Can't get the green light to go out!!

[Anonymous]

Help, it's almost Christmas, and I''m trying to wire a lionel 153 block signal. I can get the red light to go off and on when the train enters the insulated block, but the green light stays on the whole time.

Is it supposed to stay on? Or should it go off when the train is in the block. If so, how the heck do I wire it?

I am so confused. If you can help, please keep it simple. I am not good at this stuff at all.

Thanks!

Paul

[Roger Bielen]

On my old layout I used a relay to control the 153. The 153 requires a pair of open and closed contacts, which the relay provided, the insulated rail was in the coil circuit for the relay. When the train passed over the insulated track the relay was energized changing the state of the contacts. On the 153, looking from the rear, the middle is the power supply and the outer posts go to the relay, one to normally open the other to normally closed, the relay coil common goes to the "U" (ground) and the supply to the accessory post on the transformer .

You might be able to find a relay at Radio Shack, mine were "leftovers" from a project at work. Good Luck.

[lionelsoni]

The 153 is meant to be used with the 153C contactor, which has single-pole-double-throw contacts so that it turns the green light off at the same time that it turns the red one on. Unfortunately, the insulated control rail that you seem to be using just turns the red on, when the wheels bridge it to the other outside rail, but no obvious way to turn the green lamp off. But there are ways around this.

The brute-force solution is to use a relay, with the coil connected between the accessory voltage and the control rail. That will operate the relay, whose contacts can be used to switch between the red and green lamps, duplicating the function of the missing 153C controller. This works, but I like this other way better:

You can wire the common (center) terminal of the signal to the control rail, the green terminal to ground (the outside rails of the track), and the red terminal to the accessory voltage. This will turn the red on when the control block is occupied and short out the green. When the train is not in the control block, both lamps will light dimly in series. So take another lamp and wire it in parallel with the red one. This will shunt the current around the red and allow nearly the full accessory voltage to be across the green. If the green doesn't go completely out, use a bigger lamp (but the same voltage rating) or more than one lamp in parallel. You can then cover or hide these extra lamps so their light doesn't show.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Roger,

This means I can't get it to work unless I have a relay...

The way I have it now is a wire jumped out from the center rail connected to the center terminal. And individual wires running from each of the rails to each of the outside terminals.

Kind of strange, I suppose, but it's working.

I'm a DC O scale guy trying to make sense of an AC Lionel driven machine.

Whew.

[Anonymous]

Paul
I Checked Greenberg Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains. You need to get a 153 C Contactor and install under the track. The contactor acts like a switch. The train goes over the contactor and the red light comes on, when the train is off the contactor the light goes green. If you have a local hobby shop near you, they may have one. Also the hobby shop may a electronic switch to operate your block signal since you have a insulated rail section.

[lionelsoni]

It looks like you're already doing most of what I recommended--you only need to add the shunting lamp around the red.

Connecting the red to the center rail, as you did, will work, but only while the train is powered. If you have an accessory voltage available, using it instead will keep the signal working all the time.

It looks like you're trying to make the signal turn green when the block is occupied, which is okay. However, it is usually used the other way around, with the signal placed at the entrance to the control block, so that it turns red as the train passes it.

[Anonymous]

I am SO grateful for these responses. It's easing the strain of this Christmas project no end.

I just ordered the 153C connector from a website. The photo shows it to be like a rocker device. FYI Here's what it looks like on the site: https://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=5090

My final question is, when it arrives and I stare at those three terminal clips for wiring, which wire goes where?

Thanks!!

Paul

[Big_Boy_4005]

The 153C is just a set of contacts configured in an SPDT arangement. The single contact is where the power goes in. The normally closed or raised position goes to green, and the other one goes to red. This is the low cost solution, however the pressure plates can be annoyingly fussy.

Lionel also makes an electronic version of this SPDT device, called the 153IR. The function is basicly the same but, it uses infra red light to detect the train.

[lionelsoni]

See
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=256

[lionelsoni]

Paul, while you're waiting for the 153C, I urge you to reconsider the scheme I proposed. The shunting lamp I described can actually be any lighted accessory that you might have, like a floodlight tower, for example. Whatever it is, it will light up when the control block is occupied. Here is a summary:

Connect the center terminal of the 153 to the control rail.
Connect the "shunt" between the "supply" and the control rail.
Connect one outer terminal of the 153 to the "supply".
Connect the other outer terminal of the 153 to the outside rails.

The "shunt" can be an individual lamp or a lighted accessory.
The "supply" can be the accessory voltage or the center rail.
Swapping the connections to the outer terminals of the 153 swaps the function of the red and green lamps.

This is a lot more reliable than the 153C, more robust than an electronic substitute, and doesn't require finding a relay.

[Anonymous]

You guys are the best!

I'm on my way!

Paul

[Anonymous]

You don't need the contactor. Wire the middle post for power. I wire the right post (top light,red) to an insulated track or tracks on 1 end of the block and the left post (bottom light,green) to another insulated track or tracks at the other end of the block. This works great.

[lionelsoni]

Well, qqq, that will light the red light when the train's in one place and the green light when it's in another. But if the train is long enough, it would light both at once; and if it's shorter than that, both will be off at once. What the contactor (and the relay and lamp-shunt circuits too) does is keep the signal green until the locomotive passes, then turns it red until the entire train has passed, whereupon it goes back to green. This is a rough approximation to what a two-aspect signal would do when a real train passed, except for going back to green too soon.

However, even that shortcoming can be eliminated from the relay and lamp-shunt schemes (but not the contactor) just by making the control block longer, so that it stretches well past the signal.