cars on the head end. ATSF 111/112 DAL-FTW--2 combined trains, 1 facing forward and 1 facing the rear, with bags etc on both ends sandwiching chair cars on both ends and sleepers in the middle. California Special pax rode backwards the 32 miles. The train split/combined at FTW with 1 leaving/arriving NB and 1 leaving/arriving SB.

3. MKT 5/6, 7/8. The express boxcars were on the very front.

[Chris F]

Express box cars, RPO's, and baggage cars come (came) under the group name "head-end" cars, indicating where they normally were placed in the consists. I think the location primarily was to separate the passenger cars from the noise and dirt of the locomotive. Even so, the placement of express cars often depended on the switching requirements en route.

With Amtrak, the only place I've seen baggage cars is at the head end. A crew dorm (transition Superliner) usually was placed ahead of the regular passenger cars. As for express baggage cars, westbound Southwest Chief and Zephyr trains usually had them at the head end, while the eastbound versions usually had them at the rear, apparently for switching purposes at the terminals. I remember being glad that I was westbound during a Zephyr meet because I was able to get some video of the other train from the rear passenger car.[:D]

[lionelsoni]

Dan, I agree with you. I run O27 and accept the necessary and customary compromises; but, when there's a choice, I like to follow the prototype. I don't think it qualifies me as a "rivet counter" (not that there's anything wrong with that); but it does irritate me when manufacturers get something wrong that they just as well could have gotten right, like backward return cranks, Lionel's upside-down signals, and the wrong cab number on my MTH Big Boy. Anyway, at the least it entertains me to fix these things when I can, to run a geep with the right hood forward if I can find out how the railroad did it, and to put together a train that approximates a prototypical consist.

None of this of course means that I would ever criticize someone who ran his trains to a different drummer. The whole point is to do it the way that I enjoy and to appreciate others' efforts on their own terms.