OK To mix O and O-27 track?

[Anonymous]

Hi there, I'm a newbie and wanted to know if i can add O track to my Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer starter set. Also, my transformer is the standard issue. If I want to add an exterior loop will i need more power[?]

Any thoughts on proper grades for hills in a layout. so far i'm on carpet using books.

Beth

[Dr.Fu-Manchu]

The [}:)] Doctor is in !!! First, Welcome to you ! May your time with us be fruitful !! To Answer your first question: Are you using Lionel tinplate track or the new Fastrack ?
I don't think you can mix the two at this time. I use the tinplate 0 gauge track for main lines and I have been using the 027 track(after shimming it at the switches) for yard & sidings. This is like the real railroads do, heavy track on mains and lighter rail on sidings and yards. Second Question: If you plan to run a second loop, are you going to
run a second train also? If this the case, you will need a transformer that has two throttles or command control and a larger power pack. I my self use a Post-War KW
transformer that can handle two trains. But I plan to run trackside items which need
power also. So I am going to add a transfomer just for other needs. And now to your third question: grades on track. You are better off if you use a trestle set that lionel makes. It slowly raises the track to a high point, then brings it down again. A bridge at
the middle of the two highest piers is a nice touch. I hope the answers I have given you are of help. Again, Welcome to our humble group !
Till My Next Missive, I Remain The Humble, Yet Strangly [}:)] Doctor !!!

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Doc. i've got the Fast Trac. So far i only have the one train. i guess the fun part of being a newbie is how much there is to choose from at this stage[:p]beth

[daan]

Hi Beth,
Normal 0 gauge tinplate track doesn't fit exactly on 027 tinplate. The ties on 027 are half the size and height, the rail is half the size and height and the connector pins are smaller on 027.
If you like to combine those two tracks, you'll have to alter the connections a bit. The holes in the 0 track have to be squeezed around the 027 connector pins to make good contact and you'll need to make a small piece of straight to get a small ramp to get to the height of the 0 gauge track from 027.

[spankybird]

HI Beth,

Weclome to the CTT forum


Lionel does make an adapter for going from Fastrack to tube track.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dave Farquhar

The Lionel part number for the adapter to allow you to use Fastrack with tubular O gauge track is 6-12040.

If you are using the CW80 transformer, I would upgrade it to a better transformer.

tom

[ChiefEagles]

I would agree with Tom on upgrading the transformer. There have been a lot of complaints on the CW80 [especially on a post on the OGR forum: http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8961046391 ]. Seems a lot of floks have had troubles. Lionel is replacing them as folks complain [a simple call seem to work]. I have ramped the track and switches up with anything to shim it up and make a smooth transition. O is a lot more forgiving than HO. Good luck and glad to have you here.

[ben10ben]

Regarding joining the two types of track, I have always found it more beneficial to force an O gauge pin into the O27 track sections. This will hold much, much better than crimping the smaller O27 pin into the O gauge track, and it's less expensive to replace the section of O27 track that now can't be used anywhere else.

[GPJ68]

As Spanky pointed out, Lionel does make a transition piece for Fastrac to O guage tubular. Since you're carpet railroading for now, expanding the layout with stout and heavy O guage tubular track would be much better than using the smaller and lighter O27 guage tubular variety (and assuming you don't want to invest in more of the pricier Fastrac), and you won't have to deal with mismatched pin sizes and rail height differences. I'm using the O27 variety myself, but I've got it on a bench where it won't get mangled by any misplaced feet.

As far as a second loop and your present transformer, if your plan is to just expand the track area along with a few switches to give the Pennsy Flyer more room to run, then your CW80 should be fine - you may need to run some extra power leads to the farther-out areas to keep power (and the engine) moving smoothly. If you want to add a second train on a completely separate loop, then you will need a second transformer, or one transformer that can run two or more trains separately.

Regarding the CW80, I personally wouldn't be too quick to toss it aside and spend more $$$ on a replacement simply because it's a CW80. If it develops the problems that others have run into, get it replaced by Lionel (as so many others have). If, over time, you find a need for more power because of a growing and more complex layout, additional "power hog" engines, more operating accessories, etc., THEN look for a substantially more powerful tranny, ideally the most powerful that you can afford. I'm using an MTH Z-4000 right now, but only because I got a whale of a deal on a lightly used one.

