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The Disneyland Thread fka B.Y.O.B.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, July 21, 2017 7:55 PM

Wow.  That's probably better than any souvenir book you could get at Disneyland.

I have to confess I was a little disappointed at what the BYOB really meant in this thread's heading, but only for about five seconds!

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Posted by robmcc on Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:47 AM

HaHa!! Becky hooked me in on that one too! Great idea, though. I know there's at least 6 full scrapbooking totes taking up valuable train storage space in my basement.......

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:59 AM

BowBowBow

Great info share, thanks Beck!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:29 PM

Firelock76
what the BYOB really meant

I believe the first thread I started over here was titled "date me", so yes, I do have a history.  Smile, Wink & Grin

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 10:50 PM

Becky, we had some chocolate covered dates a few Christmases back, they were especially tasty. Prunes, dried figs, raisins, all good.

All kidding aside,

Great info on scrap booking. I've got 10 bazillion slides from railfan days I need to scan.  Someday... Most of the steamers I chased aren't running anymore. I managed to somehow miss 611 every single time.

Lucky to have seen 1361, she hasn't turned a wheel since.

Paul

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Posted by Rene Schweitzer on Thursday, August 3, 2017 3:56 PM

FYI, I've made books like this for all sorts of reasons, but wanted to add a tip. Before checking out, go to retailmenot.com and look for a coupon code. Places like Shutterfly and Snapfish almost always have coupon deals!

Rene Schweitzer

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, August 3, 2017 6:20 PM

Rene, since you've looked in on this, how about Kalmbach publishing Becky's book? Certainly it can't be called "Disneyland," copyrights and all, but how about "A Penny Trains Christmas?"

Keep the price reasonable and I'll betcha it'll sell!

Really, from what I can see from the photos in the post it's stunning!

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Posted by Rene Schweitzer on Friday, August 4, 2017 10:24 AM

I'm out of the loop on what our Books department may be interested in, but if Penny is interested, message me and I'll give you the contact person/info.

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Posted by Bob Keller on Friday, August 4, 2017 10:29 AM

Shutterfly is great, I use them every year to make my own wall calendar. They always make a quality product – as Penny's book illustrates!

Bob Keller

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, August 4, 2017 5:47 PM

Rene Schweitzer

I'm out of the loop on what our Books department may be interested in, but if Penny is interested, message me and I'll give you the contact person/info.

 

Got the message m'Lady. and thanks!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, August 6, 2017 11:28 AM

I grew up here in So Cal. My family took us to Disneyland every summer. I have some stories about the early days of Disneyland, if you"re interested...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, August 6, 2017 7:05 PM

It was just a bit different, wasn't it?  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, August 7, 2017 10:18 PM

Yes, it was.

Very Different from what you might find today.

I was born in '56, one year after Disneyland opened. Our first trip to Disney was about '59 or '60. I have this fuzzy memory that has stayed with me all my life: Driving the Mark Twain riverboat! For years I have tried to figure out if this really happened, or was it just a dream. I have sat down with my mom, and in this course of reminiscing, I asked her. Yes,this really happened! Disneyland was a much more low key place back then, so there my brother and I were with our matching shirts, and crew cuts, in the pilot house of the Mark Twain. Turning the wheel, and piloting the mighty riverboat. What a great experience for a kid ! Of course, we know now the Mark Twain and Columbia are on a track, but that was a really cool experience for a 4 year old ! Don't know if they would take the time for this today...

 Another memory from the early days;

Frontierland: very well thought out, and conceived. The Jungle boat ride, Swiss Family Robinson treehouse, Tom Sawyer's Island.

Fantasyland: basically a ride based on each of Walt's movies. You had Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Sleeping Beaty's castle, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

And then there was Tomorrowland. For the first 10 years, Tomorrowland was like that area on the back of everyone's layout that is a " work in progress" . I am not knocking it, it just lacked the polish of the rest of Disneyland. I can remember one attraction from the early days: kids were flying model airplanes in a circle. That was it ! They also had these bumper cars that were round like a flying saucer,and floated on a cushion of air. That was actually pretty cool. And, they had the " House of Tomorrow". That's a great concept, but probably lost on most young minds.

Then came the big makeover. About '66 or '67, Disney advertised big. New attractions. Things got real exciting! In came " the Pirates of the Caribbean " , the " Haunted Mansion", "It's a Small World", and the "Primeval World". The "People Mover" came in around that time also, and Tomorrowland starting getting a lot more interesting.

A couple more thoughts : the early train ride had wooden clerestory coaches. I can remember my dad warning me not to go out on the platforms while the train was running. Those coaches left when the "Primeval World" came in. The new cars have "theater style " seating, with long benches running the length of the car. Everybody faces inward, because that's where the dinosaurs are. 

One last thought:

I actually remember the "Haunted Mansion" being scary when it first opened. I believe they have " toned it down " somewhat, probably as not to scare kids. I remember the opening corridor with the portraits, and the lightning was crisp, and very startling. Of course, the pictures change in a frightening way with each lightening strike. The last time I was there, the lightening was very slow, and somewhat subdued. 

Yes, there's more, but these are the things that stand out most.

Paul

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Posted by artyoung on Tuesday, August 8, 2017 6:35 PM

I went to Disneyland back in 1971, just before taking a plane ride to my ship's homeport in Pearl Harbor. What impressed me most was the submarine ride - probably too tame for today's kids. When Disney World opened not long after, I remember reading in Time magazine that Disney had the world's 7th largest sub fleet. My family went to Disney World 2 yrs. ago, and I was disapointed that the subs were no more and hadn't been for years. It's a shame: "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" is still one of my all-time favorite movies. To keep this train related, under a bridge on my layout you can find 2 Hallmark ornaments of the Yellow Submarine and the Nautilus at the starting line for submarine races at midnight on the 3rd Tuesday of every month (says so right on a sign). I'm hoping for a "Seaview" one day too.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 8, 2017 7:37 PM

This website: http://davelandweb.com/disneyland/ is indespensible to me!  Big Smile  Take a look, you'll really start tripping down memory lane!  Big Smile

Here's a pic from the 2010 refurbishment of the ships that clearly shows the track on the concrete bottom:

The original Fort Wilderness was a real work of love, hand hewn out of real logs:

It closed in 2003 and was torn down in 2007.  Tongue Tied  Only to be replaced by this "thing":

Which isn't open to the public and is used as a staging area for Fantasmic".

The original treehouse in the original "Disneyodendronsemperflorensextremis":

Tarzan has lived there since 1999:

Tomorrowland was (and still is) the hardest part of the parks to get right.  In this aerial view you can see the Richfield Autopia at the top and the Rocket to the Moon on the right.  At the center is the original Astro Jets and just below that is the Tomorrowland Flight Circle for control line model planes!

The Flying Saucers!

They floated on a cushion of air which blasted through holes in the ground.  This, as you might imagine, was a bit problematic.  They resided in Tomorrowland from August 6, 1961–August 5, 1966 if that helps you date your visit.

Monsanto's nearly all plastic House of the Future:

New Tomorrowland opened in 1967:

Compare the Walt approved version of the 60's with the 90's "retro futurism" of today's Tomorrowland:

Early observation car on the Santa Fe and Disneyland Railroad:

Boy they packed 'em in like cattle!  Laugh

Modern coaches:

But the original observation still rides!

The Viewliner: Disneyland's "other" train:

The Haunted Mansion was built in 1963 but sat empty till 1969:

One of my favorites:

Captain Nemo's pipe organ:

Movie props are expensive!  They had to get more life out of them!

Here's one of those things that didn't work:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 8, 2017 8:24 PM

20k is my favorite movie and it was one of the coolest rides.  Those subs circling the lagoon were an awesome sight!

Here's a great site about the ride: http://www.20kride.com/home.html

Including what happened after 1994:

Operators view (after shutdown):

Graveyard of the Nautilii:

Disneyland opened with this exhibit in 1955:

The concrete Nautilus at Euro Disneyland:

It's a walk through attraction very similar to the 1955 version:

Of course, the big difference is the 1955 exhibit used the actual movie sets and props where the modern version uses reproductions:

Including a copy of James Mason!  Tongue Tied

At Tokyo Disneyland in the Disney Sea park you can tour Vulcania!

There's a buffet:

I doubt "sautee of unborn octopus" is on the menu though!  Laugh

But they do have ice cream:

Mount Prometheus erupts!

There is a ride!  simulator...

In California the subs got a second chance:

Thanks to digital imagery:

Yes, there's a NEW Nemo in town!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, August 8, 2017 10:26 PM

Really fantastic pictures, and info. My recollection of exact dates is only a rough "guesstimate ". I remember many of these exhibits, and the many changes. The " Haunted Mansion" contained a lot of cutting edge technology by 1960's standards.

Here's another humorous story you may enjoy:

 On Main Street, they had an "audio animatronic" Abe Lincoln. This was also cutting edge at the time. As you may know, his motion came from pneumatics. He would stand at the end of his speech, and look quite lifelike. It was a very cool illusion.

I had a cousin who worked there for a time, and he said that over time Ol Abe developed some air leaks, and they referred to him as " Mr. Leakin'" .

Whistling Sorry to share that, but it is funny...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 9, 2017 6:44 PM

Yeah, I've heard about the "hissing Lincoln"!  Laugh

Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, The Carousel of Progress, It's a Small World and the Primeval World were all constructed for the 1964 New York World's Fair:

Honest Abe moved into the Main Street Opera House in 1965:

Freaky realistic, isn't it?  Walt claimed that they even copied Lincoln's voice characteristics for the original version.  How, 100 years after his death, they managed to pull that off I can't say.

Even though he's quita a bit more articulate (and less hissy) the modern incarnation isn't quite as good as the original in my opinion:

But even that looks better than the WDW Hall of Presidents version in my book:

Here's a funny bit of Disneyland lore you may have never heard.

One day Walt discovered to his horror that there was unused space inside Sleeping Beauty Castle.  Gathering up some of his imagineers he journeyed into the park to have a look at the offending attic.  To Walt, underutilization was anathema, and he just couldn't let this continue.

So here's Walt and several of his best and brightest ascending a ladder into a recess of the castle that was never intended to be used for anything except keeping the roof up and maybe a bit of storage.  In their everyday business attire by the way, they had to do this while the park was open after all.  Upon entering the loft, they quickly decided that some sort of small attraction could indeed be constructed to fit inside the space.  It would probably have to be small, and since Walt was an avid fan of miniatures he may well have been the first to suggest a series of dioramas.  (Which is what they did indeed install and Shirley Temple Black opened the Sleeping Beauty Diorama to the public in April of 1957.)

But back in the loft a bit earlier on in this tale, the team from WED began noticing two very strange things.  Number one, the whole room was completely lousy with cats of all sizes and descriptions.  They most likely sought refuge in there while the castle was being built and nobody ever noticed they were there.  (Maybe they should have thanked them for keeping the rats away from the mice?  Smile, Wink & Grin)

The other curious thing is that the floors, walls and ceilings were coated in some kind of curious black substance.  As they ventured deeper into the small space, the reason why became all too obvious as the billions upon billions of fleas leapt off the walls and onto the fresh meat that had walked so willingly into their midst!

So, imagine if you will, Walt Disney and a group of Disneylands architects vaulting down that ladder and out into Fantasyland all the while stripping off jackets and swatting at the swarm of ravenous blood suckers who now turned their attention to every nearby guest or park employee!  Laugh

This IS a true story.  Too bad they didn't make a T-shirt.  "I went to Disneyland and all I got was fleas!"

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, August 9, 2017 7:53 PM

That sounds like my first apartment. Never heard that one before.

Do you remember the train ride through "Nature's Wonderland " ? 

At least, I think that was what it was called. It was a saddle tank Porter, sort of a mine train. It went through a desert landscape with bright bubbling mud. Geothermal activity, but the mud was bright blue, red and such. It's a great example of early Disneyland. The rides were somewhat quaint, but lots of fun. I loved that train, when I was a kid. The fastest ride they had then was the Matterhorn bobsleds. How tame that seems now !

You know, the rides that have come and gone would be an interesting sub topic, all in itself.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:56 PM

From Daveland: "The Rainbow Caverns Mine Train (1956) was renamed “The Mine Train Through Nature’s Wonderland” when it was upgraded with new scenery and debuted on May 28, 1960."

Old Unfaithful Geiser

The location of the ride was originally a trail for stagecoaches, conestoga wagons and mule trains:

The landscape has changed a bit:

But reminders of the past can be found:

The best sites for photos and info on past Disney attractions are http://davelandweb.com/disneyland/ and http://yesterland.com/.

How to build an alp:

Ever see Hans and Otto?

above 1959, below 2002

Old Yeti:

New Yeti:

It's not ALL thrill ride ya know...

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:37 PM

Thank you so much ! Such great memories of that ride. I had actually forgotten about the indoor caverns section until I saw your pictures. I was sad to see that train go ! My brother and I rowed the canoe. In that area, they also had a burning cabin, with arrows embedded in the sides. No trace of that now.

 My brother and I had a lot of fun on Tom Sawyers Island. I remember the caverns, and the raft ride to get out there. There was also a "Keelboat " option for river travel.

I think Mr. Disney was a genius, and he payed attention to the little details that make it special. Mickey Mouse pancakes at Aunt Jemimas pancake house, Mickey Mouse hats with your name custom embroidered, the Horse cars, and omnibuses of Main Street, and, oh yes,

the trains. Watching the men run the locomotive from the first seat in the first car. They seemed to have mastered it, with very little manipulation of the controls. That comes with experience.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, August 11, 2017 7:28 PM

Oh the cabin is still there!

It's just not on fire anymore.  The sign nearby leads you to believe it's the residence of Mike Fink:

His keel boat is parked nearby:

But yeah, it's not quite the same:

It wasn't just the cabin that had arrows in it by the way:

Believe it or not, Disneyland's keelboats were actual movie props:

Davy Crockett's Keelboat Race, 1955, starring Fess Parker and Buddy Ebsen:

They got windows and seats for park use though:

I'd love to add boats to my Rivers of America but the space is very tight:

The Gullywhumper in near sinking condition, note the dirtiness of the water at that time too:

It was more fun when they played chicken with the big boys!

The rafts are now the only way onto the island:

The island isn't what it used to be, especially with the closure of Fort Wilderness.  This thing just doesn't cut it:

Now they have Pirate's Lair:

Gee.  It's so nostalgic looking:

Oh....that's why:

Yes sports fans Aunt Jemima really did have a pancake house at Disneyland!  Laugh

This was the original New Orleans Street section of Frontierland.

Today's River Belle Terrace still makes those pancakes!

From 1957 to 1961 part of Auntie J's was The Silver Banjo BBQ:

Owned by Don and Verne DeFore:

If Mr. DeFore looks familiar, he was Thorny Thornton, Ozzie and Harriett's neigbor and also Mr. Baxter (Mister B) on Hazel.

If you're very very lucky...

Don't look at me!  I've never been so lucky!

But there is a seat on the tender...

Otherwise looking over the tender is the best seat:

The C.K. Holliday was built at Disneyland:

The E.P. Ripley just prior to opening day:

The Ward Kimball:

The Ernest F. Marsh:

The Fred Gurley:

And the Lilly Belle:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, August 11, 2017 9:59 PM

All those Disneyland shots are just wonderful!

A few notes...

Sad to see all those "Nautilii" on the hard and unused.  I'd love to have one, just the thing for cruising the James River here in Virginia, or one of the bigger lakes.  Disney's "Nautilus" has got to be the coolest movie sub ever, and I'm sure Jules Verne would have given it his heartiest approval.

"20,000 Leagues..." is still a superb piece of work even 60 years after it was filmed.  Sure, it has some comedy to keep the kids interested, but the part that really impresses me is James Mason's superb acting as Captain Nemo, especially the part where he's playing the organ and "psyching" himself up for the attack on the munition ship.  Nemo's a fundamentally decent man, but you can see that decent man turning himself into a killer and hating every second of it.  Deep stuff.

Oh boy, Fess Parker and Buddy Ebsen!  Great shot of those men.  Did you know that John Wayne wanted Fess to play Davy Crockett in his 1960 film "The Alamo?" It's true.  Ol' John believed he'd have his hands full producing and directing and wasn't interested in acting in the film and thought casting Fess Parker would be a no-brainer.  However, he couldn't get the financial backing unless he played a role in the film, so that was that.  Interesting to speculate how the film would have been with Fess doing Davy again.

Disneyland live steam, Walt insisted on it.  There's been rumblings on and off about Disneyland and Disney World dropping live steam but I wouldn't if I were them.  Walt would come back from the dead to raise hell with them!  Once a railfan and steam freak, always a railfan and steam freak!

On Lincoln's voice, certainly there was no recorded sound back in Lincoln's time, but from what I've read the Disney team did some very exhaustive research and found that Lincoln's voice (as remembered by those at the time) was somewhat high-pitched.  Well, they couldn't go too high pitched or audiences wouldn't accept it, so they hired character actor Royal Dano to do the voice of Lincoln. Dano's voice was slightly high-pitched, and crackling and "country" enough to be plausible.  I remember "Lincoln" from the "Hall of Presidents" in 1975, and Dano's voice certainly worked.

And I'll never forget a line from "Mr. Lincoln's" speech...

"As a nation of free men, we shall live forever, or die by suicide!"

 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, August 11, 2017 11:36 PM

A few thoughts, and some odds and ends...

First off, thank you so much for posting these great pictures ! 

It's funny, but I only remember the grey "Navy" style subs at Disneyland. Perhaps my young mind did not process when the Nautilus subs were running. This is probably just my memory, or lack there of. I do remember riding the subs. First, stepping onto a black rubber non slip mat, then into the open hatch on the sub's top. Down the steps, and taking a seat in the sub. There were rows of windows down the sides. Then, we were underway. They would blow out some bubbles to simulate the sub diving.You could look out the windows, and see fish. Then, a mermaid ! A credible simulation of a sub voyage.

About live steam: with the limited knowledge I have of live steam operation, I was surprised at the way he operated this engine. He did not " hook up" the engine ! He kept the Johnson bar in a preset notch, and just cracked the throttle a little to leave "Main Street Station" . This was sufficient to start the train, and bring it to a nice chuffing progress. Perhaps this section of the line is nearly level. In the photo section of a "Trains" magazine many years back, it showed the engine crew hand sanding the track prior to departing "Tomorrowland" station. There may be a gentle gradient departing that station. Santa Fe and Disneyland Railroad is also signaled.

Shops, and strategies :

The shops at Disneyland had some unique stuff, you couldn't seem to find anywhere else. Main Street was the place! Our day would normally end with two tired and happy young boys, and their father being asked by my mom to "wait just a minute while I go in and look" . My mom is a purveyor of knic knacks of all sorts, and that minute would stretch almost beyond the tolerance of the men in the family. She either came out with something, or we would hear that we needed to go back to Disneyland to go back to that store . In all fairness, I am not without guilt. There was a great magic shop that I always loved. I purchased a wooden chest with many secret compartments.It had a picture of the " Haunted Mansion" on it. Where else do you find stuff like that ?

When we were young, we enjoyed Disneyland with our parents. As we got into pre teen, and teenage years, it became " meet back here at lunchtime " ,or " meet back at dinner time" . My brother and I developed some strategies to cram in as many rides as time would allow. Back then, it was the ticket books, with tickets A through E. They only gave you 5 " E" tickets, which were the best rides. You always ended up with no " E" tickets left, and a boat load of unwanted "A" tickets. That's just how it was.

So, anyway, our strategy was to get to Disneyland when it first opened, agree on our meeting place and time. Then my brother and I would bolt to all the "E" ticket rides and try to squeeze them all in early, before the mid afternoon crowds. We were very productive that way. A good day was one we hit almost everything.

The Tiki Room.

The Enchanted Tiki Room, as it was called.This place was my mom's favorite. I can remember as a small child, and the last time I was at Disneyland, it was still there. Although, the last time I went in there, as an adult, I found the need to fight off the compelling urge to bust out laughing, like a raving lunatic. Somehow, that song tickled my funny bone ! Sorry, mom.

