TMCC Guru's Help Need

[Anonymous]

How can you improve the TMCC signal on a layout?
Have the following conditions.

Layout flexable 20' X 20' or 40' x 40'.
3 ZW transformers.
All transformers phased.
Single power source, some phase, for transformers and command base.
3 Mail lines, with seperate ZW feeding each main line.
Have ground wire run around whole layout plugged into ground outlet.
All outside rails electically connected together and to each transformers.
All wiring is 14 gauge for power and 12 gauge common.

Setup in warehouse enviroment with concrete floors, metal columns, metal roof trusses and sodium or mercury lights. Get flickering lights on some engines and poor responce.

Setup in wood and brick structure with incadenset lighting. All engines work perfectly and respond great.

Have read numerous articles about this or spoke to numerous people about this problem.

Does anyone have any new idea's about this.[banghead][%-)]

[ChiefEagles]

We've got some good TMCC brains on here. Give them time to "pick up". I'm not one of them. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

TAS singal doubler.

check out thier website for info.

Chris

[wrmcclellan]

prr,

You did not tell us how you connected the Command Base to the track common rail.

The most important issue for TMCC is the ground connection for the Command Base wall pack transformer. You must have an excellent ground for this due to the low frequency (455 kHz) signal that is injected into the layout common rail. Make sure you have the wall pack transformer properly connected to an earth ground.

BTW - the signal doubler will not help if grounds are poor or missing.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Roy
Command base power is pluged into the same power strip the ZW transformers are plugged into. I also checked to insure outlet is wired correctly for phasing and ground.

[nblum]

Make sure the power strip isn't equipped with a surge suppressor or other such circuit. This screws up the ground connection for the command base power supply. Suggest plugging the command base power supply directly into an up to code, grounded outlet. TMCC is a low power radio frequency signal, and it is conceivable that large amounts of metal, such as metal roofing, metal posts, etc. are interfering with the signal strength from the cab-1 handheld to the command base, but I think this is much less likely. The combination of an iffy ground for the command base and lots of metal structure may be screwing up your performance.

[wrmcclellan]

prr,

Where is the Command Base output terminal attached to the layout? At the ZWs? Via the ground loop you installed?

Be aware that when I originally wired our club layout (also in a warehouse) we had a long ground loop due to the way I strung wiring for outlets around the layout. We had to rewire this loop into a star pattern as the long ground wire around the layout appeared to interfere with the TMCC signal that was connected to the layout common via the common terminals on the output of the DCS TIUs.

Also check the continuity of all your grounds. We also had a couple of plugs where the ground wire was loose and this caused significant problems.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Niel
Will check power strip for surge protection. If I have surge protection I will eliminate it.

Roy
Ground wire from Command Base is connected to terminal strip that all U posts on transformers are connected to.

Changing over connectors to new style. All connections are crimped and then soldered, then Ohm to check for resistance. Other end of wire has spade connector crimped and also soldered and Ohm. We only accept connections that read 0.00 Ohms. Using a Fluke 87 Meter to check Ohms.

[butleryard]

Make sure the outlet you are plugging into has the proper ground. Check the outlet with an outlet tester. They have lights that light up and tell you if there is a problem with the outlet and to make sure it is wired properly.

Also if possible and this depends on the tpye of track you are using wire up both the outside rails with the common instead of just one side.

Also if you have any tracks passing over each other, you will have problems with lights flickering in the engines. This is caused by the engine getting conflicting signals from each track. To cure this you have to run a wire under the benchwork of the upper track and this gets connected to a water pipe, building ground or as a last resort, the screw on the outlet plate. What you are doing is creating a ground plane and basically you are seperating each of the signals from each track. Make sure this does NOT touch the track at all. This will definetely cause more problems with the signal.

[ChiefEagles]

I would not bypass the surge protector. You will be buying a new unit with a spike. Why not run a separate ground to the outlet using a "dummy" plug. In other words, get a plug from ACE or hardware, run only an equipment ground wire into it and attach it to the ground on your TMCC. Plug it in and you will have direct ground to outlet [if all is bonded right in pannel]. Think this was suggested in CTT or OGR magazine.

[Anonymous]

Chief,

The little "Wall Wart" TMCC transformers are probably the one component that is undesireable to use with a surge protector. It does seem to go against common sense, but I have seen this posted as a solution many times before.

By the way, your suggestion about using one of the two-to-three prong adapters and connecting the lug on the plug to a solid ground is a good one. That is what the local Lionel rep suggested to me when I had TMCC ground problems at Cal-Stewart last November. The ground in the temporary electrical set-up in the convention hall was terrible. It fixed the problem completely.

[Anonymous]

As others have said, the Command Base relies upon a good ground connection. If the outlet that its power supply is plugged into does not have a good ground, or is miswired (which happens more than you know), you won't get a good signal.

If everything works fine on the same layout in one building and not in another, it's a pretty safe bet that the problem lies with the second building's electrical system. It's probably the outlet that you were using in that building. Try plugging the command base into another outlet.

The presence of metalin the building's structure should have no effect on the propogation of the TMCC signal from the Command Base to the locomotives.

If you're talking about two different layouts in two different buildings, you'll also need to check the continuity of the common rail. If you have tracks that cross above or uinder othe tracks, the TMCC signal can interefere with itself at the cross overs. The solution in this case is to run a wire underneath the upper tracks to an earth ground. Only one end gets connected to griound; the other end can be left unattached.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Guys
Thank you all for your help and idea's on this problem so far.

Electrical outlet- I test each new setup with an outlet tester to insure proper phasing and ground. Not a issue.

Three Main tracks run parrel to each other and do not cross over each other.

Ground loop is run around outside of layout, using 14 Gauge standed wire connected into ground on out let. Attach plug to this wirer and plug in to outlet. I do make sure I us silicone to seal off hot and neutral terminals inside plug to prevent electrical shock.

When groud loop is not plugged in, some of the engine lights do start to flicker, plug it back in, flickering stops.

Can mercury vapor or sodium lights effect effect TMCC signal?


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