Finally, grades. Unless others think I'm being too optimistic, the preference is to keep grades at 5% or less whenever possible, with less being more preferable. I've had no problems with my Williams engines pulling 11+ modern manufacture cars up 5% grades, one of which goes around a 180 degree curve. My guess is that I could at least double that number of modern cars before experiencing pulling problems (but that's a pure guess, don't have enough room in the reverse loops to try it). Engines with traction tires (like your Pennsy Flyer and my Williams) can be more suceptible to throwing the tires by trying to pull excessive weight/resistance, hence the less steep the grade the better. It really depends on just how long a train you want to be able to run - short trains (handful of cars) can stomach a much steeper grade (5% or more) better than long ones. Also, steeper grades require more power for the engine to maintain speed going up, which can come back to bite you on the downhill run if you're not watching closely... Several different graduated trestle sets are available from different sources (Lionel, MTH, K-Line) along with bridges, piers, et.al. My personal preference is the MTH graduated set of "rock" trestles. They have a wide base and, at least for me, will support the track and trains and remain upright without having them screwed down (to the bench or the track). Not exactly the recommended method, but has worked so far for me. For a carpet layout, mounting them (or other trestle sets for that matter) individually on small squares of plywood or something similar would probably be smart to improve stability without sacrificing portability.

Best of luck with your carpet railroading adventures! Don't be afraid to experiment and ask questions, but expand carefully. With so much to choose from, it's easy to suddenly find yourself spending wads of money and ending up with alot of excess stuff that doesn't quite work well together.

[daan]

A simple tool for tubular 0 and 027 combination is a pair of crimp pliers that are usually used to crimp the blue, red and yellow crimp tubes to connect wires in your car together. It usually comes with 3 different sized "shapes" in front of it. I filed the most outside located "shape" to a half circle of about 3mm diameter. This way I can crimp the sheetmetal of the track around the pin easily.
You can also use an old set of normal pliers and drill a hole in the closed jaws of the pliers fitting around the track to crimp the pins well.
As for 027 I use 2.5mm stainless steel pins and for 0 3mm stainless steel pins.

[lionelsoni]

That's a good idea, Daan. I use the same pair of tongs that I used as a kid. My father bought them in 1952 when we were in Japan. The jaws are just the right size to grip the O27 web and about 12 millimeters wide, about half the pin length.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the presence of grooves in the track pins. Those are for crimping the rail into the pin (with something like small long-nosed pliers) to keep it from coming out. Marx pins also have a groove, but it is quite small and much harder to use than the Lionel grooves.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure what the specs are now - my experience is from the '40s and '50s - but Lionel used to make sets specifically designated for and supplied with 0 and 0-27 tracks etc and since I had several sets the tracks were often mixed and matched. The main problem that I came across was that some trains made to O gage standards, would not handle the smaller radiuis curves (O-27 had a 27" diameter vs 30" for O gage). Especially one engine - I think it was a 4-8-4 with Pennsy logo - would always derail if it hit a curve on O 27 track at moderate speed. I think there were also some passenger cars with 6 wheel trucks that did the same.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Hi Beth,

If you have not purchased track yet you might want to consider staying with fast track. It's biggest downside is being more expensive. However, the fastrack is MUCH easier to work with and seems to hold its shape well. You can really connect from any O guage track to any other O guage track if you are willing to modify a few pieces (just line them up and power up both ends). An adapter track (once again) is a tad more expensive but nicer to use. If I were just starting and wanted to get a lot of track for the least amount I would go for fastrack on the curves for sure. If you had any long straight track sections then you might consider transition and tubular. I often run the "back" straight run on my board as tubular so I can save the straight fastrack for the more visible runs closer to the operator..

Buy the way....I just picked up some HobbyLobby fast track at "40%" off this week. However, the selection at the stores is fairly limited (with some stores having none at all).

Jim

[ChiefEagles]

As suggested above, you may want to stick to Fasttrack. Ease of assembly and the raised roadbed. Makes a great surface for carpet [no lint] or other surfaces. Only "drawbacks" are: 1. cost but worth it for ease on "installation" and 2. noisy. For a small layout, go for it. Glad to see a lady in the bunch. Visit the "coffee pot" and get to know us. Well, maybe not all of us. [;)]