 

" The birds all sing, and the flowers bloom, in the Tiki, Tiki, Tiki, Tiki, Tiki room." ( imagine birds singing this song, a few hundred times, over, and over again) . Stick out tongue

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:48 PM

One of the Nautili wound up at Castaway Cay (Disney Cruise line's private island Confused)

You could dive on it:

Rumor has it the sub was either removed or it washed out to sea when a hurricane passed close.  Whatever the truth is, it's fun to think that there may be a Nautilus on the bottom of the sea waiting to be found.

This one wound up at Disney MGM Studios as part of the special effects atraction:

It now goes on tour for Disneyana conventions:

Most of them ended right here in this field.

After scrap dealers were allowed to strip off anything they could sell on Ebay, the subs were buried in a very large landfill.  If you manage to get a piece of a Disney sub, be aware that they're lousy with lead paint.

Check these out:

As the opening day TV special began on ABC, with Walt driving, the E.P. Ripley pulled into Main Street Station with the governor of California and the president of the Santa Fe on board.

That's host Art Linkletter in the striped shirt a few steps above Walt.

Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher:

Where's Bonzo?

Fess, Buddy and Art:

Disneyland guests #1 and 2:

Jerry Colonna with Bob Hope's kids:

Aren't those original character costumes scary?  Tongue Tied

Firelock76
And I'll never forget a line from "Mr. Lincoln's" speech... "As a nation of free men, we shall live forever, or die by suicide!"

I have it on record, tape and CD.  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:27 PM

Buried in a landfill?

Aw foo, now I'll never get a "Nautilus" to cruise around in!

The lead paint wouldn't bother me, I'd want to sail it, not eat it!

You know, my friend Shotgun Charlie and I went to Disney World in Florida in 1975 and the "20,000 Leagues" ride was one we should have gone on but didn't, the line was absolutely horrendous, the worst in the place.  So we passed on it and did "Space Mountain" and were sorry we did.  How'd we know "S-M" was a roller coaster in the dark?  I HATE roller coasters!  It took a half-hour and five cigarettes for me to stop shaking!  Thank God there were no "Smoke-Free" zones back then!

But you better believe we rode the trains and steam-boats!  All live-steam, how could we pass those up?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:28 PM

Postwar Paul
It's funny, but I only remember the grey "Navy" style subs at Disneyland. Perhaps my young mind did not process when the Nautilus subs were running.

Sorry, you're right of course!  The Nautilli were of the 20K version at WDW.

The subs were the Seawolf, Skate, Ethan Allen, Patrick Henry, Nautilus, Triton, Skipjack, and the George Washington.

There were live mermaids too!

Ever wonder what was really going on under there?

Because the lagoon was integral to the Tomorrowland landscape, they couldn't fence it off easily.  So refurbishments took place right out in the open:

Just plain old T-rail:

I always liked the clams:

The subs went yellow in the late 80's and stayed that way till the ride closed in 1998:

Best pic I could find of the passenger hatch:

Notice the Monorail train painted to match the new subs:

This WDW pic shows how the subs were outfitted.  I assume they didn't reinvent the wheel:

Inside the caverns at WDW:

It all just sat for 10 years before they finally tore it down.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, August 12, 2017 8:23 PM

Regarding the Disney railroads, there's a great forum devoted entirely to the subject.  The Disney Railroads Discussion Board: http://www.burnsland.com/disneyrailroads/index.php?sid=2f60ec1cf71bd47b6b248153ddb72e09

2009 photo of the Main Street Magic Shop:

Excuuuuuuseeee meeee!  But guess who worked there!

Yes, that's a teenage Steve Martin working hard as a typesetter putting guests names on wanted posters!  Later on he worked at the news stand at the main entrance:

"There are many ways to see Disneyland.  If you're a first time visitor, you may enjoy the guided tour.  Returning guest will remember the value of ticket books.  The Big 10 and Jumbo 15."  I have the spiel on CD!  Laugh

This is a 1959 photo (above) note that general admission was only a buck and a quarter!  Sigh

I copied this from Yesterland:

From the Disneyland Guide, Summer 1972:

 

A coupon or 10¢

 

  • Main Street Horse Cars (Main Street)
  • Horseless Carriage (Main Street)
  • Omnibus (Main Street)
  • Fire Engine (Main Street)
  • King Arthur Carousel (Fantasyland)
  • Sleeping Beauty Castle (Fantasyland)

 

B coupon or 25¢

 

 

C coupon or 40¢

 

 

D coupon or 70¢

 

  • Rocket Jets (Tomorrowland)
  • PeopleMover presented by Goodyear (Tomorrowland)
  • Flight to the Moon presented by McDonnell Douglas (Tomorrowland)
  • Storybookland Canal Boats (Fantasyland)
  • Skyway (Tomorrowland, Fantasyland)
  • Tom Sawyer Island Rafts (Frontierland)
  • Davy Crockett’s Explorer Canoes (Bear Country)
  • Santa Fe & Disneyland Railroad (Main Street, New Orleans Square and Tomorrowland)
  • Columbia Sailing Ship (Frontierland)
  • Mark Twain Steamboat (Frontierland)

 

E coupon or 85¢ (adults), 75¢ (children)

 

 

Free Shows and Exhibits

 

After the Tiki room, you could go next door for dinner at the Tahitian Terrace:

One of our favorite things to do was to ride the Jungle Cruise at dusk.  Somehow it was more mysterious and the jungle was deeper and darker.

I also loved riding the skyway and seeing the subs cruising the lagoon:

By the way, I should mention that I've never been to Disneyland!  Big Smile  I visited WDW 5 times between 1979 and 1991, so all of my memories are from there:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:46 AM

Once again, most appreciative of your work, and research. I am the other way : been to WDW only once, Disneyland  probably around20 times, give or take.

Thanks for the pictures of the Magic Shop. And the Tiki Room. 

I thought I might add this little nugget :

while foraging through my magazine collection, I found an article in the LGB Telegram from 1995 on the WDW rr. Some interesting points:

1. The railroad is signaled, and will automatically stop a train that runs a red signal

2. There is an electronic overspeed

detector, that will beep and record if a train exceeds 12 miles per hour

3. There is a low boiler water sensor that will beep, and shut off fuel flow to the fire in 90 seconds,if the low water condition is not corrected

4. The locomotive roster( in 1995, if it hasn't changed) is four Baldwin exports, repatriated from the United Railways of Yucatán, and heavily rebuilt, with new boilers, cabs, and tenders

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, August 14, 2017 6:23 PM

It's fun!  Big Smile

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Posted by phrankenstign on Monday, August 14, 2017 9:05 PM

I went to Disneyland only once back in 1965.  My dad shot some super 8 film there, which we watched for years afterward occasionally.  The one thing that was a drag was that the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride with the submarines was having maintenance done on it.  The water had been drained, so we were unable to ride it.  Boooo!!!  Near the cabin that was on fire I remember seeing some natives up a pole trying to escape from the hyenas under them.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, August 14, 2017 9:18 PM

I had forgotten that detail ! They paid attention to the small details at Disneyland. I must say I really miss the Sky Buckets ( I know that's not the correct name).The Fantasyland station had the Swiss style architecture, and Tomorrowland was futureistic. It tied it all together. Plus, it saved a few steps !

Oh, I too have some home movies of Disneyland, that I shot in '71 or '72, with my dad's ancient Bell and Howell regular 8 camera. It's a 200 foot reel, 75% Disneyland, the last quarter is Knott's. In the Disney section, I managed to get off some shots of the Pirates, the Autopia, and people movers, and some fireworks.Also, a shot of the Mark Twain blowing it's whistle, and a shot of the engineer and fireman running the train.In the Knott's section ? The train, of course ! 

The bulbs for the projector are expensive, if you can find them. And, they don't last very long !

One more thing:

none of the shots I took in the Haunted Mansion came out.They were completely black, and unusable. Was it just too dark in there, or were other forces at work ? Kinda makes your hair stand up to think about...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:27 PM

phrankenstign
Near the cabin that was on fire I remember seeing some natives up a pole trying to escape from the hyenas under them.

You wouldn't be thinking of the lost safari, would you?

That's part of the African Veldt on the Jungle Cruise.

Slightly different at WDW:

Here's my rendition of the scene:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:47 PM

The Skyway station in the very early Tomorrowland:

And Fantasyland:

Looks odd without the Matterhorn:

1956, no sprawl!

The "mountain" before the mountain.  Notice the out of place omnibus on what appears to be the Autopia track:

Holy alps Batman!

Inside the ice grottoes:

The Swiss probably say "gondola" but everybody I know calls them buckets.  At any rate, they changed in July of 65, but not all at once!

The system was built by Von Roll and opened in June 1956.  According to Daveland: On April 17, 1994, a 30 year old man jumped from the Skyway, landing in a tree, relatively unharmed. The Skyway was removed 7 months later in November, partially because it was too costly to make safety upgrades. People also threw objects & spit at guests below as they went overhead. For the final ride, Mickey & Minnie made the last crossing as guests watched below. The Fantasyland Skyway station remains, but the Tomorrowland station has been mostly removed and was at one point a service area for the 1998 attraction Rocket Rods. When the Skyway closed, the holes in the Matterhorn were filled in and the supports were dismantled within weeks.

Fantasyland station 2014:

 

Not much of a view here huh?  Tongue Tied

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 7:15 PM

Postwar Paul
none of the shots I took in the Haunted Mansion came out.They were completely black, and unusable. Was it just too dark in there, or were other forces at work ? Kinda makes your hair stand up to think about...

Devil Boo ha ha ha ha!  Mischief

The best pics were shot by Disney people who weren't on a moving ride and could adjust the light levels as they wished!Laugh

Most people's pictures looked like this:

They could also take pics from down below where the "Doombuggies" didn't go:

Guests' view with the figures paused:

Modern self adjusting digital cameras do much better:

I was too fascinated by the dancers and the organist to ever notice that the portraits fought a duel!

I always thought it was amazing how they blended the high tech illusions:

With the good old fashioned "dark ride" tricks that had been around forever:

So, who was the voice of the Haunted Mansion theme, Grim Grinning Ghosts?

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by phrankenstign on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 7:19 PM

That is what I was thinking about.  I'd forgotten the rhino was what they were actually trying to escape from.  The hyenas were just laughing at them!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:41 PM

Thanks again ! Yes, we called them "buckets" too. A classic memory from Disneyland. Sure miss ' em.

Also, judging by the other pictures that have not come out, I am starting to believe there has been no outside intervention.

Clown

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 1:05 PM

More memories are flooding in:

There has always been a strong connection between Walt's movies, and Disneyland attractions.when I was a kid , one movie I loved, and found to be truly magical was 1961's " Babes in Toyland". It had Annette Funicello and Tommy Sands. If you haven't seen it, I would very highly recommend it. Disney magic! Ed Wynn as the toy maker is hilarious ! In the early sixties, the Marching Toy Soldiers were a staple of the Main Street Parade. And, I can remember the trees from the "Forest of no return" on display on Main Street. I think these were the rubber outfits that had been used in the movie. 

This movie is extremely hard to find now, and almost all reference to it has been erased, but it was front and center at Disneyland in the early sixties.

They did run it on TCM a couple years back, and I was able to share this magic with my daughter.

 ( how could I forget to mention this) 

Ray Bolger, who was the scarecrow in" the Wizard of Oz" , is the evil Mr. Barnaby in this movie. These songs were the soundtrack of my childhood! 

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Posted by artyoung on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:31 PM

Penny: The singer of the "Grim Grinning Ghosts" was Thurl Ravenscroft, better known as the voice of Tony the Tiger and the singer of "You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch" in the TV "How the Grinch Stole Christmas".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 6:32 PM

artyoung

Penny: The singer of the "Grim Grinning Ghosts" was Thurl Ravenscroft, better known as the voice of Tony the Tiger and the singer of "You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch" in the TV "How the Grinch Stole Christmas".

 

Big Smile  We have a winner!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 6:48 PM

Quite an army!

Still going strong in 1980:

But of course, if we're going to talk parades...

Cue the Baroque Hoedown!

You can still see it at Disney's California Adventure Park:

By the way, if you think Babes in Toyland is hard to get, try looking for Song of the South.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by artyoung on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 6:54 PM

You can get a copy of "Song of the South", but it'll be the Asian Region DVD. Disney Japan had them, might still be around somewhere.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 6:56 PM

Hey! I just discovered another soldier!

Still looking for those trees...

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:02 PM

Watched a show on Disney film-making a while back, and...

"Babes in Toyland" is a film the Disney organization would prefer to forget.  Those involved at the time said it really wasn't one of their better efforts and just barely broke even at the box office.  However, all the lessons they learned doing "Babes", what to do and what NOT to do they applied to "Mary Poppins," and as we all know that one was a roaring success.   Every time I catch a bit of it I'm still amazed at how good it is.  "M-P" is one of the very few films that are better than the book they're based on, in my opinion anyway.  I read the book when I was in sixth grade, back in the Pleistocene Era.

"Song Of The South,"  not available for obvious reasons here in the US, although copies made for the Japanese market show up here from time to time.  If you don't mind Japanese sub-titles it's the only way to go.  Apparantly it's very popular in Japan.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:14 PM

Just for the sake of fun, let's take a look at the greatest Disneyland model railroad ever built.

If you want to find it, and if it's on display at all, it will be at the Opera House on Main Street.

You may also be lucky enough to see the original model of Sleeping Beauty Castle:

So, if you want to build it all as a model railroad, you better go Z!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:04 PM

Great pictures of the Toy Soldiers! Did not mean to inflict my taste in movies, but was trying to illustrate the point that Disney promoted this film heavily, " once upon a time " . The trees from the " forest of no return" , which is a scene in " Babes in Toyland" , where on display indoors on Main Street, possibly where the pictured layout is displayed. For a small child, it was a " celebrity sighting ", if you can imagine. It was awesome to see ! 

 I went into a Disney store a few years back, they had many videos, and DVD's. When I asked the salesperson if they had " Babes in Toyland", she replied " oh, that old thing..." Disney is trying to destroy all evidence ! But, check it out, if you get a chance. You might be surprised !

Oh, and be careful with Japanese Dvd's. Some countries are formatted differently, and may not play on your machine. Our friend took some U.S. dvd's back to Japan, and could not use them. Another fiend sent a VHS tape from Australia, and it would not play here. But, you can have it converted, though.

Just sayin'

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, August 17, 2017 9:43 AM

I have just had an epiphany:

 maybe this is a Truly Awful movie, and I am the last person on earth that enjoys it. O.K. I can live with that !

Pirate

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, August 17, 2017 5:34 PM

Well I remember seeing "Babes in Toyland" when I was a kid back in the 60's and liked it (hey, when you're a kid you like just about anything that's colorful) but even then I thought the Laurel and Hardy film "March Of The Wooden Soldiers," sometimes called "Babes in Toyland" was a LOT better.  When I was growing up in Northern New Jersey Channel 11 (WPIX) out of New York used to show it every Thanksgiving, and I understand they still do.

God bless Stan and Ollie, they were the best!

Here 'ya go, folks!  The action-packed climax of the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdhg8CyeUo

Nothin' like a good bayonet charge to put a smile on this old Marine's face!

A work of genius film-making.  Eighty-three years have come and gone, there have been other versions of "Babes In Toyland," but no-one, no-one, has topped the 1934 version, ever.

So many remakes of films done in those days have fallen flat.

What did they know about film-making in the 1930's that isn't known now?

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, August 28, 2017 7:58 PM

Hey!  I found something:

From Yesterland: The Babes in Toyland Exhibit operated from December 1961 to September 1963. This display of props from Walt Disney’s 1961 movie Babes in Toyland was the first attraction at the Main Street Opera House. Before that, it had been used as a lumber mill.  

Mostly accurate, the lumber mill was farter down the street and was intended only as a viewblock to a section of the park announced but not built called "International Street".

Moved back a year:

Renamed "Liberty Street", also never built:

And became a coffee shop:

But this is where Disneyland could have had a "Hall of Presidents" if things had worked out differently:

Back to Babes in Toyland, I don't know who these people are, but they're posing in front of some of the props!

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 7:03 PM

It's hard to know with these old memories, but this one was a little clearer than some of the others. Thank You !

Your excellent research seems to indicate my first trip to Disneyland was in '61 or '62, not '59 or '60, as I had originally thought. Babes in Toyland was a big deal then, and they were proud of it, and promoted it at that time. I still have a soft spot for this film, I loved it as a kid.

I am scouring the back pages in my mind for anything we haven't already covered...

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 10:38 PM

Thoughts, memories, and other rubbish...

Also on Main Street, there was a time when Lon Chaney's " Phantom of the Opera" was playing, either at the Opera House ( most likely) , or where " Mr. Leakin'" would later share his Great Moments. This would have probably been the mid sixties. This would have provided a break from August temperatures in Anaheim, to relax and enjoy the A.C. But a 90 minute movie, no matter how good it is, cuts seriously into Ride Time.

  Early Tomorrowland:

as I mentioned before, in my opinion, Tomorrowland did not come into its own until much later. I feel the coming of "Space Mountain" really anchored this area, and competed well with other parts of the park. I remember being thoroughly unimpressed with early Tomorrowland. Imagine the anticipation of waiting in line for "Rocket to the Moon",seeing that impressive, tall rocket. But when you get inside ? Nothing much, just the seats shaking! It was anticlimactic! Then you step outside, and they are flying model airplanes. It just didn't excite.

But in came the People Movers, then Space Mountain, cool stuff! 

What happened to the "Speed Boats" ? I think I only rode this once. It was back behind Autopia. 

They had concerts in Tomorrowland, many big names. Chuck Berry , among others. In the 70's, when Disco was king, my friends and I saw the Tramps ( Disco Inferno) .Remember them ? Tomorrowland had a unique concept for their stage : it would be underground, and the band would start playing, and it would slowly raise up to normal stage height.Really cool effect! And, it would descend as they finished their set. So, Tomorrowland really came a long way from modest beginnings.

Special Nights:

 Disneyland would sell tickets to groups, they would close the park to the public at 7:30, or 8:00. The groups would have the park to themselves from 8:00 to midnight, or 1:00a.m. I went to a few of these.I went with a church group, then " Navy Night", and a night sold to Local Companies, for their employees and children. With the church group, the bus broke down on the way home, and we were out all night !

The Parking Lot

part of the Disneyland experience was pulling into that massive parking lot.( talk about " dude, where's my car ? "). They were so organized, though. A very long multiple unit tram would stop at every corner of that parking lot to pick up passengers." Remember you are parked in section EE". This was the first ride of the day! You could see the monorail, the Matterhorn, and the Main Street Station, and train. This is now "Disney'sCalifornia Adventure", which is cool in it's own way, and parking has moved offsite. I liked seeing Disneyland from the parking lot, and the excitement would build as the tram brings you up to the ticket booth.

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride:

 I think  this was either a "short" , or a scene from a feature length movie, but they made it into a ride.At the end of the ride, you enter a train tunnel, and coming straight at you is a very bright headlight, and all the train sounds. Just at the very moment of impact, the doors swing open, and you are safely back at the loading area. What a relief !

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 7:31 PM

Disney did do a animated feature length movie starring Mr. Toad called "The Wind In The Willows,"  based on the book of the same name, I don't remember the name of the author but I remember reading the book after seeing the Disney film.  Again, I thought the Disney film was a LOT better than the book.  The film was hilarious, especially the ending with Mr. Toad's new hobby!  The book, a bit dry, at least to me.

Just looked it up, Kenneth Grahame wrote the book, a children's novel, in 1908.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:22 PM

Babes in Toyland is available on both DVD and Blu-Ray: https://www.disneystore.com/titles/b/mn/1013602/ as are some of my all time favorite movies:

  1. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
  2. Mary Poppins
  3. The Black Hole
  4. Follow Me Boys
  5. Peter Pan

Come to think of it, since the Disney Co. now does Star Wars and Marvel, if they owned the Star Trek franchise they'd own ALL of my favorite movies!  Tongue Tied  Scary!

