Lionel 2023

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  • Member since
    November, 2017
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Lionel 2023
Posted by Dtrain on Sunday, November 19, 2017 7:28 PM

I am new to Classic Toy trains but the terrific info on the forums made me create an account.  I am looking for a solution.  I recently acquired an old  UP Lionel 2023 powered and dummy unit.  When I apply transformer power, the E-unit will engage (click up), buzz and the headlight will come on, but there is no sign of power to the engine or the front drive wheels engaging.  I have the shell off and have reviewed the wiring diagrams.  Any ideas of what I could try get this loco moving?

  • Member since
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  • From: MICH
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Posted by sir james I on Monday, November 20, 2017 8:56 AM

After checking for loose wires the very next step is always the E-unit. It could be dirty or have broken fingers, a visual might spot it. Parts are available if needed. Also check the brushes and springs.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

  Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC)   TCA      Detroit3railers                               Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains

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  • From: Austin, TX
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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, November 20, 2017 9:05 AM

Three things to check for:

o  A broken wire, which may appear connected if the insulation is holding it in place.

o  A finger in the e-unit not making contact with the drum.  If this is the problem, you may be able to get the motor to respond by poking the errant finger with a toothpick while power is applied.

o  Worn out or missing motor brushes.

You can rewire the motor for test purposes to bypass the rest of the locomotive:  Connect the field winding to one of the brushes.  Connect one transformer wire to the other brush.  Connect the other transformer wire to the motor frame, which is the other end of the field winding.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Dtrain on Monday, November 20, 2017 11:19 AM

Thank you Sir James.  I have swapped an E-unit in a steam Lionel.  There has been some previous work that I can see with some solder.  I will do some more tinkering.  Thanks for your direction.

 

Derek :-)

 

regards, Derek :-)

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Posted by Dtrain on Monday, November 20, 2017 11:37 AM

Hi Bob,

I have read your previous posts on lionel 2023.  Thank you for your reply.  The E-unit appears to have only one finger?  Many wires soldered to it.  The E-unit looks like the original according to the lionel repair book but I guess I could swap it with another E-unit I have. The coil wires (yellow and blue) travel  along the engine down across the top of  the E-unit under the clip to the rear truck.  If I can get the engine to come to life and the wheels to turn that would be good.  I took the top of the engine off and the brushes (little cylindrical copper pieces)  are there and intact.  I cleaned the armature turns fine.  I gave the brushes a little cleaning. I will give it ago with your suggestions tonight to bypass the rest of the locomotive.  I appreciate your reply.

regards, Derek

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, November 20, 2017 6:09 PM

Welcome aboard!

Becky

A waking Lithium Flower just about to bloom

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Posted by Dtrain on Monday, November 20, 2017 7:26 PM

Thank you and regards!  Big Smile

Derek

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  • From: Austin, TX
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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:57 AM

I don't understand several comments in your last post, Derek:

There are 6 fingers in the e-unit, not 1.  These small copper-colored strips are fastened to 2 small circuit boards, 4 on one and 2 on the other.  Their free ends rub on a small plastic drum, making contact (or not!) with copper sections on the drum as it is rotated by the pawl.

The yellow and blue wires should go from the e-unit to the motor brushes, not to any coil.

The brushes are indeed little cylinders, but carbon, not copper.

When you rewire the motor for testing, disconnect all 3 of the motor wires.  (You can leave the connection between the field winding and the motor body.)

Here is a link to the wiring diagram:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc2023a.pdf

When you reconnect the motor, the green wire goes to the center motor terminal, for the field winding.  It doesn't matter which of the yellow and blue wires goes to which brush holder.

Bob Nelson

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    November, 2017
  • 8 posts
Posted by Dtrain on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:45 AM

Hi Bob,

Thanks again for the input, anatomy lesson on the e-unit and  your suggestions. I removed the e-unit last night and now fully understand "fingers".  All of the wires in the e-unit are green with oxidation.....even when stripped back.....that explains no electricity to motor.  I wired directly to the 2023 motor bypassing the rest of the locomotice and touched the transformer leads....it grunted, buzzed and the armature is trying to spin......so at least I know the it is probably oxidized wires (probably original).  I ordered another clean e-unit replacement on Ebay.  My goal is to rewire with new wiring and go from there.  I will rewire according to your diagram.  The new e-unit has the three(3) color coded wires. Yellow and blue for brush holders and green for the middle connection or motor winding.  Does this sound correct?

Derek :-)

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Posted by cwburfle on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 4:47 PM

The brushes are indeed little cylinders, but carbon, not copper.

Original Postwar Lionel brushes are often copper colored due to high copper content in their composition.

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Posted by Dtrain on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 7:42 PM

Thnak you CW.  I am definitely learning as I go.  This is a great forum.

regards, Derek

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Posted by Dtrain on Monday, November 27, 2017 7:06 PM

Hi Bob,

I am happy to say that my Union Pacific lionel is running strong! Big Smile I appreciate your advice and suggestions.  Here was the core issue....broken wire from the motor coil winding located directly UNDER the green wire.......I just never realized the significance of that wire since I did not have a motor diagram for reference or repaired a 2023 before.  Of course I learned this after I replaced the e-unit and did some soldering......but that is how you learn, right  My last question concerning the motor.  On top of the motor, it say "oil".  Should I add a few drops to this circle area? 

regards, Derek Yes

 

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Posted by Dtrain on Monday, November 27, 2017 7:21 PM

Hi Bob....found the motor wick oiling diagram for the 2023 motor.....

http://www.justtrains.com/Service/maint-12.asp

Derek Yes

 

Tags: lionel 2023
KRM
  • Member since
    January, 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:30 PM

Here is another great place for info.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm

For the 2023

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2023.htm

 

 

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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