tmcc & dcs, which is better?

[SteamPowered3251]

I have a loco ( a Lionel 4-4-2) that I'm planning on making it command control. Should I do dcs, or tmcc? What are the pros and cons on each?

Aaron, Leader of AMTC, Aaron's Mukwonago Train Club.

[rtraincollector]

your asking for WWIII with that question. It boils down to personal preference. I personally prefer TMCC mainly because I started with it and also because I never had DCS and don't plan to because even thou given the opertunity MTH turn down the chance to use it and went with there own, that isn't compatible with TMCC. I have no plans to own both. 

[Bob Keller]

If your Lionel 4-4-2 is the starter set 4-4-2, I'm not sure there would be room in the model for either system. If you live in Mukwonago, contact Sommerfeld's Trains up in Butler at 262-783-7797 and they could give you some insight ino what may or may not fit. Frankly, I think I'd pick a brand and buy a loco with TMCC or DCS already installed on it.

 

[SteamPowered3251]

I'm trying to figure which one i should do because the loco I want to convert to command control is right now conventional, but I have a dcs layout and a tmcc command base and I am just trying to use my tmcc command base, but I'm not sure which one I should do.

[anjdevil2]

Just as an FYI....I'm in the process of putting in fan smoke and TMCC with Railsounds in a 2026....the Train Doctor is doing it and it is a long term project, which I have already paid for up front, my preference.

Now having used BOTH TMCC/Legacy and DCS, I will not run DCS for the following reasons:

1) Too long to boot up and run

2) MTH does not support "older" versions of ProtoSound

3) TMCC/Legacy is backwards compatable and was built to do just that and run, with the appropriate equipment, ANY Lionel engine ever made.  Which means Lionel supports everything - with the exceptioon of the LionChief line - it ever made.

4) TMCC/Legacy - especially TMCC and CAB1-L are easy to use.  My xGFs 6 year old daughter figured out how to use TMCC in 3 minutes.  Just to throw this out there, my God-Daughters 5 year old was running my LionChief in just over a minute.

This is MY opinion.  Yours may differ, but this is again from my experience using both systems.

[SteamPowered3251]

Thanks!!!!! That was very helpful, my only gauge command control loco is a mth loco with ps2, while had no experience with tmcc. To me the pros and cons are: 

Pros: sounds are super realistic, taken from real locos.

Descent in price.

Cons: it is hard to control, especially in coconventional.

And can get very pricey at times.

[robmcc]

I'll put a vote for TMCC/Legacy as well. DCS is a good system, but as mentioned, I too find more options and flexiblilty with TMCC. Electric RR Company sells their Mini Commander boards for around $80.00. I don't have the specs handy, but I believe the boards are around 1" x 2".

Rob

[EIS2]

I have had TMCC, DCS, and Legacy.  If I had it to do over again, I would definitely stay conventional.  It is much more reliable, much cheaper, user repairable, and more fun to operate.  I prefer the hands on the throttle operation of conventional vs. the robotic operation of speed control.

But you were choosing between TMCC and Legacy.  Exactly half of my DCS fleet (4 engines) have failed electronics.  Since repairs were prohibitively expensive for me, both engines were converted to conventional operation.  

I have a much larger fleet of TMCC and Legacy engines (around 20 engines).  I have had to replace the tether on one TMCC engine and replace a board on a Legacy engine that failed due to a foreign object that was left in the motor during manufacture.  The foreign object apparently caused a short circuit which destroyed the board.

Once again, I would stick to conventional operation and avoid the headaches and expense of command control.

Earl

[dbaker48]

As RT stated opportunity for WWIII. 