Postwar Paul
Lon Chaney's " Phantom of the Opera"

At the Main Street Cinema, of course!  Big Smile

Not reaaallyyy a theatre though!

Ever wonder what Space Mountain reaaaalllyyyy looks like?

Concept sketch for the Moonliner, wouldn't this have been awesome!?!  Bow

The rocket was one of the few things they really had the time and resources to do a good job on for opening day, thanks in large part to TWA of course.

Under the Moonliner you can see how it's engine system modeled the control veins of a V2.  One of the real V2 engines was on display nearby.

Hmmmm.....this guy looks familiar....

I wonder how much Harry would weigh on the moon without his hat?

In 1960 sponsorship switched to Douglas:

The Phantom Boats:

The original versions were a mechanical nightmare and had the habit of stranding guests in the lagoon.  The second version vessels of the "Motor Boat Cruise" had a better operational record but they weren't popular:

But they did last into the 90's.  Here's the dock as it looks nowadays:

Tomorrowland Terrace:

It was a pop-up!

Still in use:

Hmmm....isn't this guy on the right a model railroader?

Or does he just look like one?  Big Smile

Arrival:

What a classic car show!

Hop on the tram:

Mark your ticket:

Buy your ticket books:

And maybe a balloon or two Laugh

And welcome to the Happiest Place on Earth!

Nowadays....

There's just a gaggle of multi-level parking structures like you'd see in any and every major city.  Stick out tongue

That's one piece that isn't lost in Orlando.  You'll always (we hope and pray) be separated from the Magic Kingdom by the Seven Seas Lagoon.  I remember the old days, when you drove for miles through forests on a twisting turning road before you had any sight at all of Walt Disney World.  And then when you finally got the car parked and rode the trams into the Transportation and Ticket Center, you found yourself separated from the park by an enourmous (to a kid anyways) body of water.  On the boat ride over they'd tell you all about the new and exciting things they were working on.  (We usually took the ferry because there were always huge lines for the Monorails.  We'd ride them in the afternoons or during parades when they were less crowded.)  But that sense of anticipation was only heightened by being made to wait "just a bit longer" to finally get to Disney World!  Big Smile

Toad Hall:

Mr. Toad is from "The Wind in the Willows" which was released as "The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad".

Don't ride with this guy:

Or this guy:

Or this guy!

Audie Murphy was probably safer!

It looks much prettier now:

It's interresting how some rides flourished on one coast and flopped on the other.  Mr Toad's Wild: Western success, eastern flop.  Country Bear Jamboree: Western flop, eastern success.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, August 31, 2017 12:22 AM

Thanks for the great pictures, brings back those great memories. I practically grew up there.Here's a few more:

The ( does it really matter ?) Horn.

Many of the rides at Disneyland, especially the most popular ones, had 2 separate lines, and 2 separate tracks. This was true of Autopia, the Speed Boats, People Movers, and many others. The Matterhorn Bobsleds had 2 lines, one wrapping around the right side of the mountain, one around the left. This was obviously to allow more people to be able to ride. My older brother, in his quest to maximize the number of rides in the time allowed, and to maximize the thrill level, had somehow become convinced that the Matterhorn Bobsled track on the right ran at a higher, and more thrilling speed than the one on the left. So, the brainwashing continued, to the point 2 young fools would go out of their way to seek out the track on the right at all costs, and would prefer to wait in a long line, or come back later to ride the one on the right. I look at it now and wonder " what were we thinking? " .

Right next to the Matterhorn was the "Alice in Wonderland " ride. Many of the rides in Fantasyland were based on Walt's animated pictures, and this ride was one of the best.I always remember that track that was pure fantasy, resembling giant leaves , you would zig zag your way into  Alice's world. There was a "Snow White" ride, and the witch was somewhat menacing.I was very young when I last went on this one, but my Mom recalls what felt like spider webs dangling, and touching as you went through. Many of the rides in Fantasyland were some of the very oldest at Disneyland, and were completely revamped a few years back. Peter Pan : what a makeover!

I like your picture of the Hills Brothers Coffee house on Main Street. I remember very well. There was also a Carnation Ice cream parlor. There was also a Penny Arcade, and I have a vague memory of a place with an Orange Juice drink, maybe some kind of Ice Cream float. Lots of refreshments for hot summer days !

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, August 31, 2017 5:48 PM

Great pictures!

I rode Space Mountain at Walt Disney World with my friend Shotgun Charlie back in 1975.  How'd we know it was a roller coaster in the dark?  Maybe all the screams we were hearing should have clued us in.

Thank goodness there were no "smoke-free" zones back then.  After the ride it took a half-hour and five cigarettes for me to stop shaking.

"Hey Wayne, you wanna go again?"

"%&#$ NO!"

I-don't-like-roller-coasters!

We just LOVED the live steam trains though!  As I recall, the lake ferrys were steam-powered as well and looked a lot like Hudson River steamers from the 1890's.  I've got some slides I took then somewhere here in the "Fortress Firelock,"  but who knows where?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, August 31, 2017 8:22 PM

Holiday Hill:

Also known as Snow Hill, you could ride up there to look at the park from the high vantage point.

Walt introduces the Matterhorn.  Notice that the model of Sleeping Beauty Castle shows it in it's original configuration with the top half reversed from what was built.

The new topper for Holiday Hill:

The ques from the top:

The Christmas Star:

Alice:

Everybody visited Disneyland!  From Liz Taylor to the King of Thailand.

After the 1982 remodel of Fantasyland:

Teacups next door:

Well THIS Alice certainly looks like she's in "wonderland"

This one's a bit better:

Original exterior:

and after 1982:

Karma?

Cobwebs a plenty!

But what your mom probably felt was the Spanish Moss-like stuff hanging from the trees in the forest:

Sometimes it had "sails"

Let's ride my favorite ride with Walt!

Note the emergency exit

Quite a bit different after 82

Florida looks more like the original

Just a couple of doors down from the Penny Arcade

You could eat your ice cream in the flower market.

The main shop became a bakery as the ice cream shop moved into the courtyard where the plastic flowers were once displayed.

ummmm....where are the machines?

Well at least Esmeralda is still there!

Accross the street was the Srystal Arcade.  But it didn't have penny machines.

Your best bet for an orange drink was at the Sunkist Citrus House:

It's the Gibson Girl Ice Cream Parlor now:

If you'll excuse me I think I need one of these!  Smile, Wink & Grin

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, September 1, 2017 7:38 PM

Some of what I've been working on...

East Main Street

Opera House

This is why I need a new Main Street....

That also means a new Tomorrowland to go along with it.

And it packs a lot of firepower too.  The tall section towards the left with the four circles in octagons has ten 14 volt bulbs in that one small piece alone and the whole facade will need at least 12 more.  Luckily the 100 14v gow's I ordered from Hong Kong arrived today and I won't need to have half finished models all over the place waiting for the package to arrive.

So mini Disneyland is moving ahead one facade at a time.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, September 1, 2017 10:18 PM

Great pictures once again ! The Orange Juice place was indeed Sunkist. I never realized there was a hill existing at Disneyland before the Matterhorn was built. I've never seen Disneyland without the Matterhorn! It's such a landmark, you can see from all over

Let me start this again:

Jusr Writin' ma memoirs...

  dee point I be tryin' to make mon, is dee Matterhorn she be goin' up too tracs, and be splittin' at dee top. Dose dat bee entrain' from dee right bee off in' from dee right no problem, mon. Dose from dee left bee go dat way too. Irie. iriE.Pass dee Dutchie, mon.

It's hard to suppress me inner Bob Marley...

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, September 1, 2017 10:25 PM

Now that I've shown that guy the door, your models are fantastic. I have got to get back to Disneyland again, it's been since 2008, so I must be due. The quality of the lighting at Disneyland is a memory all by itself. For example,the boarding area for the Mark Twain at night is truly remarkable. Hundreds of small bulbs tracing the outline of the boarding structure. This is what you would call creating a mood with light. And Main Street itself is a really excellent example of the use of lighting. Basically, using hundreds of small bulbs to outline structures creates an old time feel. Nowadays, we tends to use much fewer , but maybe more powerful lights. There was a time that electrical lighting was considered modern, coming out of the gas lamp era. Main Street creates the atmosphere at night with the lighting. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, September 2, 2017 10:54 AM

Paul, yout last comment reminds me of something I read a while back.

When Tomas Edison was going to give his first public demonstration of electric lighting it was in the winter of 1880.  Edison rigged electric lights around the exterior of the Menlo Park lab and just before the evening of the demonstration there was a light snowfall, not enough to keep people away but just enough to carpet the ground.

After dark, when Edison threw the switch not only did the lamps work perfectly but the fresh-fallen snow intensified the effect, those who saw it said it looked like a winter fairyland.  Some were moved to tears at the sheer beauty.

"...coming out of the gas lamp era"  indeed!  Can you imagine what it was like?

Some wondered openly how the "Wizard of Menlo Park" managed to arrange for a snowfall!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, September 2, 2017 3:05 PM

Yes, and can you imagine to have been in Paris ( the city of light) , about 1899, in Montmartre? It must have been exciting when cities electrified their lighting. It was high tech stuff.

Maybe we talk a little about Tom Sawyers Island. My brother and I really loved this place, it was quite easy to spend a couple of hours there. Just a lot of good , old fashioned entertainment. First, there was the raft ride to get out there. Many trails around the island. Things you would expect, like a pontoon bridge. I think there was a fort of some sort. But the main attraction was the caves, and underground passages, and there were several, including " *** Joe's Cave" . They seemed to crisscross the island. My brother and I became separated somehow, but just as " all roads lead to Rome" ,we both managed to pop up at the fort at the same time. We grabbed a cold drink at a stand there at the fort. There was a gift shop, and I bought a flashlight ( how did they know? So useful for the caves ) . One cave had some stalacmite and stalactite formations. I think there was a suspension bridge of some sort also. One of the caves actually popped up right inside the fort .

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 2, 2017 6:40 PM

Postwar Paul
dee point I be tryin' to make mon, is dee Matterhorn she be goin' up too tracs, and be splittin' at dee top. Dose dat bee entrain' from dee right bee off in' from dee right no problem, mon. Dose from dee left bee go dat way too. Irie. iriE.Pass dee Dutchie, mon.

Yeah this pic here was about the best one I could find that showed both the left and right boarding platforms:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 2, 2017 8:11 PM

It's been since 1991 for me!  Tongue Tied

Postwar Paul
The quality of the lighting at Disneyland is a memory all by itself.

I've never seen anyone better at capturing that magic than Matthew Hansen: https://hansencreative.smugmug.com/Disney/Disneyland/

The Twain (which I never get tired of looking at!):

Except for the peaks of BTM, it doesn't look much different from this 1956 view:

Walt's plan for Main Street was to have it represent the "turn of technology".  The period when "Old Dobbin was being replaced by the horseless carriage, and the gas light was giving way to the electric lamp".  Most of us rush past everything too quickly to notice the planned ambiance.  At least not till later in life.  Smile, Wink & Grin  What do kids know about ambiance anyways!  Laugh

From the 1962 guided tour script "Main Street is patterned after a typical, small American town at the turn of the century. All of the business establishments on Main Street were in business at the turn of the century or are of the same type as those found then. The gaslights are authentic and were brought from cities as Philadelphia, Baltirmore and some older sections of Los Angeles. There are many interesting and unusual shops along Main Street I'm sure you'll want to visit later. You might also like to stop by Carefree Corner, the official information and registration center here in the park. They have a registration book from each of the 50 states. They will be happy to present you with a souvenir copy of the Declaration of Independence. Incidentally, if you are just a bit worn out at the end of your tour, remember to stop by the Upjohn Pharmacy for your free vitamin pills. As we walk up Main Street I will point out the many shops to you so you may visit them after the tour if you like. A small sign above the east tunnel entrance states: Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy. Let's now go up Main Street U.S.A. for a look at the world of yesterday."

The architects model for Main Street:

Somehow you just can't beat a black and white photo for capturing those simple lamps:

And there are the windows of course:

The lighting was based largely on the 3 great turn of the century parks of Coney Island: Luna, Steeplechase and Dreamland.

20,000 leagues Under the Sea at Luna:

There was also a Matterhorn but I couldn't find a photo.

Ever hear of Nara Dreamland?  Tongue Tied  IKt's the park in Japan that looked like it was built using Disneyland postcards and Pola buildings as a guide!  Smile, Wink & Grin

In it's heyday:

The opening of a "real" Disneyland in 1982 essentially spelled D-O-O-M for this knock-off.  It sat abandoned for years as time did it's task.

Tell me that's NOT a Pola church!  Laugh

I'll leave you with the name of this coaster to contemplate...

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 2, 2017 8:55 PM

Rafts

Tom and Huck's treehouse

Old Mill

Fishing pier

Pontoon bridge

Castle Rock

Fort Wilderness

The secret tunnel (who puts a sign on one of these things? Laugh)

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 3, 2017 10:20 PM

Oh, those pictures, and the memories they stir ! The island was fun ! I think my flashlight came from the trading post.

Thinking now about:

RideS You can control yourself.

Number one on this list would be Autopia. I think Walt Disney had a good grasp on what would be interesting to kids. What kid would not want to drive a car ? Autopia gave kids that opportunity. There was a rail in the center of the road that would catch the car if it got too far off track. You had about a 2 foot leeway left or right before the rail would catch, and prevent the car from going off the road. And, you did not even have to steer at all, and just let the rail guide you. But, kids loved driving the cars ! But power was very limited, and you only had a brake and gas petal. You would get in, and step on the gas petal all the way to the floor, and very slowly, that big hemi of what seemed like a lawnmower engine would slowly get you up to a full 5 mph. But, you were really driving, turning the wheel, and everything. Kids loved it. When teenage years came, there are some things that would only occur to a teenage mind. " Hey, let's not use the brake at all, and slam into cars that are stopped in front of us " . It became bumper cars ! Fortunately, Disney thought of everything,and the bumpers were heavily sprung, and had a rubber coating. The steering wheels had a thick rubber covering as well. My daughter loved driving when she was younger as well, although only I could reach the petals. It was a team sport ! They added a nice touch though. They gave her an Autopia driver's license.

what I call the " Speed Boats" ( actually that's hilarious when you think of the actual speed) , and is really called the " Motor Boat Cruise" was right next door to Autopia. Same concept: you drive it yourself. Same lawnmower engine... Petal to the metal, very little actually happening...

The tea cups. 

 This was fun for a family, or group. The cups were mounted on a spinning turntable,and in the center of each cup was what looked like a round coffee table . Everyone would grab the table and turn it with all their might. This would Make the tea cup spin at a dizzying speed on what was already a spinning turntable. Riotous laughter would break out trying to see how fast we could make it spin. Then came the hard part: trying to stand up and walk once the ride ended...

The Rocket Jets

 in old Tomorrowland, these simple looking rockets spinning on a center rocket appeared to be one of the most basic carnival rides. But there was a twist: each rocket had a lever you could move to make the rocket go up or down ! You controlled the height. If I remember correctly, Dumbo also had this ability to control the height.

talking about Nara Dreamland, I was not aware of this. But in '99 and 2001 when my daughter was small, we went to Sanrio Puroland. This is a theme park outside of Tokyo based on the Sanrio characters. Batz Maru, Hello Kitty, and the whole gang. Rides, parades, gift shops, and shows. 

A wee revision:

I am remembering only 1 petal in the Autopia cars, push it down to go, release and brakes would apply, somewhat gently.

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 4, 2017 7:42 PM

In 1955 highways were "futuristic".  So deciding to put one in Tomorrowland was sort of a "no-brainer" but since nobody knew what a mini freeway would look like, it took some doing to come up with it.  In the early days the cars had bumpers, not rails and were styled by Bob Gurr after "a Porsche 550 Spider and a custom Ferrari he had once seen":

And employee "cops" patrolled the roads in cars that ran just a tiny bit faster than tghe ones the guests used:

Around 1957 the lanes narrowed but the "bumper car style" operation remained:

The second loading station:

And check out the cars of the 60's!

The modern version:

But wait!  There's more!

The autopia was so popular they built a second version!  It was called the "Midget Autopia", "Junior Autopia" or "Fantasyland Autopia".  The loading station was just a tent.  It boarded adjacent to the very short lived "Mickey Mouse Club Circus" which you can see in the background..  (The tent was later used as a picnic grounds behind Fantasyland)

Early on it looked a lot like it's Tomorrowland sibling:

But it evolved into more of a "kiddie ride":

Mad Tea Party.

This one's from opening day, July 18, 1955:

If you said Disneyland opened on July 17th, you'd be half right!  That day was for press and invited guests only.  The 18th is when the park officially started receiving guests.  And here they are, guests #1 and #2:

Back to the tea party...compare this photo from the 50's:

To this modern view:

The added landscaping is really effective at making you feel like you're in another world and not just a feet feet away from the ride next door!  Big Smile  And talk about a great use of lighting!  YesBig Smile

The original 1956 Astro Jets:

Definitely styled to match the Moonliner!

In 1966 Tomorrowland was remodeled and the jets came off the ground and went up on top of the new "Rocket Tower" which also housed the Peoplemover:

Less "Buck Rogers" and more "Cape Canaveral":

In 1998 Tomorrowland received yet another facelift and this time around it took on the "Retro Futurism" look which is also known as "Steampunk".  Now known as the "Astro Orbitor", it's back down on the ground:

In fact, it's out in front of the old Peoplemover track at the entrance to Tomorrowland:

Which in my opinion places it too close to the hub:

Disneyland has alsways been a bit tight, but this is too close to Sleeping Beauty Castle in my opinion.

Dumbo did have the same type of control.  You can see the joystick here:

The early packy derms weren't too comfortable looking:

They were also a lot harder to get in and out of.  Maybe some guests complained!

And yes, that's Jayne Mansfield!  Big Smile  The Dumbii eventually got cutouts for far easier loading:]

Compare the original machine in the photo above with the gold plated version that was installed in 1982:

My versions of Dumbo, the Mad Tea Party, the Autopia and the Astro Orbitor.  (To keep it in Lionel-land Big Smile):

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 5, 2017 10:40 PM

Break it to me gently:

so, the People Mover is gone ? There is no justice! I really liked that one, and I thought it added a lot to Tomorrowland. I recall riding the early Astro Jets, and making them go up and down. And I remember the '66 remodel, because I have a fear of heights, and they kinda creeped me out. Only 1 time after the remodel. Too high up !

Disneyland keeps changin', the things that have come, and gone.

I really think your models are great, and you have done it justice.

Bravo !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, September 6, 2017 8:24 PM

Postwar Paul
the People Mover is gone ?

Sad to say, yes, one of the most creative rides is just a skeleton these days.  Tongue Tied  But in better days:

The Peoplemover (1967 to 1995) was based on technology WED designed for the Ford pavillion at the 1964 New York World's Fair.  It was called the "Magic Skyway":

The real "highway in the sky" Big Smile

The outshoot of the concept was that the peoplemover was supposed to become the basic public transportation system of EPCOT.  And if you know anything about what EPCOT was supposed to be, you know it didn't mean "theme park".

Tomorrowland was the "long term test-bed" for much of the EPCOT technology and had Walt lived, his Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow would have been built.  It's hard to say whether it would have succeeded, but it definately would have been built.

The track was early tech though, and nowhere near as advanced as the system that was installed at Walt Disney World.  Where the original version used rubber tires to coax the vehicles along, the later WDW system relies on magnetic induction to pull and then push the cars down the track.

In 1995 the Peoplemover closed and was replaced for a short time by the problematic "Rocket Rods"

While the Peoplemover glided you around Tomorrowland for 16 minutes, the Rocket Rods did the whole tour in 3!

That crazy thing that you're looking at in the background of the photo above isn't a ride.  It's what replaced the Astro Jets on top of Rocket Tower Plaza.  It's called the "Observatron" and it just sort of whirls around on it's own.

After being closed a lot, the Rods shut down permanently in September of 2000 after only a 2 year run.

I don't have a lot of room to play with, but I hope to build a little representation of the Peoplemover some day:

I'll probably only be able to build a simple "dogbone" track between the Orbitor and the entrance plaza. Clearance issues make it impracticable to have it tour much of Tomorrowland since it would be 12 inches off the floor to cross over the Monorail.  But I could easily modify the Skyway buckets for a reasonable facsimile:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 6, 2017 11:12 PM

Thank You so much for that tour, and the background info. The people Movers were cool, and they gave you an overview of this corner of Disneyland. They also dipped into some of the rides, and displays in Tomorrowland, and gave a bit of a " sampler". You could decide what you wanted to see next. I guess the last couple of visits to Disneyland, I never even noticed they were gone. I'll miss them, just like the skyway.  Probably years of wear and tear take their toll, and Disney probably has to justify the popularity of the ride, and the ridership, versus having repair vehicles custom made. At least that sounds like it might be a reason to discontinue a ride. Autopia is very popular, and they keep coming out with upgraded vehicles. Motor Boat Cruise faded away.

I see on your models you have Space Mountain, and the Astro Jets. Glad you modeled those, they're classics. My brother and I tried to hit as many rides as possible, but we had our "short list" . In younger years, that was Tom Sawyer's, the Trains ( the big train around the perimeter) and Nature's Wonderland. Mark Twain, and the Horse Cars on Main Street.

In teen years, it was all about the Pirates,  the Haunted Mansion, and the Matterhorn. Space Mountain came along later, and I am sure it would have been on our short list, too. We discovered we could ride these popular rides early in the day, then they would be too crowded all day, and we would check out other things. But, after 9 p.m., the lines would shorten, and you could go back for a "second helping". The crowds really thinned out after the fireworks.

The last time at Disneyland, I don't remember the Horse Cars, the Omnibus, or the antique autos on Main Street. Is this something that became impractical with the heavy foot traffic on Main Street ? Many times there are throngs of people walking, it must be very difficult to maneuver a vehicle safely.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, September 7, 2017 9:03 PM

Space Mountain is one of those rides that it's just become impossible to think of a Disney Park being without.

Walt Disney always wanted to do a "roller coaster type ride in the dark" and planning was well under way in his life-time.  But they knew they couldn't do it during the 1966 remodel of Tomorrowland and decided to develop it for the Florida project first.

The WDW mountain is much bigger than the Disneyland version because it features 2 track operation.  I also love the fact that since the mountain is outside the WDWRR right of way, you have to go through a long tunnel to get there.  That keeps the lines hidden inside and you may not know how long the wait is until your deep within it!  Laugh

Space Mountain opened at Disneyland in 1977 in the "expansion area" behind Main Street where International Street, Liberty Street and Edison Square had all been planned, announced but never built.

All three of those would have been great, but personally I'm glad they built Space Mountain instead!  Big Smile  Here's the opening day line:

Oh yeah, it's an E-Ticket ride allright!

In 1998 Tomorrowland was revamped again and they painted the mountain copper, gold and green!  Ick!

It looked better at night!

And while it no longer matches the rest of Tomorrowland, it went back to white in 2003.

And the rest of Tomorrowland followed suit!

So why the "grunge look"?  At Euro Disneyland in Paris the steampunk look was a big hit.  Believing that it would catch hold in the U.S., Disney patterned it's 1998 revamp after Euro Disney's "Discoveryland".

Thus turning the Anaheim incarnation into a bronze and brass "retro futurists" paradise.

By the way, did you know that Space Mountain is supposed to fly?  Smile, Wink & Grin

Postwar Paul
But, after 9 p.m., the lines would shorten

That's where the "extended stay" guest benefits over the "single day" ticket holder.  We always planned which days to watch the parades and fireworks and which days to ride the E-Ticket attractions when most people were sitting on Main Street.  Speaking of which, as far as I know all the vehicles are still there, but I'd guess that during peak times (opening and closing hours) they may be parked to allow for the heavy morning and evening pedestrian traffic.  (These are older pics)

Walt loved to zip around the park in the fire engine in the early morning light.

There are a few that don't see active use.

And one that left the park:

The Carnation truck "In the late 1990's, the manager of the Carnation Farms located in Carnation, Washington and home of the founder of the Carnation Company was given the truck for the museum at the farm. The truck was restored and repainted and is now on display at the farm. It even occasionally motors around the farm at special events."

Disneyland had a much larger stable when the park opened so it's easy to see why there are fewer horse-drawn vehicles these days.  But in 1955, there were a lot of horses around:

However equine transportation can be a tad unpredictable.

Them's the cowboys.  Here's the "other guys":

Too bad I don't have room to model this!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, September 7, 2017 11:25 PM

The first time I rode Space Mountain was about October '78. This was the same day we were serenaded by the Tramps ( " Disco Inferno"), at Tomorrowland Terrace. It was always a surprise who would be performing there, but it may have been posted on the Marquee at the entrance to the parking lot. Regardless, we had already planned to go this day, and we were lucky with the entertainment! My first impression of Space Mountain? We liked it, but didn't quite know what to make of it. It is dark, and you see an occasional light, like rocketing through Space, and seeing distant stars and planets. The last time on Space Mountain was 2005. My daughter and I rode, and we absolutely loved it ! I did hear there had been some revamping and refurbishing of the ride, and it was great! They had fitted speakers into the seat backs in the ride, and my daughter loved the soundtrack ! I don't recall that detail from '78, maybe an enhancement. So, the verdict is in : it's cool !

I always have memories of old Main Street. The horse cars, the double decker omnibus, and the old time cars. When I was a kid, these vehicles were plentiful on Main Street, and they were always blowing the horn ( which was literally that, a horn with a rubber bulb on one end). They were warning pedestrians with the horn, but there were so many vehicles! Up and down Main Street. And you could ride them, I think it was an A ticket. The horse cars were my favorite.

 Some things I remember very clearly, other things not as well. If that is the boarding area for the canoe,  I barely remember anything about boarding. Yet, I remember rowing the canoe.Why ?

Bakuzz:

they boarded us, and gave the quickest," down and dirty" instruction on  paddling. I either was not taking notes, or too young to grasp the technique required. So, instead of rowing efficiently with the oar making nice clean strokes in the water, I was splashing and churning up a storm. Unfortunately, there was a kid sitting right behind me who 

well, you get the picture...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, September 8, 2017 6:30 PM

Yes that was the "enhanced mission" Space Mountain which also featured "Rockin' Space Mountain".  You can see the speakers in the headrests:

There's also the "Ghost Galaxy Space Mountain" for Halloween:

And now, "Hyperspace Mountain"

I suppose the ride vehicles are X-Wings now.

The Indian War Canoes and later Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes:

Water's a bit close to the gunwales don't ya think?

They changed the dock to this design at some point:

Davy's versions came after the American Indian Village closed and became Bear Country (now Critter Country since the Jamboree is gone).

A couple of them are holding the oars the right way!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, September 8, 2017 11:49 PM

Well,that's cool ! What I remember about the canoe: it was an Indian that gave the instruction. And I remember how mad that kid behind me got ! Sorry, didn't mean to splash. Some rides nowadays are actually intended to get you soaked. I guess I'm ahead of my time ! 

 Your models are great ! Now, I need a train project. All my Lionel is running perfectly at the moment. Guess I need to build something.  I've really enjoyed this forum. Learned a lot about Disneyland, thank you. We may have covered just about everything.

Now, what to build ?

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:00 PM

Hey !

 in talking to people, the rumor keeps surfacing that one track on the Matterhorn is indeed faster than the other, or at least the final drop is more severe. Maybe my brother was right.

This may require some field research to verify...

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, September 17, 2017 4:40 PM

I've never been to Disneyland, but do they really call that mountain the Matterhorn?

I remember the Disney movie "Third Man On The Mountain" with James MacArthur, Janet Munro, and Michael Rennie and if memory serves the mountain (which sure looked like the Matterhorn) was called "The Citadel!"

I had to put emphasis on "The Citadel"  because I never forgot the way the narrator pronounced it, sounded scary, dangerous, and doom-laden.

On the other hand, in that classic monster movie "The Crawling Eye" they use a shot of the Matterhorn but call it "The Trollenberg."

It's been decades since I've seen "TMOTM" but I remember it was a good movie!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 17, 2017 6:46 PM

Yes, it is officially the Matterhorn, and the ride is "Matterhorn Bobsleds". It was an E ticket ride back in the day. There was a time also that one of the highlights of the evening would be Tinkerbell descending from the mountain ( probably on a zip line) under full spotlights. It was really magical for kids ! 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 17, 2017 6:59 PM

Firelock76
I've never been to Disneyland, but do they really call that mountain the Matterhorn?

Oh yeah!  Here's the story in short from the website where I get all these photos from:

The Matterhorn

BACKSTORY (June 14, 1959—Present): Originally a dirt mound created from what was removed to make the moat around Sleeping Beauty Castle. First named Holiday Hill and then Lookout Mountain, Park Operations staff continually had to keep a look out due to its unofficial status as “Lover’s Lane.”

The Matterhorn was conceived by Disney during two trips he made to Switzerland: first in July 1953 and then five years later in July 1958 during filming of “Third Man on the Mountain.” Born out of the desire to hide the unsightly Skyway pylon, the Matterhorn was one of six new major attractions for Tomorrowland in 1959 (however, it has always been designated a Fantasyland attraction). Supposedly, Walt sent a postcard featuring the Matterhorn back to the states with the edict “Build this.” Walt was discouraged by (Admiral) Joe Fowler when he wanted to “make some snow and have a toboggan ride.” Difficulties in creating the snow and drainage were circumvented by using steel, wood, plaster, and paint. At 147' high, it is a 1/100th replica of its Swiss namesake and the tallest structure inside Disneyland.

It is recognized as the first tubular steel roller coaster in the world, and was built by coaster builder Arrow Dynamics and WED Imagineering. What was Walt’s response when he first saw the completed attraction? Legend has it that he said, “It’s 10' too short.”

Making glacial ice in a parking lot:

The concrete was spread from the top down to prevent drips from fouling the finished details:

The "horn":

The "real" Matterhorn doesn't have so many holes it it though  Laugh:

The alp:

My alp:

It may not be as accurate as Disney's version, but mine is a lot easier to move around!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 17, 2017 7:22 PM

Postwar Paul
Tinkerbell

They've started doing that again:

You can see the wires and harness in this one:

But the tradition was begun in 1961 by Tiny Kline:

She was 72 when she started doing it!  YesBig Smile

From Wikipedia:

  1. Tiny Kline

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Tiny Kline (born Helen Deutsch,[1] June 21, 1891 - July 5, 1964)[2] was a Hungarian-born[3] circus performer. She performed for Barnum & Bailey and Disneyland.

    Life and career

    In 1905, Kline immigrated to the United States with a dance troupe.[3] She lived at the Clara de Hirsch home for immigrant girls.[4] She started as a burlesque dancer, but moved on to perform in the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus as Tiny Duchée.[5] There, she met rodeo trick rider Otto Kreinbrink (stage name Otto Kline). Two years later, they married. When he died during a ride, she took over and learned acrobatic tricks, including the "aerial iron jaw act", where she would be suspended by the mouth on a long glide wire.

    In 1961, Walt Disney began a search for a flying Tinker Bell to wow crowds at Disneyland. Kline was hired to glide down a wire connecting the Matterhorn to Sleeping Beauty's Castle.[3] She retired from playing Tinker Bell in 1964. Tiny was scheduled to return as Tinker Bell that same year, but she died from stomach cancer before coming out of retirement.[6] At the time of her death Tiny left the bulk of her estate to the Clara de Hirsch Home. Tiny Kline is buried in Inglewood Park Cemetery in Inglewood, Los Angeles, California.

    References

  2. Kline, Tiny. (2008). Circus Queen and Tinker Bell: The Memoir of Tiny Kline. Edited by Janet M. Davis. University of Illinois Press.
  3. Tiny H. Kline - Death Record
  4. Tinker Bell bio on MousePlanet. Retrieved on 2009-10-14.
  5. Zemeckis, Leslie (2013). Behind The Burly Q. Delaware: Skyhorse. ISBN 978-1-62087-691-6.
  6. Ladley, Diane A. Haunted Naperville. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Publishing, 2009. 87.
  7. Disneyland Tinkerbell Fought Pain, Death Alone

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 17, 2017 8:15 PM

By the way, when I worked at Cedar Point from 1988 to 1991 it was almost a daily ritual for me to ride around the park behind the real coal fired locos of the Cedar Point and Lake Erie Railroad.

I would get off work (in theory) at 8pm and during the midnight closing days I could have up to 3 hours to play in the park in the evenings.  So, after changing clothes at the dorm, I would head back in to the park, eat some corn dogs and greasy french fries and go ride the trains and roller coasters.  Most of the time I'd eat at the Iron Dragon Cafe and then ride the Iron Dragon coaster afterward.  Then I'd head over and take the trip to the back of the park.

Here's the CP&LE yard and shop:

The red buildings beyond were the boy's dorms in the old 1914 built Cedars Hotel.  The girl's dorms were in the center of the park very close to the Iron Dragon.

My favorite loco was Albert, a 1910 Davenport 2-6-0:

And then there was Maud L., a 1902 Baldwin 2-4-4T:

This loco was traded in 1999 and became Disneyland's "Ward Kimball":

And the CP&LE got this 1927 Davenport 2-4-4T which was running at Disney World as the "Ward Kimball":

It was too big for the Disneyland Railroad and was not up to the task of pulling the heavy WDW trains.  But why the CP&LE Baldwin succeeded at Disneyland and the Davenport failed I'm not sure.  But I did love watching little Maud run!  Big Smile

Other CP&LE beauties.

Judy K:

Myron H:

George R:

Jennie K:

Roger Linn:

D. B. Harrington:

This one, the Ida P., only came to CP for restoration work:

And then there's this little one:

The Plymouth diesel made to look like a steam loco!  Big Smile

A great little railroad!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 17, 2017 10:29 PM

Wow !

Those are some fine steamers! 3 foot gauge, I take it?

The Ward Kimball is very similar in appearance to the Grizzly Flats Chloe that I have in G. The real Chloe was one of Ward's engines. I think it had originally been a Hawaiian sugar cane plantation engine. There's a sister engine " Olomana" that is on display in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. ( That place is superb, as a Pennsylvania nut) . 

I would not be surprised if many of C.P.'S locomotives had originated in plantation service. The Railroad Press had a series of books, 1-4 on Hawaiian railroads. I have 3 out of 4. The plantation engines had that look to them. Heavy on the Baldwin, Porter, and Vulcan. Great looking engines! 

 

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Posted by cnw1995 on Monday, September 18, 2017 9:33 AM

This is such an interesting thread. I am learning so much - I had no idea so many things had corporate sponsors. I was able to visit WDW pretty soon after it opened in 1971, and had a blast. I hope they keep steam. My kids worked at Cedar Point for a few summers and they kept saying CedarFair planned to phase them out. One thing I remember about Orlando in late 1971 was our jet passing slew of B-52s back when the airport was shared with the Air Force.  

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 18, 2017 8:00 PM

Here's the website where I found info on the C.P.&L.E.: http://www.cplerr.com/  If you go to this sub-page: http://www.cplerr.com/erWardkimball.html it gives a brief history of the engines traded between Disney and CP.

Here's Chloe from the Orange Empire Railway Museum http://www.oerm.org/3-foot-gauge-grizzly-flats/:

1 0-4-2RT Switcher Baldwin 1907  

and Maud L:

CP&LE #1

   
 
Wheels: 2-4-4T
Builder: Baldwin Locomotive Works
Build Date:  1902
Empty Weight: 15 Tons
Weight on Drivers: 10.5 Tons
Driver Diameter: 30"
Tractive Effort: 4810 Lbs.
Operating Pressure: 150 lbs
Cylinders:

9x14''

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 18, 2017 8:38 PM

I was a coaster riding nut back in those days.  I was there during the transition from CP being the "Amazement Park" (or abusement park as we called it) to "America's Roller Coast".  I was able to ride the Magnum before the brakes were installed and the Mean Streak before all the bolts had been tightened!  Mischief

We worked 80 hours a week with only one day off a week and management usually wanted us to work them too!  Confused  You got minimum wage (about 5.35 at that time) and were hired basically as a "contractor".  That meant if you got sick you were in breach of contract!  SoapBox  It didn't matter if they sent you to their doctor and the doctor said you were sick or injured, you still got docked for it!  Angry

Not exactly a "Disney style" operation.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, September 18, 2017 10:39 PM

I've ridden a coaster or two as well. My daughter and I used to ride them at Knott's. When she was 6, and tall enough, we went on Ghostrider. That's a classic wooden coaster, and the track actually has steel straps laid on top of the wood for the wheels to roll on. I mention this because you can feel every bump and jolt, and it feels probably twice the speed, although it is really moving. We still have that picture, and the look of pure excitement on our faces. We rode many times.

One time on Ghostrider, you go up an enormous hill at the beginning, and after you crest, the first big drop. This is where they shoot your picture. Well, we crested the hill, and started barreling down, and something appeared in front of my face. Suspended weightless in front of me was an eyeglass case. I tried to grab it, but couldn't. It was just floating there! We hit the bottom of the hill, and all kinds of things started to happen, twisting, turning, sliding in the seats to one side. Then the other side.Finally, it was over, and my daughter and I were laughing, and talking about how much fun it was. I told her someone's glasses floated past me. We laughed. Then, I checked my from shirt pocket. " Hey, where's my glasses?".

We loved the coaster called" Silver Bullitt". This was new in '05, and we rode it 3 times that day. It seats 4 people across, and your feet are just dangling in the air. It twists, loop to loop, corkscrews, but it is such a smooth ride ! Unlike the wooden coasters, which rattle and bump along.

The other daring deed we did was "Excellerator". 0 to 80 mph, then straight up probably 100 feet,makes a U turn and heads straight down, turns again and floats in more gentle and spiraling pattern until it runs out of momentum. It was at this point the steam train passed below us!

As fun as that was, we never worked up the courage to ride that one again. We would walk toward the line, and chicken out at the last minute.

The train at Knott's is cool! Walter Knott bought 2 C-19's, a Gallopping Goose, some coaches, freight cars, and "Edna"( business car) in 1952 after the RGS shut down. If you like Colorado Narrow Gauge, it's worth checking it out.

Thanks for the picture of Chloe. We went to Orange Empire in '95, and they have a Ward Kimball barn. Saw Emma Nevada, and some Carson and Colorado coaches, but did not see Chloe that day.

Back to Disneyland.

I remember that the Abominable Snowman inside the Matterhorn was an enhancement that was added later, not an original feature. They advertised on T.V.  Don't recall the year, though.

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Posted by cnw1995 on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:58 AM

Two of my kids lived and worked summers at CP a few years ago. It was quite an experience, as Penny notes. They worked many, many hours; they lived in ancient dorms that looked like steerage on the Titanic; they met some local celebrities; they made $ and connected with other workers from all over the world (CP imports those interested in hospitality).

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:59 PM

Jennie K:

was recently sold to Knotts.  But reports now say that Knott's will be auctioning the loco.  As to why, I have no clue.

Postwar Paul
I remember that the Abominable Snowman inside the Matterhorn was an enhancement that was added later, not an original feature. They advertised on T.V. Don't recall the year, though.

Harold!

Yes, he didn't arrive until 1978.  In 77 Disneyland decided it was time to upgrade the ride.

That's when the sleds went from singles to doubles thereby increasing capacity and shortening (ha ha) the lines.

They also enhanced the caves and grottoes:

Look ma!  2 tracks!

The view from the location of the Motor Boat Cruise after the removal of the Skyway:

Tinkerbell's lauching pad:

The 2012 refurbishment:

Well...I guess I now know how to shrink wrap a mountain!  Big Smile

Fantastic lighting!

Say hello to the NEW face of fear...

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:31 PM

cnw1995

Two of my kids lived and worked summers at CP a few years ago. It was quite an experience, as Penny notes. They worked many, many hours; they lived in ancient dorms that looked like steerage on the Titanic; they met some local celebrities; they made $ and connected with other workers from all over the world (CP imports those interested in hospitality).