I started with TMCC, added DCS, then upgraded TMCC to Legacy.  I have conventional engines, TMCC, DCS (PS2), and Legacy.  I have 2 DCS Remotes, 2 TMCC, & 1 Legacy.  I pretty much use the DCS remotes 98% of the time.  I run ALL my engines with the DCS remote.  I will try to be unbiased and provide some comparative notes;

The primary difference between the two systems is that the TMCC utilizes a control signal emitted from the Command Base to the engine.  The DCS system when it was introduced also used a control system that was transmitted to the engine (PS1).  Subsquently MTH developed a system that was "bidirectional", where both the engine and command base (AIU) were sending "packets" of information back and forth to each other.  (That is the primary reason PS1 was not forward compatibile.  MTH didn't do a very godd job supporting their dealer base or prior PS1 customers, with the introduction of PS2.)  The bidirectional concept provided MTH with extensive product enhancements, taking advantage of engine status and feedback.

Regarding compatibility as I understand;

1.  Basic Conventional operation, adjusting track voltage, resulting in every engine on the connected track reacting the same.

2. Command Control,

     TMCC - Remote (handheld) control of Lionel engines equipped with TMCC control modules.  With the addition of a Lionel module the transformer can be adapted to vary track voltage permitting the remote to operate conventional engines.  TMCC can NOT operating ANY of the DCS engines other than in conventional mode.

     DCS (PS1) - Old electronic system only availabe from after-market, used sales.  The PS1 units have numberous issues, and it is worth becoming familiar with identifying the engines to eliminate unexpected surprises.

     DCS (PS2/PS3) - MTH's products since the early 2000's.  This version of DCS can run all conventional engines, WITHOUT purchasing any additional modules.  The DCS minimum system consists of the Remote and AIU, a TIU is available for accessory and switch control.  DCS WILL operate Lionel TMCC and Legacy equiped engines.  Some folks argue that TMCC and Legacy operation is less than optimal.  My experience is there is very little I can't do with DCS.  (An alternate horn sound, or vibrating sensation in the Legacy remote.  Their may be more Lionel features that fall into that category time will tell.)

    Legacy - Can of course do everything that TMCC can, and also the Legacy engines.  Legacy CANNOT control any of the DCS engines, however.

Both Lionel and MTH are moving ahead at light speed, both have blue tooth and WIFI capabilites in the newer products.  Features are expanding for both every year.

I have found that with DCS, I can do more with less investment.  As mentioned above DCS has 3 primary components, (Remote, AIU, and TIU).  Lionel has numerous modules especially if you want to control switches or accessories on your remote.

Regarding Quality the best thing is to go to a hobby story that has both manufacturers and physically compare similiar priced products.

I know with MY engines I have bad and good in both.

IF you are going to build a layout, I CANT EMPHASIZE  ENOUGH WIRE YOUR LAYOUT FOR DCS !  It isn't that difficult to do, but will save you a LOT if you ever decided to go that way in the future.  Wired for DCS is totally compatible with TMCC or Legacy.

Good Luck, either you will enjoy !  Most likely end up with both anyway.

I have been very happy with DCS, and I find MTH more affordable.

[SteamPowered3251]

Thanks!!!!! That was super into detail!!!!!!!!! Well I think I'm just gonna go tmcc, not that I don't like dcs, its just that: 

1. I bought a tmcc command base for a really super nice price!!!!!!($20) and I don't have a tmcc loco to use for it.

2. I'd like to try tmcc, I haven't been doing much Lionel stuff and I think I'll just use my dcs controller.

Aaron, leader of the new AMTC, Aaron's Mukwonago Train Club.

[dbaker48]

SteamPowered3251

2. I'd like to try tmcc, I haven't been doing much Lionel stuff and I think I'll just use my dcs controller.

 

Aaron, you may have a typo, not sure.  Your DCS controller will NOT work with the TMCC Command Base. 

[dlagrua]

Over here is neither  DCS, TMCC, Legacy or any remote operaton. Don't need it and always worried about reliablity issues. Layout uses simple operation on four loops so I just pull the levers of the old trusy ZW's and watch the trains run. With periodic lubrication; expereincing near 100% reliabilty.