 

In my day (boy does that make me sound old!  Big Smile) CP had the Demon Drop, The Mill Race, the Giant Wheel and A LOT more trees.  I watched a recent video of a run on the CP&LE right of way and where it used to be a ride through bucolic forest, it now passes a busy road on one side and coaster after coaster on the other.  That's progress I guess.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:13 PM

Wow! Lots of great info! I have a question though:

Is the company "Cedar Faire" in any way connected with the Cedar Park?The reason I ask is for the last 15 years the tickets at Knott's have Cedar Faire in small print.I think somewhere it said " a Cedar Faire company". I have noticed a difference: the steam train seems to be consistently running. In the '60's through the '80's, it was hit and miss. Back then, it seemed like half the time the train wasn't running for one reason or another. In these Cedar Faire days, they always seem to have one engine running, and one in the shop being refurbished.

Good news for train fans!

Here's another little crumb of info:

when Walter Knott purchased the trains from the Rio Grande Southern after they Had shut down, he also brought one of the RGS conductors to help him set up, and run the operation. They originally experimented with a figure 8 setup, but the curves were too tight. So, they settled on a giant loop. Also, for a short time I've heard they had "Mudhen" 464, but this engine was too big for the curvature. The rails came from the scrapped Telluride branch. And, they had a great  model train store. I remember buying an engineer's cap, and a patch to sew on it. There was a 1" or  1 1/2" scale live steamer displayed.

And an " early days" memory:

 in early Knott's, the streets of Ghost Town were not paved, just dirt. I remember one of the C-19 engines parked casually on a side track. My parents allowed me to climb up into the cab. I somehow came out with very greasy hands !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:35 PM

I looked it up, and Cedar Fair is a parent company with many amusement parks, including Knott's, and Cedar Point. Those coasters at Cedar Point aren't joking around! Pretty extreme stuff ! I've slowed down considerably, and I'm more of a train ride type these days! 

 

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Posted by cnw1995 on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 12:25 PM

That's right - CedarFaire was the name on my kid's paystubs. There was a fair amount of back-and-forth between CP and Knotts in the off-season (for CP).

My daughter met the guy she married during her last summer working at CP!

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:49 PM

Those Cedar Point locomotives are absolutely stunning!  I'm drooling all over the keyboard even as we speak!

Thanks for the photos and the links Becky!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:55 PM

Cedar Fair has grown since the late 80's to include Cedar Point, Cedar Point Shores, California's Great America, Canada's Wonderland, Carowinds Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom, Kings Dominion, Kings Island, Knotts Berry Farm, Knotts Soak City, Michigan's Adventure, World's of Fun Oceans of Fun and their original "other park" Valley Fair (hence the Cedar Fair name).  https://www.cedarfair.com/

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:01 PM

My "other" favorite amusement park train:

It runs around Memphis Kiddie Park which is at the other end of my street.  Coincidentally right accross the road from where the NYC Linndale roundhouse used to be!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:29 PM

I'm happy with the way Cedar Faire is running Knott's. They keep that train running all the time. In 1969, when yours truly was in 8th grade, we went on a school field trip to Knott's. This was to see the replica of Independence Hall. We had the rest of the afternoon free. I brought my camera, and was so looking forward to the steam train. No train that day. There were numerous other trips to Knott's, and it was about 50/50 that the train would be running. Since 2002, every single time I have not been disappointed! And the tickets have said " Cedar Faire" in small print. They've got my vote!

They used to paint those locos in outlandish, and colorful paint schemes. Now they have number 41 painted accurately in black, and lettered R.G.S. Number 340 is painted accurately for the Denver and Rio Grande Western, and in tri-color, no less!

They usually seem to have one running, and one being rebuilt. They alternate every year or so, it seems.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:42 PM

The first half of my "new and improved" Main Street USA is finally ready!

This would be the East side of the street.

Which of course backs up to Tomorrowland.

Which is also new and improved (with a large pile of 14 volt lamps).

And here's one of those little nooks that nobody will see:

Both Main Street and Tomorrowland have always been relatively dark.

Time's running short, so finishing West Main Street and it's Fantasyland back side will keep me busy!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:10 PM

That is looking great ! And, I just noticed your " It's a Small World" in the back. You have captured the details of the facade pretty accurately. That was always a fun ride, like a mini trip around the world. The train came through that facade also. This back side of Disneyland was one of the last open areas. It has built up now too, with Mickey's Toon Town, and a new station. "Small World" was another classic, and one of my mom's faves.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, September 22, 2017 9:38 AM

Becky, I'm serious here.  You should take photos of your work to any architectural firms that might be in your area by way of a resume' and see if they can use a great modeler.

Your work is spectacular, to say the least! 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, September 22, 2017 7:16 PM

Thanks guys!  Big Smile

Here's 2 more I shot when it got completely dark:

Small World was a lot of fun to build.  I had to accomodate 6 inch clearance without making the module too large to handle.  That meant raising the background "kinetic sculpture" (as they call it) so it would still be seen with the train passing in front.

I really love these strings of 110 volt grain of wheat lamps that you find in crafts stores.  They make lighting so easy!  Big Smile

I need better water.

Topiary the easy way: Step one, buy small plastic animals and Woodland Scenics fine turf.  Step two, dip plastic animal in glue and then in fine turf.  Step three, let dry then plant.

There's a perpetual line too.

By the way, these are some of the 1:50 scale figures out of China, Hong Kong, etc. that have been cropping up on online auctions in recent years.

This is well known of course, but here are some pics of the ride pavillion and the original kinetic sculpture "Tower of the Four Winds" at the 64 World's Fair.

When it came to Disneyland it changed sponsors from Pepsi to Bank of America.

The center part was easy enough to get photos of but the ends were a different story.

People don't often take photos of the backside of the clock tower either.  Big Smile

Nowadays the ride is sponsored by Sylvania.

I wanted the more colorful look of Small World Holiday:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, September 23, 2017 2:01 PM

if you have a Flickr account, I have pictures in "Train Pictures and Stuff" ,

and also a group I just created called "Knott's "

Like the pictures of " small world " with colored lighting.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:17 PM

Postwar Paul
if you have a Flickr account, I have pictures in "Train Pictures and Stuff" , and also a group I just created called "Knott's "

Can you post a direct link(s) to your albums?

Postwar Paul
Like the pictures of " small world " with colored lighting.

Her's the EuroDisneyland version:

Similar but not an exact replica.

The Tokyo version is almost an exact copy.

Though they have kicked up the colors just a tad in recent years...

In Hong Kong they created a slightly smaller version of the facade.

At WDW the sculpture is indoors due to the hurricane risk.

It's nice and all but it loses a lot not being an outdoor construction.

So where's Small World in Shanghai?

No Small World!  Tongue Tied  It's a crime!  Crying  No Space Mountain either!  What kind of Disney Park is this?  And if those omissions aren't enough, THERE'S NO TRAIN EITHER!!!!  Bang Head

I don't get it.  ????Huh?????

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, September 23, 2017 10:59 PM

 All those different versions of "Small World".  I am so used to the white and gold version in Anaheim, it takes a minute to register. But, , I like them all. The Tokyo version is colorful, and I like it. The Hong Kong version is tasteful. But, Shanghai, no train ? I find that very hard to accept !

I have been trying to post a picture or two, and I really don't understand why it's not working. Maybe it is Flickr, or the IPad mini, maybe I need to go to Shutterfly ? Followed the same steps as before.I am suspecting that the combination of IPad/ Flickr is an uphill battle. There may be other combinations that are easier to use.

Oh well

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:32 PM

For Flikr:

  1. Click on the photo you want to post.
  2. It should open and be the only image on the screen.
  3. Below and to the right of the photo you should see a hollow arrow curving to the right.
  4. Click on the arrow.  A box should appear that says "Share 1 photo to:"
  5. Click on where it says "BBCode".
  6. The web address of your photo should be highlighted in blue.  Right click on it (I do it with a mouse, but you'll need to do whatever you have to do on an ipad to copy something).
  7. The code sholuld look something like this:  tomorrowlandx_zps6kzitjna by Rebecca Chestney, on Flickr
  8. Then click on the insert/edit image back here and paste that gobbledegook  into the box marked "Source".
  9. And that should insert your photo into your post.  But.  You won't be able to see it until after you hit the "Submit Your Reply" button and if you go back and edit your post, it will go away for some reason.  That's why I went to Shutterfly instead after the Photobucket fiasco.

  tomorrowlandx_zps6kzitjna by Rebecca Chestney, on Flickr" alt="" />

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:33 PM

Well, that's strange.  It worked twice instead of just posting the code gobbledegook.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 24, 2017 7:09 PM

Tokyo Disneyland's Western River Railroad.

It's only a 15 minute ride rather than a transportation system like it is at the U.S. parks.  I've never tried to link a video before, but here goes:

The Paris version of the Disneyland Railroad does a grand circle tour.

Pretty spectacular station!

The locos are named W.F. Cody, C.K. Holliday, G. Washington and Eureka.

Maybe you can't ride in Shanghai, but you can in Hong Kong!

They have the Walter E. Disney, Roy O. Disney and Frank G. Wells locomotives.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:17 PM

Thank you ! I am trying to enter my pictures on an edit.

DUH!!!!

everything else was the same.

Nobody knows the trouble I've seen...

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:24 PM

Thank you for those pictures ! Every country has their own flavor! Tokyo is great, love Paris Disney train. Really cool station, has a French flair. Hong Kong has a very cute styling, I would have expected in Japan.

I wanted to share some pix from the Knott's " rolling museum", if I can get this thing to work. 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:28 PM

now Flickr has a message that there is a problem, and they are trying to fix it. I won't worry about it for today. I really like the styling of the Paris train, and stations. That's an interesting twist !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:49 PM

Try again another day. Sorry.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 10:45 PM

 Shutterfly

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:21 PM

R.G.S 41

 Burnham,Parry and Williams ( Baldwin) 1881

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:26 PM

 Tight fit!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:30 PM

Crummy

hack

cabin car

 caboose

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:35 PM

Tri color

 no less

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:41 PM

Edna

 R.G.S. Business car. Used by Rocky Mountain Rairoad Club in excursion over the R.G.S. In '49, but they had to agree to repaint it first !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:45 PM

 30 tons of happiness!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 25, 2017 6:22 PM

Ah!  Success!    Those are real beauties!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, September 25, 2017 7:35 PM

Thanks for your help ! Shutterfly works easily with the IPad.

I really love that "Eureka" at Paris Disney. If I ever get back out that way again...

You know, it kinda looks like that Eureka and Palisade #4, of Mr. Dan Markoff. Well, at least from the front. The more I look at it, the more I see !

They have borrowed elements from several different locomotives. The flat " pan" stack with the red stripe is from latter day V&T . Then, if you look at the cab, the front corners are rounded. This is an 1860's feature, as is the plaque mounted between the drive wheels. No wonder I like this engine ! It is not a model of any one particular engine, but they have borrowed the best features from several.

And you can do this in model building as well. You can build to taste, or painstakingly research, and try to recreate. Some of the museum models are mind blowing in their accuracy and detail.

Your models are built on research, and it shows. I recognize so many locations, and they "look right" to my eyes. I see the eating areas, and the Disney trash cans. Disneyland employed a lot of people with trash scoops, and a broom, they were constantly sweeping up. An army of street sweepers, it seemed like. There were also vending carts around, with popcorn, but it may have been caramel corn.

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:14 PM

The Eureka was built in 1993 by Severn Lamb while the three other Eurodisneyland locos were built for the 1992 park opening by H.P. Phillips.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_Railroad_(Paris)

Here's one NOT taken through a fisheye lens.  Laugh

W.F. Cody:

Cyrus K. Holliday:

and G. Washington:

Not quite what we're accustomed to for coaches though:

Then there's the version of Casey Junior at the park on the Marne:

The first time Michael Eisner visited a Disney Park he called it "the cleanest place on earth" after observing all the sweepers at work.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:36 PM

Sorry to bring that up about the sweepers, but it impressed me the effort they made to keep everything pristine.

Euro Disney has some great Americans !

 (4-4-0's)

Like 'me all! Looking through me books, I see the "pan" stack was a feature of engines on the early Carson and Colorado. This was a narrow gauge line built by the same guys behind the Virginia and Truckee. It connected with the V&T at Mound House, Nevada, and ran 300 miles down through the Owens Valley, just east of the Sierras. 

They were trying to tap into mining in the area, but the owners later said it was"300 miles too long, or 300 years too soon" .

Not much traffic on the line, and it was sold to Espee. This became the S.P. Narrow gauge. 

The " pan" stack was on 2or 3 of the last V&T engines running at the very end of operation in 1950 . 26, 27, and maybe 25.

 That Casey  Jr. is fantastic !  Love the " Dumbo" movie, and the scenes of that little train. I like the way it takes slack, and jolts that train into motion. When this movie was made, Ward Kimball had already acquired an 1881 Baldwin narrow gauge 2-6-0, and had it running on his property. When designing the train for "Dumbo" , Walt told Kimball " make it like your locomotive, Ward, only cartoon it up a bit " .

Thus, we Have " Casey Jr." .

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:52 PM

Postwar Paul
Sorry to bring that up about the sweepers, but it impressed me the effort they made to keep everything pristine.

What's to be sorry about?

Ward at work:

The ride comes to life.

Kinda hard to imagine it without the villages!

Don't you wish your backyard looked like this?

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:38 PM

Coming from the G gauge persuasion, the name "Grizzly Flats " is huge, and caries almost a celebrity status. This was, of course, the name of Ward Kimall's backyard railroad. Many models have been offered in G, most notably Chloe.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:42 PM

 Ward didn't mind a train, or too.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:45 PM

 He was in great company...

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:49 PM

Look at that backhead, so clean you could eat off it!

Who says steam has to be dirty?

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:50 PM

Chloe. 1907 Baldwin, had hauled sugar cane in Hawai i.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:54 PM

 In G, you can buy off the shelf Chloe, both types of rider cars, and the Grizzly Flats station.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:59 PM

We're not done here. Ward had an 1881 Baldwin narrow gauge 2-6-0.

 The Emma Nevada.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:03 PM

Emma Nevada has been offered by at least 2 different manufacturers over the years. 

 Hartland:

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:05 PM

And more recently

Bachmann/ Spectru m

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:11 PM

 Detail of Emma

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:19 PM

We all love to run trains, don't we ?

When I was young, Model Railroader magazine had ads from "Little Engines" in Lo mita, Ca. I used to dream of building a live steamer. I would buy their catalogues and dream of the day. I went to a few live steam meets, but it has always been out of reach financially. Still is !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:24 PM

 I guess I'll just have to enjoy them whenever, and wherever I can ! 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:33 PM

Firelock76

Look at that backhead, so clean you could eat off it!

Who says steam has to be dirty?

 

It's beautiful, isn't it ? I am wondering if this is Emma Nevada ?

Very few controls: throttle, water glass, "try cocks", and the Johnson bar with Walt's foot on it. The " try cocks" are the 3 valves arranged diagonally on the right side of the boiler. The early engines did not have a water glass, only try cocks. You would crack each valve to see if water or steam came out. Then, you could judge the water level in the boiler.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:30 PM

This is purported to be a photo of the backhead of the Bachmann model.

I can't speak to it's accuracy but the rectangular windows in the photo you posted look right.

Where do old ticket booths go?

Apparently they end up at Ward's house!  Laugh

Everybody knows about Ward and Walt, but they don't know about coconspirator Ollie Johnston:

Really fine modeler!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ollie_Johnston

No Carolwood Pacific if not for Ollie and Ward!

Walt and Ollie:

That's not Lilly Belle!

Walt bought the "King George the V" from the Bassett-Lowke showroom in London.  Strangely enough, another future Disney legend, Harper Goff, had tried to buy the loco the same day!  Goff later joined Disney and was one of the geniuses behind Disneyland.  He's also responsible for the look of the Nautilus and later he designed the sets for Willy Wonka.  Oh, and he was also the banjo player for the Firehouse Five + Two:

Ward takes Salvadore Dali for a ride:

Walt takes Ward for a ride on Dick Jackson's home railroad:

Ollie Johnston's depot bears a definite resemblance to the G.F. station:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:18 PM

You know, Ward Kimball must have made some pretty good money working for Disney to afford a collection like that.

And "The Firehouse Five!"  I remember seeing them on one of the "Disney's Wonderful World Of Color" TV shows back in the early 60's.  It was one of the Disneyland showcase programs and the "Firehouse Five" were playing on the "Mark Twain," complete with some New Orleans vocalists.   Makes sense, a "Dixieland/ New Orleans Jazz" concert on a a paddlewheeler.

They were GOOD too!  Looked like one hell of a party!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:28 PM

Penny Trains

This is purported to be a photo of the backhead of the Bachmann model.

I can't speak to it's accuracy but the rectangular windows in the photo you posted look right.

Everybody knows about Ward and Walt, but they don't know about coconspirator Ollie Johnston:

Really fine modeler!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ollie_Johnston

No Carolwood Pacific if not for Ollie and Ward!

Walt and Ollie:

That's not Lilly Belle!

Walt bought the "King George the V" from the Bassett-Lowke showroom in London.  Strangely enough, another future Disney legend, Harper Goff, had tried to buy the loco the same day!  Goff later joined Disney and was one of the geniuses behind Disneyland.  He's also responsible for the look of the Nautilus and later he designed the sets for Willy Wonka.  Oh, and he was also the banjo player for the Firehouse Five + Two:

Ward takes Salvadore Dali for a ride:

Walt takes Ward for a ride on Dick Jackson's home railroad:

Ollie Johnston's depot bears a definite resemblance to the G.F. station:

 

 

Well, the Bachman model has a different back head than the picture of Walt and Ward. Not sure which engine this is. Would that be a Great Western "King" class Walt is purchasing?  I love those Great Western engines! Love the "Castle" class.

One thing many Yanks don't realize, or have trouble wrapping their heads around:

Many of those British engines had 3 or 4 cylinders!  2 on the outside, and 2 between the frames ! Toss that one around in your mind for a few minutes! Different engineering, different mindset.

I was aware of Ollie Jonson from the Special Features of some of these classic animated movies. They speak of the "9 old men" at Disney.

The story of Disney animation is a fascinating one.

Their fortunes and success really took off after the huge success of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves". I think Walt " bet the farm" on this movie.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, September 29, 2017 9:03 AM

Multi-cylinder steam locomotives made a certain amount of sense in the European view, it wasn't just the Brits who had them, but also the Germans and the French as well.  A multi-cylinder design lessened the weight of moving machinery and made the locomotive easier on the track, there was less pounding and dynamic augment.

The disadvantage though, and remember nothing comes free, was increased maintanence costs, those muti-cylinder locomotives were harder and more time-consuming to work on.  However, since labor costs were cheaper in Europe and most railroads on the continent were government-run they didn't have the profit drive that American railroads had.  Certainly they wanted to make  money, but it wasn't quite the concern that American 'roads had. 

ALCO pushed some three-cylinder designs here in the US in the post World War One era, but the only ones that really caught on were the Union Pacific's 9000 Class 4-12-2's.  I'm sure the UP's shopmen groaned a bit when one of them showed up for servicing.  Just about all American 'roads wanted nothing to do with multi-cylinder locomotives, the philosophy being "Get 'em in, get 'em serviced, get 'em out!"  A locomotive in the shop wasn't out making money.

And the British locomotives with inside cylinders?  Those were used in areas with tight clearances, very common on British lines, putting the cylinders inside the frame got them out of the way of possible damage.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:51 PM

Firelock76
the "Firehouse Five" were playing on the "Mark Twain," complete with some New Orleans vocalists.

Before there was a New Orleans Square, there was New Orleans Street and big name jazz acts routinely gave floating concerts from the deck of the Mark Twain.

Dixieland at Disneyland 1963:

Kid Ory and the Young Men from New Orleans:

The Albert McNeil Choir

Al Hirt

Firehouse Five Plus 2

River Bank Seating and Bleacher Stands

Firehouse on a different day:

There was also a bandstand at the water's edge where the Disneyland Strwhatters played.

Here's something where if you blinked you missed it:

Yes, that's a McConestoga wagon!

49 served.

You could also get your fry fix at the Harbour Galley.

No fish to go with your er, umm, "chips" though.

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, September 29, 2017 7:34 PM

All those concerts on the Mark Twain, I had no idea.

As I said, looked like one hell of a party!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, September 29, 2017 8:14 PM

Firelock76

All those concerts on the Mark Twain, I had no idea.

As I said, looked like one hell of a party!

 

Yes, and " Satchmo" himself.

here's a footnote:

the engine Walt is buying, 6000 King George V, was built at Swindon works in '27. It is a Great Western "King" class. A 4 cylinder engine, most powerful 4-6-0 in Britain. Thirty built between 1927 and 1930. King George V was displayed in the U.S. As an example of British engineering, and workmanship.

Got that out of my system, let's go back to Disneyland, shall we?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 30, 2017 7:42 PM

Postwar Paul
go back to Disneyland

Okey dokey.  Let's look at yesterday''s vision of the future.

The World Clock

The little ball on the side told you the minutes past the hour listed around the top.

The sun and moon told you which side was in daylight.

It was the original entrance to Tomorrowland.

It was also supposed to let you figure out the exact time anywhere on earth to the minute.  Except you had to do extra math for Newfoundland which is an hour and a half ahead of Eastern Standard Time.  Big Smile

The Dutch Boy Color Gallery 1956-1960

Futuristic, but beyond teaching kids about primary colors it likely didn't help tell anything about the future (other than that corporate advertising would get crazy by the end of the 20th century).

But they did have coloring books.

Monsanto Hall of Chemistry 1955-1966

House of the Future 1957-1967

Let there be plastics!

This looks pretty close to a future that did happen:

But the mini portable on the cabinet there was your best bet for getting a picture in those days!

Kaiser Aluminum Hall of Fame 1955-1960

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea 1955-1966

Just as he had done with Snow White (when he told Roy to sell his car to get financing) Walt bet the farm on 20k.  It nearly bankrupted the studio and ate up a lot of the funds that were allocated for building Disneyland.  But it was a blockbuster of course, and Disney ended up with a lot more money for Disneyland.  Naturally, the sets went on public display.

The Golden Arrow:

This one I wish I could have seen!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:51 PM

Fantastic! Thank you, again! In the special features for " Snow White" they spoke of the hand to mouth existence of the Disney studios before "Snow White". They told about the long hours of Walt, and his animation team, and Walt actually crashing and sleeping in his office. How that all changed after the film came out ! A feature length animated film, in color! And, in 1937 !

Then, they were able to move into the new studio in Burbank.

 

Also, in the early days, they referred to it as "The Disney Brothers" studio. And there was a picture in those special features that showed a 3 rail setup in the studio's lobby.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 1, 2017 9:36 AM

And, they say that Walt found it amusing that after the huge success of "Snow White", all the banks were extremely eager to loan him money!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 1, 2017 12:31 PM

One more thing from the special features:

Walt was a " story" man. He would gather his animators together, and proceed to act out the scenes. He clearly had a vision of exactly what he wanted.

For the "Jungle Book", he advised his team Not to read the book. " Leave the story to me". His imagination is what we see in the movies made during his lifetime.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 1, 2017 1:00 PM

Not unusual for filmmakers to revise, alter and adapt novels they're going to make into movies.  Sometimes the novel as it is and taken verbatim is extremely difficult to make a film from.

Mel Brooks gave a pretty good opinion of the process concerning the novel "Frankenstein" and the 1931 movie of the same name, and he was serious and not joking.  If I remember correctly he said...

"Frankenstein" the novel, and "Frankenstein" the movie are both works of genius!  First, the novel.  Who would believe a 19 year-old girl could come up with something like that?   However, "Frankenstein" the novel is impossible to make a good movie out of, so the adaptation they did in 1931 is also a work of genius! 

Walt wasn't the first, and he sure won't be the last.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 1, 2017 6:58 PM

Walt was a brilliant, and very successful film maker.

I am feeling the need to take another look at "20 Thousand Leagues " 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 1, 2017 7:16 PM

"20,000 Leagues" is an absolute masterpiece.

Turner Classic Movies ran it one night last year, needless to say I watched it, and I'll tell you, I'd forgotten how good it really was.  Not just a kid's film, it's got a lot more depth to it (no pun intended) than people realize.

I remember a movie critics backhanded compliment from the 70's...

"So well done it's hard to believe it's Disney."

Well.  WE believe it, don't we?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 1, 2017 7:22 PM

Postwar Paul
"The Disney Brothers" studio. And there was a picture in those special features that showed a 3 rail setup in the studio's lobby.

I've heard of that layout from several sources but I've never seen a photo.  Sad

So where do things go after they leave a Magic Kingdom?  Well, we've seen the grave of the Nautilii and the ticket kiosk at Ward Kimball's house, so here are some more!

The Marceline Autopia.

When they closed the Midget Autopia (also known as the Fantasyland or Junior Autopia) in 1966, Walt donated it to Marceline Missouri.

It ran there until the cars were just too worn out (1977).

Track remnatnts remain to create an unusual walking path through the park.

One of the cars is on display at the Walt Disney Hometown Museum.

Which of course is located in the Santa Fe depot.

Wanna see a Moonliner?  Well, there are 3!

One is at Disneyland (known as "Moonliner III") but it's a lot smaller than the original:

The other two are in Kansas City.

One is at the Airline History Museum.

This version is known as "Moonliner II" and resided on the roof at TWA from 1955 to 1961.  When TWA ended it's sponsorship of the ride (Douglas became the sponsor from 1961 to 1966) it was sold to John May for display at his RV manufacturing plant: SpaceCraft (get it? Smile, Wink & Grin).  It sat there and was in sad shape 25 years later.

Then Dan Viets bought it and restored it to the condition you see it in at the Airline History Museum.  It was on display for awhile in Marceline first though.

The third Moonliner was built in 2006.  It was fabricated out of aluminum and weighs 2,200 pounds.  Why was it built?  "Moonliner IV" as it's known to Disney fans, was built as a replacement for "Moonliner II" when the TWA world headquarters building was restored.

It didn't make a whole lot of sense after a big budget restoration of the 50 year old M2 to put the steel model back up on the roof.  So the lightweight replacement was constructed.

And Kansas City has it's Moonliner back.

The building is now on the register of historic places and is the offices for Kansas City-based Barkley Evergreen & Partners, the largest employee-owned advertising agency in the United States.  And they have a shiny new logo.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 1, 2017 8:01 PM

Firelock76
"20,000 Leagues" is an absolute masterpiece.

You'll get no arguments from me, it's my favorite movie!  Big Smile

Ever hear of the "Sunset Squid Fight"??????  Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l22tsktu8D8

Peter Ellenshaw created spectacular storyboards for the film that had the fight with the giant squid taking place at dusk under a blood red sky.  Unfortunately, the backdrop people created a very "watercolor" version and it looked awful.

The original squid was also a mechanical nightmare.  Tongue Tied

There were cables everywhere and it started falling apart when it got wet.

It was decided to do the sequence in a raging thunderstorm.

The squid mark 2 used hydraulics and looked considerably more natural.

It's amazing how much of this film was shot indoors.

And it was an "indoors" that was built especially for this film.  Hence the danger to the Disneyland budget.

And here's to the designer of the coolest submarine in movie history, Harper Goff:

By the way, one of the New Guinea cannibals had "EAT AT JOE'S" painted on his forehead and he was followed by this guy:

...who had "I ATE JOE" painted on his head.  Smile, Wink & Grin

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 1, 2017 8:19 PM

Great shots and research Becky!  The story I read about the giant squid fight was when they originally shot it with a clear sky and a red background the squid just didn't look real.  Walt came up with the idea of the raging thunderstorm.  With the rain slashing down in buckets and the lightning flashing the squid looked MORE than real, it was downright terrifying!  Best looking movie giant squid ever, much better than the one in the 1960 film "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea,"  which was a pretty good film in it's own right.

Here's a story for everyone.  A man I worked with in the 80's was a World War Two navy veteran, served on the carrier USS Lexington.  One day while they were steaming a guy yelled "Holy smoke!  Lookit what's going on off the port side!"

Everyone ran across the flight deck, and lo and behold there was a sperm whale fighting with a giant squid!  Both rolling and flailing on the surface, eventually the whale won, and ate the squid!

Guess what?  Next time they were at anchor and had a swim call nobody went in the water!

As Joe said, "The moral of the story is, you don't know what's down there!"

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 1, 2017 9:16 PM

I just couldn't resist researching that!  Laugh

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 1, 2017 9:56 PM

It has been so long since I've seen this film, I only remember the Nautilus, and the cool look of the film. I remember I liked it, but that's about it.

Peter Lorre ? Wow, need to go back and check it out again ! 

Walt's animated films used many familiar voices, he used a lot of the same people over again. Check out the stork in Dumbo. Sounds like Winnie the Pooh, doesn't it ?

Sterling Holloway. 

Love the train scenes in Dumbo ! 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, October 2, 2017 7:08 PM

Penny Trains

I just couldn't resist researching that!  Laugh

 

Yep, nine-out-of-ten sperm whales prefer giant squid as a snack than anything else in the ocean!

Just ask 'em, they'll tell you!

"Thar she blows!"  "BUUUUUURRRRRRP!!!!"

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:26 PM

That "thing" in the photo with the whale is obviously made of rubber, but this one aint!  Tongue Tied

The Humboldt Squid: diablo rojo.  The stuff that nightmares are made of!  Tongue Tied

Though most of them certainly don't get big enough to drag down a submarine!

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, October 3, 2017 7:39 PM

Maybe we'll have more fun with ol' squidy as Halloween gets closer.  But for now, here are some pics of the Santa Fe and Disneyland RR engine house.

Not so grand as Walt originally planned:

This sketch was created by Herb Ryman while he and Walt spent a weekend furiously mapping it all out before Walt had to meet with investors on Monday.  This is the sketch that sold a lot of bankers and sponsors on the idea.  Over on the left was Walt's ideas for a roundhouse where the Jungle Cruise would end up.  Whereas the Jungle Cruise is where Space Mountain ended up 25 years later.  That plan was the evolution of this one:

The original idea (well, not THE original idea) was to build the park on the plot of land accross the street from the Burbank studio.

Fortunately the plan outgrew the parcel and they didn't have to tear down the park when the freeway at the bottom of the photo came through!  Wink

The engine facilty was enlarged in 1959 to accomnodate the "second level" of the Disneyland train layout.

The Ward Kimball (or Maud as I knew her) leaves the shop.

I thank the photographer with the zoom lens that got these pics!

Fuel oil delivery?

Switching coasts, some pics of the Walt Disney World Railroad.

Ummmm.....Tongue Tied

Last spike ceremony:

Bought, but not restored:

Walt Disney World's "other" railroad: The Fort Wilderness Line.

Yes, those really are trolley cars behind the tender!

Fort Wilderness RR station:

I'd rather have the train!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:22 PM

Those Segways give me the willies, they remind me of the old-fashioned push lawn mowers.

Ever have to use a push mower?  Ugh!  Thank God for Briggs and Stratton!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:58 PM

Oh yes!  Stick out tongue  We had electric mowers too.  What we should have had was stock in extension cord manufacturers!  Tongue Tied

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:15 PM

Those are some fantastic pictures of the S.F&D.R.R. ! I am glad they did not build Disneyland in Burbank, don't know where they would have put it. That whole area is chock full of fun stuff ! Across the freeway from Disney studios is Traveltown, with many great old steamers on display. Next to that is the Los Angeles Live Steamers ( they have a Disney loop , by the way. ). Down from there is the L.A. zoo. I understand there was a time a narrow gauge train ran from Traveltown to the Zoo. From what I understand( and this was before my time), it was the train from the Oahu Railway, number 85, an outside frame 4-6-0, and the coach and combine, which are still displayed at Traveltown. The 85 has gone back to Hawaii, the last I heard it went to the Lahaina, Kaanapali, and Pacific, in Maui, to be rebuilt. I have pictures of 85, and the Hawaiian tank engine at Traveltown, before they went back to Hawaii. Unfortunately, the termites have gotten to the coaches, and most of the wooden cars on display.

Burbank also has the Equestrian center, and many places where you can rent a horse for an hour or two. My daughter and I used to rent a horse from one of the stables, and ride up into the hills of Griffith Park on the trails above Traveltown.  One time my horse "Slick", an old ,broken down and worn out looking horse, got it in his mind to run!  I pulled back on the reins, but it did no good. Fortunately, we had a horse handler with us who rode up and tamed the beast ! 

I did not know WDW had another railroad. My visit to WDW was very short, we didn't see much. We had gone cross country on Amtrak, staying in Youth Hostels, headed to NYC to catch a plane to London, and to explore Europe. This was the worry free days of '76 and '77.  But got all over Europe on a Eurail Pass ! And Britain on a Britrail Pass.

It may have changed a little !

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 4:29 PM

Penny Trains

Oh yes!  Stick out tongue  We had electric mowers too.  What we should have had was stock in extension cord manufacturers!  Tongue Tied

 

I've been using an electric mower over 15 years now, and never ran over the extension cord.

I cut it in half with the electric edge trimmers.  Popped a circuit breaker in the house, too.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:28 PM

Firelock76
I've been using an electric mower over 15 years now, and never ran over the extension cord. I cut it in half with the electric edge trimmers. Popped a circuit breaker in the house, too.

Doh!  Oops - Sign

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 7:15 PM

Yes!  The LA Live Steamers have Walt Disney's barn:

Some of Ward's toys at the barn:

Walt's locos are on display inside:

Including the King George VI:

If I ever get to the left coast it's very high on my list of sights to see!  Big Smile

Travel Town and Rail Giants too!

L.K.&P. #5:

No. 5: a 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge outside frame 0-6-2 saddle tank locomotive. This engine is not in operating condition, but it is the only steam engine owned by the LKPRR with historical ties to Hawaii. It once ran on the Oahu Railway and Land Company until it was donated in 1954 to the Travel Town Museum in Los Angeles.[7] Through an equipment trade with Travel Town, the LKPRR brought No. 5 back to Hawaii, where it remains today awaiting restoration.

I found the above on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahaina,_Kaanapali_and_Pacific_Railroad

FWRR from Extinct Disney:

"Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's."

 

Fort Wilderness Railroad

Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides.

 

Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's.

 

After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history.

Fort Wilderness Railroad

Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides.

 

Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's.

 

After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:10 PM

Speaking of things you CAN'T do at WDW anymore, it was once possible to have the best seat in the house on the Highway in the Sky.

They even issued these to kids:

Sadly, that all came to an end in 2009: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/05/u.s.disney.monorail/

Let's look at the WDW system in a happier light.

Inside the barn:

The operator's control panel.  The seats in the background are where you were once allowed to ride.

As it is at Disneyland, the Monorail barn is adjacent to the WDWRR engine house.

Construction of the Glideway:

This is the "Tug" or "tow vehicle" that gets deployed if your train breaks down:

And yes, old Monorails do get put out to pasture:

This is the Tokyo Monorail:

Inside the barn at Disneyland:

This is a Mark I Monorail built by Disney engineers based on designs by Alweg in 1959.  WDW opened with the Mark IV in 1971 with prerecorded narration by Jack Wagner, including the lines "Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor manténganse alejado de las puertas.", which you can get on a T-Shirt!  WDW trains have been built by Martin-Marietta and Bombardier Transportation.

Disneyland had the Mark V which are identifiable by the ridge along the roof.

They also had a....well......odd life....Tongue Tied

 +

That's not to say their replacements don't have odd characteristics from time to time:

Disneyland now has the Mark VII's built by Dynamic Structures.

They do a decent job of looking retro:

Mark I

Mark VII

The toy monorail has glideway of a different shape than the real trains.

Of course the dream of Disney toy collectors is to get their hands on one of these:

Schuco made both 3 and 4 car versions:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:30 PM

Oh wow, that Union Pacific 9000, the class leader of those three-cylinder 4-12-2's I mentioned in an earlier post.

That's one the real UP fans would love to see brought back to life, but it's not likely.  Cool as it is it doesn't have the cachet' that a Big Boy does. 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 10:55 PM

Firelock76

Oh wow, that Union Pacific 9000, the class leader of those three-cylinder 4-12-2's I mentioned in an earlier post.

That's one the real UP fans would love to see brought back to life, but it's not likely.  Cool as it is it doesn't have the cachet' that a Big Boy does. 

 

That 9000 is a humongous engine. They have it parked now at the L.A. Fairgrounds in Pomona, along with an Espee 3 cylinder 4-10-2, and a Santa Fe Hudson. They just pulled U.P. 4014 out to go back to Cheyenne.  

Oh, and they have train shows at this facility.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 10:57 PM

Penny Trains

Yes!  The LA Live Steamers have Walt Disney's barn:

Some of Ward's toys at the barn:

Walt's locos are on display inside:

Including the King George VI:

If I ever get to the left coast it's very high on my list of sights to see!  Big Smile

Travel Town and Rail Giants too!

L.K.&P. #5:

No. 5: a 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge outside frame 0-6-2 saddle tank locomotive. This engine is not in operating condition, but it is the only steam engine owned by the LKPRR with historical ties to Hawaii. It once ran on the Oahu Railway and Land Company until it was donated in 1954 to the Travel Town Museum in Los Angeles.[7] Through an equipment trade with Travel Town, the LKPRR brought No. 5 back to Hawaii, where it remains today awaiting restoration.

I found the above on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahaina,_Kaanapali_and_Pacific_Railroad

FWRR from Extinct Disney:

"Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's."

 

Fort Wilderness Railroad

Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides.

 

Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's.

 

After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history.

Fort Wilderness Railroad

Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides.

 

Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's.

 

After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history.

 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:01 PM
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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:04 PM

 This is 85

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:10 PM

There are great shots of this engine running on the Oahu Railway and Land, in Gale Treiber's book "Hawaiian Railway Album, WWII Photographs "

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:15 PM

 Traveltown days...

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:20 PM

This is from our trip to Maui in '92.

 the L.K.& P.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:26 PM

 They had 2 Porter engines, 2-4-0 wheel arrangement. Look similar to Cedar Park, somewhat ?

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:39 PM

Wow, those Monorails ! To the casual observer ( me) I knew they had been updated over the years, but I could not tell you which was which. Thank You for taking the time to explain !

I also would occasionally ride the " other " monorail. The one up in Seattle that runs to the Space Needle.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:16 PM

Postwar Paul

This is from our trip to Maui in '92.

 the L.K.& P.

 

What a fascinating tender!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, October 5, 2017 7:02 PM

The problem with the monorails is that most of the modifications over the years didn't change the outside appearance.

Mark 1 1959-1961:

Mark II 1961-1969:

Nearly identical except these are 4 car trains.  As built, the Monorail was an 8/10 mile ride around Tomorrowland.  But when they extended the route to stop at the Disneyland Hotel, they needed greater capacity trains since now hotel guests could ride into the park and bypass the ticket kisosks entirely.

Mark III 1969-1987:

Can you guess what's different?  Wink  That's right, another increase in ridership meant adding another car!

Mark IV 1971-1989:

The WDW Monorails originally had bench seats and guests were encouraged to "slide over" till they were practically popping out the windows!

Mark V 1986-2008:

The white cars come to Anaheim.  The Mark V's have that "ridge" on top, but I have no idea why.

It should also be noted that while Disneyland guests have always been able to open the windows, WDW guests cannot.

Mark VI 1989-today:

Achieving greater capacity by eliminating comfort.  Stick out tongue

Mark VII 2008-today

Some of the bench seats now face perpendicular to the motion of the car.

Why?

Remember when people used to leave these things at home and rent the much smaller, simpler and more "friendly to other guests" ones available at the parks?  SoapBox

If I had a time machine I'd spend a week or two at the Century 21 Exposition.

They really did it right.  The fair paid for a lot of cultural and municipal buildings and turned Seattle from a "frontier town" (as it was described in a documentary I saw) into a full fledged city on the map.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:58 PM

Penny Trains

 This would be a "whaleback" tender, as popularized by the N-C-O. ( the Nevada-California-Oregon). An oil fired locomotive, obviously. The one take away I have from the L.K.& P. In Maui is need to conserve resources on the island, and reduce waste. 

L.K.& P. Engines are oil fired, with waste oil from automotive oil changes.

 
Postwar Paul

This is from our trip to Maui in '92.

 the L.K.& P.

 

 

 

What a fascinating tender!

 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, October 5, 2017 10:23 PM

I am sitting here in Monorail Heaven! Thank You ! I think I am a Mark 111 kind of guy, because that's what I remember. But the Mark 7 is great, really need to check it out.

On Seattle's monorail: been there many times. They had the 1962 World's fair in Seattle, and built the Space Needle, the complex below, and the Monorail. If you go up in the Space Needle, it rotates very slowly, so you can enjoy views of downtown, and Puget Sound. The funny thing about the Monorail, is that you go from the excitement of the Space Needle and environs, to a somewhat non descript part of downtown. You get off the Monorail, take one look around, and wonder " when's the next train ?".

But, Seattle is a great city. I spent many vacations there, and at one point seriously considered making the move.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, October 6, 2017 11:31 PM

 Here's an N-C-O engine with a whaleback. This railroad didn't last too long, many engines passed to the S.P. Narrow gauge.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, October 6, 2017 11:41 PM

Which most people asso crate with this tender style.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 7, 2017 11:19 AM

Postwar Paul
 
Penny Trains

 This would be a "whaleback" tender, as popularized by the N-C-O. ( the Nevada-California-Oregon). An oil fired locomotive, obviously. The one take away I have from the L.K.& P. In Maui is need to conserve resources on the island, and reduce waste. 

L.K.& P. Engines are oil fired, with waste oil from automotive oil changes.

 
Postwar Paul

This is from our trip to Maui in '92.

 the L.K.& P.

 

 

 

What a fascinating tender!

 

 

 

 

Very smart, and they're not the first ones to do this.  The now-defunct Morris County Central steam tourist railroad in New Jersey did the same thing starting in the mid-Sixties.  The road's organizer, Earl Gil, had a tanker truck he drove around to gas stations and auto repair shops collecting waste oil which those establishments were only too happy to get rid of easily.  Earl got all the fuel he needed for the locomotives, and free as well!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 7, 2017 12:48 PM

It's amazing what steamers can burn. Wood, coal, oil ( which is usually " bunker C"), which is so thick, they have to heat it to make it flow. Some kid train rides use gas, like propane. There was a train ride at Pea Soup Anderson's in Buellton, California. For a very short time, they had a small zoo, with a standard Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 pulling the train. I watched the man fire her with charcoal briquettes ( a la BBQ ).

Some sugar cane operations burned the unusable leaves, and debris from the harvesting process. I've heard of an operation in the Philippines that does this.

If you google "Oahu Railway 85", they have an update on this engine. It has not been going smoothly, and now it is in Oahu at the Ewa Plantation Museum. They are trying to get it running.  So much rail history in Hawaii, but most gone without a trace.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 7, 2017 4:45 PM

I suspect the main problem with 85's restoration is the same one most restorers have.  Money.  It takes buckets of it to get a long-neglected steamer running again.

Linn Moedinger of the Strasburg Railroad who's probably forgotten more about steam restoration than anyone else will ever know once said "It's always going to cost more than you think it will.  I've been doing this all my life and have never been right on an estimate yet." 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 7, 2017 6:41 PM

Postwar Paul
It's amazing what steamers can burn.

Add bamboo to the list for locomotives running in Thailand:

This page: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/country.cfm?which=thailand gives good info and pics of the 77 remaining steam locos in the country.  261 is probably my favorite Thai loco.  All were meter gauge and most were much smaller than a pacific.

Here's a Henschel v& Son (Kassel) Garrat:

This one was a logging loco (teak would be a good guess):

You really can find locos in the woods...er, jungle...in Thailand!

I like this one a lot too:

I don't know much about excursions over there, but I do know they run this train once a year:

Note the tender to tender configuration of the double header.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 7, 2017 6:48 PM

A small tribute in the form of a Mark triple niner:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 7, 2017 7:10 PM

My radar is detecting Henschel , Orenstein and Koppel, North British Locomotive, and Beyer Peacock. If I may hazard a guess...

They are beauties !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 7, 2017 7:11 PM

Back to the Monorails, a lot of myths and legends have sprung up about them over the years.  Here are a few from

 Werner Weiss at Yesterland.com:

  1. Legend: “The reason the Walt Disney World Monorail system has not been expanded is that it would cost a million dollars per mile.”
     
    Status: False

    The figure of a million dollars per mile keeps coming up in Internet discussions about expanding the Walt Disney World Monorail system. Someone will post that it would certainly be nice if Walt Disney World would replace the stinky diesel bus fleet with sleek “highway in the sky” Monorail lines. Then, someone will reply that they heard that the cost would be a hefty million dollars per mile, and that’s just prohibitive.  Actually, if The Walt Disney Company could add ten miles to the Monorail system for just $10 million, it would undoubtedly jump at the opportunity. The truth is that the cost would be much, much higher.

  2. Legend: “The black areas on the façades of the Swan and Dolphin can be removed to accommodate future Monorail beams.”
     
    Status: False 
  3. Legend: “There is a Monorail right-of-way through Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort.”  (Time share community)
     
    Status: True

    It’s in writing from Disney!

Why does this easment exist?  (This is my favorite part.  Big Smile)  Because the ten year plan for Walt Dinsey World included this:

Like Walt's plans for EPCOT, Disney Co. executives realized early on if you had residents living on the property and/or business tennants renting office space there, you would have to give them voting rights concerning the usage and development of the 27,000 acre WDW property.  Now, while some rides and attractions may appear as such, can you imagine what Walt Disney World would look like if it actually was designed and run "by a commitee"????  Tongue Tied

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 7, 2017 7:12 PM

Penny Trains

A small tribute in the form of a Mark triple niner:

 Wow ! That's tight !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 7, 2017 7:58 PM

I was just re-reading your post. So the Garrett is a Henschel ? That's very interesting. I know that some of the garretts in Africa are not Beyer Peacock, which would be what you would normally expect.

Fascinating !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:00 PM

Curiosity is setting in:

Do you know anything about "Alweg" ?

were they the manufacturers, or the designers? I know at Disneyland they always referred to their "Alweg Monorail". Same name mentioned in Seattle.

Monorails could have been the answer. Here in L.A., they are building up the Metro system- mostly on the right of way of the Pacific Electric they worked so hard to tear out !

Go figure...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 8, 2017 6:41 PM

Postwar Paul
Do you know anything about "Alweg" ?

Not a whole lot.  Here's what Wikipedia has to say: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alweg

"Alweg was a transportation company known for pioneering straddle-beam monorails.[citation needed]

Alweg was founded by Swedish industrial magnate Dr. Axel Lennart Wenner-Gren in January 1953 as Alweg-Forschung, GmbH (Alweg Research Corporation), based in Fühlingen, a suburb of Cologne, Germany. The company was an outgrowth of the Verkehrsbahn-Studiengesellschaft (Transit Railway Study Group), which had already presented its first monorail designs and prototypes in the previous year. The Alweg name is an acronym of Dr. Wenner-Gren's name (Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren).

Alweg is best remembered for their role in building the original Disneyland Monorail System of Disneyland, which opened in 1959, and the Seattle Center Monorail, which opened for the 1962 Century 21 Exposition.[1] Both systems remain operational, with the Seattle Center Monorail still using the original Alweg trains which have traveled over one million miles. A third system, built in Turin for the Italia 61 exposition remained unused a few months after the exposition closed and was destroyed by a fire in the late 1970s, most probably set by vandals. The remnants of the system were scrapped in 1981, with the north station now being repurposed as an office building."

Turin Monorail

"In 1963, Alweg put forward a proposal to the city of Los Angeles for a monorail system that would be designed, built, operated and maintained by Alweg. Alweg promised to take all financial risk for the construction with the cost of the system to be recovered through fares collected. The City Council rejected the proposal in favor of not building a transit system at all. This move was greatly resented by famed author Ray Bradbury who supported the monorail project and resented the later move to build a subway in Los Angeles.[2]

Alweg's technology was licensed in 1960 by Hitachi Monorail, which continues to construct monorails based on Alweg technology around the world. What was for decades the world's busiest monorail line, the Tokyo Monorail, was completed in 1964 by what was then the Hitachi-Alweg division of Hitachi, and today's busiest monorail system, Chongqing Rail Transit, is also based on Alweg and Hitachi technology.

After Alweg ran into financial difficulties, Alweg's German operations were taken over by Krupp.[citation needed] Alweg's Seattle subsidiary Wegematic ceased operations in 1964, but some of the technology used in the Disneyland monorail was eventually acquired by the Canadian company Bombardier.[citation needed]

In the 1960s there was a plan to build an ALWEG monorail in the High Tatras in Slovakia.[citation needed]"

Kuala Lumpur Monorail

And this is from the Monorail Society:  http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/TPAlweg2.html

"

There once was a Swedish industrialist who had a lot of money in postwar Germany. Because of laws at that time, he was only allowed to spend the money within the German borders. He chose to invest ot in a new advanced straddle-type monorail, and he named the company based on his own...Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren. The first test track made its debut in 1952 and was geared more towards demonstrating a high-speed intercity rail system. With further study, it was found that the simple elegant design would be ideal for modern urban transit. In July of 1957 the first full-sized ALWEG monorail began testing at the Fühlingen test track. It caught the eye of a visiting tourist in 1958, who wanted a monorail for his theme park. Walt Disney made agreements with ALWEG to build a 5/8 scale monorail which opened in 1959 in Anaheim, California at his then new park Disneyland. The Disneyland-ALWEG monorail captured the world's imagination and attention more than any other monorail had to date.

As a result of that attention, more ALWEG demonstration lines were built. One lasted less than a year at a 1961 auto exposition in Turin, Italy. Another was built for the Century 21 world's fair in Seattle, Washington. That system, along with the one in Disneyland, caught the attention of the Japanese. They in turn purchased rights from ALWEG to build monorails in Japan. Nowhere else on earth can one find more ALWEG-based monorail systems in operation today. However, only one ALWEG Company-built monorail remains in existence, the Seattle Monorail. ALWEG went out of business in the 1960's, but their legacy lives on in Bombardier and Hitachi transit monorails. The Seattle ALWEG monorail has been in operation since 1962. This technology is not new, but tried-and-true. As you will see, it was way ahead of its time."

Mr ALWEG:

Fuhlingen Test Track:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 8, 2017 7:58 PM

That's an interesting insight into what could have been. The Monorail was proposed to the City of Los Angeles, but rejected.

Here's another somewhat similar piece of history, but with a different outcome:

 in 1947, the then mayor of San Francisco wanted to replace the remaining cable car lines with busses. The people of S.F. Came together in support of the cable cars, and they still run to this day. Although the "Powell and Hyde" line is a combination of two previously separate lines, but who's to quibble? That ride up or down Hyde street is breathtaking, in either direction!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, October 13, 2017 7:18 PM

About 2 weeks ago I got a new PC nad the last couple of days I've been ripping my collection (31 cdrw and dvdrw's) of music from the Disney parks to Windows Media Player.  My previous PC didn't have a functional sound card so it's been quite awhile since I've had any kind of a back-up to these files other than what I had burned years ago.  Most of this stuff was easy to find when the net was "young" and the "Big D" hadn't caught up to the sites that had this stuff posted as mp3's yet.  Many of them are copies of real loop, ride and song tapesm, so you can imagine why Disney cracked down on this stuff being out there in an "unauthorized" form on the net.

Anyways, one that I've just been listening to is a track from the Space Mountain ride loop and it contains an intro by Disney legend Jack Wagner.  Purple prose at it's best:

"Towering above Tomorrowland, are the futuristic peaks of Space Mountain.  Inside, Disneyland astronauts experience the thrill of a twisting, speeding, journey past the stars and unexplored galaxies.  Bursting through a cosmic vapor curtain into the deep, dark void of superspace, where time is non-existent and distances are spanned at infinite speeds."

If that doesn't make you want to ride Space Mountain I don't know what will! Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 14, 2017 9:02 AM

That's cool that you have those soundtracks. Hopefully you have the one from the Tiki Room to enjoy !

I just realized that we haven't talked about the " Jungle Boat Cruise". That's a classic from the very beginning.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 14, 2017 7:36 PM

Postwar Paul
Hopefully you have the one from the Tiki Room

Well, I have a few...

  1. Tiki Room Barker Bird
  2. Tiki Room Pre-show
  3. Tropical Serenade
  4. Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room
  5. Tropical Serenade Under New Management
  6. Tiki Drums
  7. Tiki Luau
  8. Tiki Macarena

The barker bird is the best one in my opinion.  Remember him?

"This is where you can sit on your tail feathers, and rest the rest of you.  Oh!  Excuse me, sir!  Quickly!  Quickly!  Get your passports...I mean 'tickets' to Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room"  He ended up getting removed because he caused traffic jams!

Ah!  The Jungle Cruise!

Many of the rides and attractions of Disneyland grew out of Walt's desire to present guests with "true life adventures".  In fact, the working title of this section of the park was "True-Life Adventureland" until fairly late in the design process.

I know it isn't, but doesn't this look like Ronald Reagan sticking his head in a gator's mouth?  Laugh

How to animate a hippo:

Early on, skippers were issued blanks to fire at the hippos.  Nowadays they get compressed air and bad jokes.

The boats (launches) were the work of Harper Goff and were VERY much based on the African Queen:

...Harper Goff loved the film.

This photo tells a lot of stories.

Notice how easy it is to see the transition point from Adventureland to Main Street USA and how non-jungle-like the landscape was in the early days.  It would be many years before the seedlings grew!

It was always a nice day for a jungle cruise, but if you look in the back ground of this pic of Walt and daughter Diane visiting with young guests, you can see it was originally called the "Jungle River Boat Ride".  b50 cents for adults and 35 cents for kids:

Happiness is a "boating" Steve Allen?????

The first thing you'd see was the sunken city.

Buddha got replaced by something a bit more Disney:

The butterflies are fake...

..but what about the ducks?

Early gators.  Or are they crocs?

In 1962 the elephants came along and scared some of the rubbery beasts away.

The modern crocs are much scarier:

In 1964 they upgraded the African Veldt:

The "lions of the rain forest" look just had to go.  This, looks more like what we all think of:

 The "Lost Safari" was also added in 64.

In 1994 the boathose was rebuilt:

In 95 the river was shifted when the Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye attraction was added.

You can see the river which passes just to the left of the temple in this pic taken from it's front steps:

In 1997 the original boats were replaced:

There are piranhas now.

Shop at Trader Sam's:

The boat house:

If you can't get enough of the skippers' bad jokes, you can always come back and take a "Jingle Cruise":

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 14, 2017 8:27 PM

That was fascinating! I remember the elephants, and the Swiss Family Robinson treehouse was not there, originally.

when I look at these pictures, I am thinking "African Queen", and that's what it is.

Also, I remember the shooting gallery right across from the boat ride.

The Jungle Boat is such a classic ! Thank You ! 

Also, I can see the detail became more elaborate as years went by. I recall the hippos, the elephants, I think there was a Tiger, and the man firing that pistol.

speaking of the barker at the Tiki Room, I do have a vague memory that is starting to come back.I don't think it was there last time.

I do recall from last time they nearly had to carry me out of there in my "special jacket".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:03 PM

Here's something a modern, self-respecting, 21st century model railroader would never do:

Maybe we should credit Disney for showing us the neccessity of "view blocks" on our layouts.  He certainly knew all about selective compression!  And there too is where a lot of myths about Disneyland were born.

I made a joke awhile back about the Matterhorn, stating that mine is much easier to move around.  If I were to ask what land you think the mountain belongs in, you'd likely say Fantasyland.  But in 1959 it was considered a Tomorrowland attraction.  Why?  Most likely because it was the first tube steel coaster in America.  But also because it was part of the 1959 expansion that added the Submarine Voyage (later called "Voyage Through Liquid Space") , the Monorail and made the Autopia larger.  I'm not sure exactly when the mountain was "relocated", but calling it a Fantsyland attraction certainly makes more sense to most of us.  Especially after the 1982 remodel that made Fantasyland look much more like an Alpine village.

Back in the early days, Disneyland attractions were practically on top of each other.  And view-blocking was a thing of the future that couldn't come to pass until the trees grew.  Take a look at these photos of the entrance to Adventureland:

The one above is dated July 18, 1955.  That's the first day the park was officially open to the public.  On the left, you can see the Jungle Cruise, and accross from it are the Bazaar and Cantina.

Turn around inside the archway and look back toward the hub and Sleeping Beauty Castle seems to be within spitting distance:

There just weren't as many effective transitions between areas as there are now.  In the picture of the arch from the hub side, there's a pinkish building with white balconies in the background.  On the opposite side of the building is Frontierland.  And because the area was much more sparse in those days, you could see more of the Jungle Cruise as you were crossing into Frontierland.

The transition point between the lands was sort of a "side door".

The Shooting Gallery is just to the left of the Westward Ho. Trading Company (formerly the Frontierland Trading Post) in the background of the photo above.

Looking at it from the hub, you can see how tight everything is:

Going between the two left towers of the stockade is a very short trip between the two lands.

This 1955 map from a Bank of America brochure shows the little path clearly and yes, it's just to the right of the Jungle Cruise dock which is #1 in the red Adventureland section.  The Shooting Gallery would be about where the #2 is in the blue Frontierland segment.

Here's the Shooting Gallery:

Now called the "Shooting Exposition", it's all about lasers:

Ever eat at this place?

Not exactly my thing, but it was next door to the Shooting Gallery and since it had such a clever "vending machine" I thought I'd include it.  Big Smile

Did you know the Tiki Room was supposed to be a restaurant?  It's initial sponsor was American Airlines but that soon changed to Dole which makes more sense if it was a food service kinda place.  It was going to be called the "Magic Fountain" and would have shared a kitchen with both the Tahitian Terrace and Plaza Pavillion restaurants (the back to back buildings).  Tiki room admission was 75 cents in 1963, which was probably a bargain considering it was also the ONLY air-conditioned building in Disneyland!  Big Smile

If you think of how things are situated at the hub, sharing a kitchen with those 2 restaurants wasn't too far-fetched.

Especially since the Tiki Room is outside Adventureland.  That white gingerbread work on the left of the photo above is the Plaza Pavillion of Main Street USA.

It may have happened sooner, but at least by 1965 the ride came to have "United Air Lines" logos plastered all over it:

Explore the gardens and get to know your Tiki gods.

Though the gardens look like they'd be more fun to explore at night.

2006 photo of the Tiki Room:

The Tiki Room opened on June 19, 1963:

Getting good photos in the celluloid days was always tough since they discouraged flash photgraphy as "our performers are tempermental" to quote the pre-show spiel.  But in the digital age photographers are doing much better.

Jose:

Michael:

and Fritz:

...are the stars of the show.  But this is the place where "the birds sing words and the flowers croon":

And these guys have something to say too:

The magic fountain stayed:

But you're supposed to leave your food and drink in one of these:

At WDW the backdoor to Frontierland is just as easy to follow without noticing.

The WDW Tiki Room:

The barker bird is in the little rounded roof bit just to the left of the entrance.

Well, it's getting late for me.  I'll get to the Disneyodendron Semper Florens Eximus tomorrow!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, October 16, 2017 10:29 PM

The Frito Kid triggers something, probably one of those novelties my parents pointed out to me when I was very young. Those first visits to Disneyland, the fragments, and bits and pieces that have remained in my memory are selective at best.

I recall things like what they were selling in the gift stands. In Adventureland, adjacent to the Jungle Boat Cruise, they were selling rubber tipped spears. Go native ! Also, which we bought, were enormous suckers made of swirls of multi- colored candy. I believe it had Mickey on the cellophane wrapper. Too big to finish ! We tried to take it home, but my brother and I fell asleep in the car ride home. It wasn't there in the morning, so I think it got tossed !

As I probably mentioned before, my brother and I wore matching shirts, although one might be blue, the other red, and both of us had crewcuts. We came away from that trip with both of us styling the red toy soldier's cap from " Babes in Toyland".

Disneyland was a great place for a kid ! 

Walt had "the Wonderful World of Disney" tv show in the 60's, and on one episode, he introduced the birds from the Tiki Room. That may be the color pictures you have of Walt and the birds. On that show, they also would show Toy Soldier's battle scene from "Babes", among other things. There is also a clip, it may have been on that show,about the completion of the Monorail. It showed Walt with an enormous wrench tightening a nut on one of the Monorail'S supports. He says " if you want anything done right, you have to do it yourself ".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:35 PM

Last year WGBH (Boston) did a 4 hour documentary on Walt Disney: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/walt-disney/ and there were several scenes in it taken from Walt's TV show including scenes of the filming of Babes in Toyland.  The show was originally called "Walt Disney's Disneyland" and ran from 1954-1958.  Then "Walt Disney Presents" from 58 to 61 and "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color" from 61 to 69.  There were also "The Wonderful World of Disney" 69-79, "Disney's Wonderful World" 79-81, "Walt Disney" 81-83, "The Disney Sunday Movie" 86-88, "The Magical World of Disney" 88-90 and "The Wonderful World of Disney" 91-present.

But who can forget the kaliedoscope:

Here's what you would have seen during the first pivotal year when Disney was producing partner for ABC, a move that gave him a lot of capital for Disneyland.:

  • Nov 3, 1954 Alice in Wonderland
  • Nov 10, 1954 Prarie Seal Island
  • Nov 17, 1954 The Donald Duck Story
  • Nov 24, 1954 So Dear My Heart
  • Dec 1, 1954 A Story of Dogs
  • Dec 8, 1954 Operation Undersea
  • Dec 15, 1954 Davy Crockett: Indian Fighter
  • Dec 22, 1954 A Present for Donald
  • Dec 29, 1954 Beaver Valley / Cameras in Africa
  • Jan 5, 1955 Treasure Island Part 1
  • Jan 12, 1955 Treasure Island Part 2
  • Jan 19, 1955 Monsters of the Deep
  • Jan 26, 1955 Davy Crockett: Goes to Congress
  • Feb 2, 1955 The Wind in the Willows
  • Feb 9, 1955 Progress report/Nature's Half Acre  The first half of the episode told the story of building Disneyland
  • Feb 16, 1955 Cavalcade of Songs
  • Feb 23, 1955 Davy Crockett: At The Alamo
  • Mar 2, 1955 From Aesop to Hans Christian Andersen
  • Mar 9, 1955 Man In Space
  • July 13, 1955 The Pre-opening Report From Disneyland
  • Oct 27, 1955 The Disneyland Story

Episode #194 which aired May 17, 1964 was titled: Disneyland Goes To The World's Fair.  Airing Jan 3, 1965 was #221: Disneyland 10th Anniversary and on Dec 18, 1966 there was #280: Disneyland Around the Seasons which aired 3 days after Walt's death.  Probably the show I'd most like to see beyond the early DL episodes, is #287 from Jan 21, 1968 Disneyland: From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of Tomorrow.  Babes in Toyland aired as the feature program on Dec 21 and 28, 1969 #338 & 352.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:37 PM

The "Wonderful World of Color," I remember it well.  Not to be missed in our house!

And I love that shooting gallery!  Who else but Disney's "Imagineers" could make a Hawken rifle shoot laser beams?  Jeremiah Johnson would loved one!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:12 PM

We grew up with that show(S). Not to mention the Mickey Mouse Club.Walt gave an insight into the progress at Disneyland. He presented his dreams to us on national television.

I did not realize there were so many incarnations of this program. I lived without a television in my first apartment for 2 or 3 years.

Played with N gauge trains, though.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 6:16 PM

Postwar Paul
I did not realize there were so many incarnations of this program.

Yeah, me neither!  There's only a three year gap between 83 and 86 when they didn't have something going on one of "the big three".  But that window would also (I guess) correspond with the start of The Disney Channel.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, October 19, 2017 7:31 PM

Ever hear of the Magic Kingdom utillidors?

Not the most exciting part of Walt Disney World to be sure, but until recent years they were off limits to guests.

This is how those characters appear and vanish so easily.

Disneyland has utility tunnels, but they're not as multipurpose as those at WDW.

WDW generates power using jet engines, I assume by using the heat to boil water and turn power turbines, but I'm not sure.

The utillidors also house the Magic Kingdom's pneumatic refuse and recycling collection systems.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, October 19, 2017 11:09 PM

what a great layout I could build in there ! See how my mind works ?

It makes sense to move all that materiel out of plain sight, and from a traffic standpoint as well.

I had no idea...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, October 20, 2017 6:45 PM

All kinds of park infrastructure just a few feet underground.  Here's a DACS (Though I have to imagine these have been upgraded since 1971):

Wardrobe:

Kinda reminds me of something....

As fun as poking around under Walt Disney World would be, I think I'd rather explore the nooks and crannies here:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, October 20, 2017 7:22 PM

You're right ! Too much fun stuff topside !

And for me, that starts and ends with the trains !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, October 30, 2017 6:45 PM

Finally!  Big Smile

As of today I can finally call West Main Street official.

Though I think I'm going to black-out that castle wall.  Anyways, the Fire house turned out well.  Thanks largely to the great photos I found that I was able to manipulate into a photo-realistic representation.

On the flip side....

Left to right: Pinocchio, Snow White and Peter Pan.  Here's the inside of Peter Pan's Flight:

I had the ride vehicles from a Polly-Pocket playset seen here in 2016:

and I found the mural online.

Over at Snow White, and this didn't photograph well, is Maleficent looking down on the guests below:

The Fantasyland attractions replace Liberty Square, which lets me put Independence Hall back on my postwar layout.

Now all I have to do is make it look like this in the next couple of weeks:

Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, October 30, 2017 11:08 PM

It looks great ! Excellent job! I see the lighting in your structures, nice effect.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, January 26, 2018 8:39 PM

Hey Becky,

Thought you might find this interesting:

found some old pictures of my brother and I with our Disneyland hats. Our names embroidered on the visors. It is dated April '59 on the edge of the picture. Must have been our first visit. I am told that there is also a picture of us in the wheel house of the Mark Twain. Still looking for that.

oh, and I talked to my brother last week, he corroborates my story about the trees from "Babes in Toyland" being on display. Plus, he also recalls part of the toy factory being on display ! 

Paul

And let me mention the hats:

the hats we are wearing are a cap with a Disneyland patch on the front, and a visor. They are Not the ones with the Mickey Mouse ears.

And on a visit in the early 60's, we both had red Disneyland hats that were styled to look like the toy soldiers from "Babes in Toyland".

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, January 27, 2018 6:29 PM

Cool!

This is one of the little stands I've been wanting to model for some time.  It was called "The Hatmosphere" at some point in it's existence:

Hats everywhere!

Hats at the main entrance too:

This little girl is wearing a marching band style hat:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, January 28, 2018 11:36 AM

Well, I do not see our hats any where in that shop. I remember they gave you a choice of styles. My brother and I always had matching hats.

Another interesting thing is there are no Mickey Mouse hats in the pictures. I guess they must have come along later?

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, January 28, 2018 4:29 PM

I don't see any 'coonskin hats either!  Davey C. would be most disappointed!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, January 28, 2018 6:58 PM

I would imagine you could find the skins at the Trading Post:

Which, of course, was Crockett adjacent.  Big Smile

The famous ear hats were invented by Roy Williams, the Big Mousketeer and Disney staff artist, as headgear for the Mickey Mouse Club TV show in 1955.  So in theory they should have spread to the park not long after the show's premier.  Certainly by November of 55 when the Mickey Mouse Club Circus opened out back of the Autopia:

It was the real deal too:

But note the small crowd in this photo:

Walt just didn't understand how revolutionary his fledgling park was and didn't realize that people weren't coming to California to see a circus.  It lasted until September of 56.

The big top was later used as a picnic pavilion.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, January 29, 2018 10:22 PM

Really cool to know about the circus ! That came and went B-4 my first visit in '59.

I just realized that I recall 3 different hat styles that we had:

1. The cap, with patch and visor. In one of our pictures, as I mentioned.

2. Marching Toy Soldier. When "Babes in Toyland" came out, and was being promoted heavily.

3. the " Yankee" ( Union soldier cap.) It is visible in one of your pictures of the hat shop.

We grew up with Disneyland!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, January 29, 2018 11:10 PM

It's funny how memories link together like a chain. One thing reminds you of something else that happened around that same time. I remember we had records of show tunes playing in our house. We had " My Fair Lady", "Porgy and Bess", "Camelot", among others on the stereo. We had Disney's soundtrack album for "Babes in Toyland". It was really nice. The album opened up and had stills from scenes in the movie. And all those songs! Maybe that's why I can almost sing along with this movie.

Then came the Beatles, and they dominated. Tv, movies, radio. By '65 and '66 you could change radio stations, and the Beatles would be playing on 3 different stations simultaneously.3 different songs, of course.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:05 PM

I know what you mean.  In the early 70's my friends and I swore if we had to listen to "American Pie" or "Nights In White Satin" one more time we were going to rip out our car radios and throw 'em to the side of the road!

Too much of a good thing indeed!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:09 PM

There's a pic or two around here somewhere of me wearing a kepi while touring the Gettysburg monuments.  And for me it was anything by Madonna that was driving me nuts in the 80's!  Stick out tongue

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 8:08 PM

Don't get me wrong ! I love the Beatles, and it's never too much Beatles for me. I was just trying to paint the picture of what it was like in the mid 60's. You can't talk about the 60's without some kind of footnote about the Beatles. Still love their music to this day ! 

Paul

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:19 PM

tick...tick...tick....

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Leverettrailfan on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 9:16 PM

I was simply thrilled when more of my mom’s old records turned up (she got rid of most of them), and there was a copy of ‘Rubber Soul’. 

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:51 PM

The Beatles were the " Soundtrack of my childhood". Their music was playing constantly throughout the sixties, on the radio, and in our house.

So, when we talk about Disneyland in the sixties, somehow my mind links to the Beatles.

Isn't that amazing ? 

 Here's another thing:

I was watching a clip on you tube last night of a very young Neil Young in Buffalo Springfield, roughly around the same time as "Rubber Soul".  It's amazing what this man has accomplished, ( he performed at Woodstock, for crying out loud ). Then became a Guru at Lionel. It's worth checking out, if you have an interest in music of that era...

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:55 PM

Penny Trains

tick...tick...tick....

 

the clock is ticking. Could it be time for a trip back to the Magic Kingdom?

 

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Posted by Leverettrailfan on Thursday, April 19, 2018 9:13 AM

Even though for me, it was growing up in the early 2000s, the beatles were indeed the soundtrack of my childhood, particularly my early childhood. We listened to them a lot when I was little. I think, at my request! They were the only ‘60s/‘70s artist I heard much of as a kid, in all honesty. Such great memories!!

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, April 19, 2018 7:05 PM

It took me awhile, but I finally found that Babes In Toyland at the Main Street Opera House pic!

And yes....I've selected my next target:

I need to incorporate both the Skyway and the Monorail into the Small World module permanently.  Look at the background of this pic and you can see that I had to severly warp one of the Skyway towers with steel wire to keep it from derailing the Monorail:

They've been fighting each other for 4 years and the time is ripe for finding a better solution than attaching something to one of the metal clips for the window behind the curtain!  Laugh  The only real question is whether or not I'll rebuild all of Small World or just fix what needs to be fixed.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, April 19, 2018 10:19 PM

Penny Trains

It took me awhile, but I finally found that Babes In Toyland at the Main Street Opera House pic!

And yes....I've selected my next target:

I need to incorporate both the Skyway and the Monorail into the Small World module permanently.  Look at the background of this pic and you can see that I had to severly warp one of the Skyway towers with steel wire to keep it from derailing the Monorail:

They've been fighting each other for 4 years and the time is ripe for finding a better solution than attaching something to one of the metal clips for the window behind the curtain!  Laugh  The only real question is whether or not I'll rebuild all of Small World or just fix what needs to be fixed.

 

Although Disney may have destroyed most of the negatives of the Babes in Toyland display on Main Street, modern forensics makes it possible to prove the existence of said display.

Just messin', but glad you found that picture. Apparently not too many pictures survive. Some day a picture of the trees may surface.

Your layout looks great, you don't need to change a thing ! I am very impressed with all the detail, even the Mickey Mouse logo on the station grounds !

Paul

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, April 20, 2018 7:21 PM

Postwar Paul
you don't need to change a thing !

Laugh  That would never do!  Laugh  My to-do list:

  1. Integrate Small World with Skyway and Monorail
  2. Repair and enhance Small World
  3. Add tower of 4 winds
  4. Repair and augment Skyway
  5. Main Street needs signage
  6. Tomorrowland needs signage
  7. Pangalactic Pizza Port
  8. Hatmosphere
  9. Circle Vision 360
  10. Carousel of Progress
  11. Repair Monorail Station (this one's kinda important because of the fire)
  12. Re-roof Pirates of the Caribbean
  13. Experiment with blue lamps inside Space Mountain
  14. Second Monorail train
  15. Second parking lot tram
  16. Redo Town Square (flagpole)
  17. Plaza (hub) gardens
  18. Balloon vendors
  19. Augment Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse
  20. Peoplemover
  21. Rebuild Sleeping Beauty Castle
  22. More figures (especially kids!)

And eventually it would be great if these "modules" all had a platform with base scenery and a plug and socket wiring system built-in.

I keep coming up with crazy new ideas all the time and that's the fun part!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, April 20, 2018 8:03 PM

And excursion cars for the DLRR.  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, April 20, 2018 8:18 PM

You are much more organized than I am. My projects start out with only the vaguest idea of what I would like to accomplish. I engineer things as I go, as problems arise. 

The final result is a surprise...

even to me !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, July 22, 2018 7:49 PM

OK. Time for some new pics! Not much excitement I'm afraid, just A LOT of upgrading and enhancing this year!


First up, Pirates of the Caribbean needed a better roof:





I've been using that tile roof texture longer than I can remember!  The new one looks better imho:






Of course, redoing one part of a paper model often leads to other things. So, one wall needed to be redone, the parapet on the roof needed straightening (which necessitated mixing paint to match the original red cardstock with a few years of sun fading) and while I was at it I replaced the original blue cobblestone base (which was so warped it looked like the building was on a hill) with a new red brick texture that's more complimentary than the blue. Here's a side-by-side with the original build photo on the left:

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Considering this model has been in and out of boxes for 6 years it's holding up fairly well.


This one earns the "most obnoxious paper model" award.

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Why? Certainly not because of the buildings. Nope. What's new is the tiny little town square plot which replaces this:

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At first glance you might think the only paper model involved is the plaque at the base of the flag pole. But that overlooks the "death by a thousand cuts" fencing! Which is also a paper model!  Anyhoo. While I had Main Street out of storage I added signage to the storefronts.

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I had planned to light them up but figured it would be too difficult to retro-fit them. Oh well!


Lastly, so far, I upgraded the trees on and around Tom Sawyer Island:

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Lichen is nice, but not terribly durable for a model that has to be moved around so much. My new type trees are more forgiving:


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And I uprooted and re-flocked the pine trees:

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Today I started making new trees for Sleeping Beauty Castle enhancements.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:00 AM

Becky - as usual - WOW!

Regards, Roy

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:32 AM

I always enjoy looking at your models. They're great ! 

I won't be playing trains too much until the dust settles from this move, but it's the start of a new chapter, and I'm excited.

Keep on keepin' on, they look wonderful !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, July 28, 2018 6:21 PM

Thanks guys!

I really am amazed at how much better these cheapo bottle brush pines from a craft store look.

And all I did was brush on some Elmer's Glue-All and dribble on some fine turf with a spoon!  Big Smile  Here's what they looked like beforehand:

I had tried to hide the "blueness" of some of them doing an in-situ reflocking job using hairspray and fine turf.  But I think you may agree the "clumpiness" that developed using actual glue rather than just hair spray makes all the difference.  They still look like cheapo bottle brush trees, and certainly they won't win any awards for portraying a conifer realistically, but they do look better!  Big Smile

Call Hans and Otto!  I need to enhance those trees on the slopes of the Matterhorn too!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by RJSMITHINDY on Thursday, August 2, 2018 5:49 AM
Penny Trains, I’ve really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for sharing the information and photos of Disney history as well as the construction & reconstruction of your Disney layout - a work of art. From one of your posts, I like you, wish Lionel would produce an O gauge tourist passenger car like WDW RR. Have you run across any good substitutes or something that could be modified? I’ve thought about building one from an O-27 flat car.

- Rob

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, August 2, 2018 7:28 PM

Thanks!

One of the things I've considered doing over the years is modifying Bachmann's On30 coaches with Lionel trucks and couplers.  Their cars would be a good representation of Disneyland's original yellow coaches:

But I'm just not sure it would work, and at 75 bucks a pop experimenting would be hard to do.  (Of course, if I really wanted to be accurate I'd be using narrow gauge anyways!  Smile, Wink & Grin  But Lionel's are more reliable!  Big Smile)

Of course, Bachmann can make these in just about every gauge except the one I want:

But what are you going to do?  Big Smile

Another option is the MTH Overton cars:

Not bad.  But really not what I'm looking for.  A better option is a LaBelle kit: https://www.labellemodels.com/scale-passenger-cars-c-22_28.html?osCsid=3m3o0eusnnqgp79nih4iao21c1 again, not the cheapest option considering I'd have to build them and buy trucks.

So, what I consider my most plausible option is exactly what you've suggested.  Get some junker flatcars and build on top.  What's holding me back are 3 problems:

  1. Celestory roof.
  2. Sturdy framing.
  3. Consistent seating.

One of these days.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, August 3, 2018 8:18 PM

I remember riding those clerestory cars, and my dad cautioning me to not be out on the open platforms when the train was moving. I was surfing around the internet, and I think it was  On the " Steam Channel", a guy had purchased at least some of the cars, and was operating them , with some very cute little " tea kettle " locomotives.

The Bachmann's are very close, but the trucks...

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Posted by RJSMITHINDY on Friday, August 3, 2018 10:52 PM

Penny Trains, I think we are on the same page. There are items out there that are hitting all around the target, but nothing out there to make this an easy solution for O/O-27 fans. Lionel seems to have the best relationship with Disney. Maybe if enough of us Disney fans email them a suggestion to produce one maybe they will get the hint: TalkToUs@Lionel.com

In the meantime I’ll keep trying to come up with an alternative. 

- Rob

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, August 4, 2018 6:31 PM

I.ve had one of these for about 30 years now:

Believe it or not I've seen people try to fit these with O gauge trucks so they could be pulled by MTH 4-6-0's. 

Speaking of which:

MTH did do a lot of work on the very set that would help me out of my jam.  Believe it or not that station is sold to go with HO scale WDW RR trains!  Confused  (They claim the monorail is HO scale.  I think it's S.)

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 21, 2018 6:44 PM

SLEEPING BEAUTY CASTLE

Time for an upgrade!  Big Smile

I had hoped to rebuild the castle this year (and for at least 3 prior years) but the moolah never seems to be available for the ink and paper that would be required to build a new model.  She looks pretty good for her age though:

BTW I took this photo to demonstrate scale on a paper modelling forum.  That's a 1:43, 1:50 and 2 HO figures standing in the doorway.  From them and pics of the real castle we decided the model is closer to 1:50, although the designer never worried about such things.

Anyways.  When a piece of scrap castle material which was taken form a folder that lives in a box in the dark basement and not in the sun as the rest of the model does is placed beside it, the damage caused by the sun becomes more obvious:

Another issue was my "water".  I poured polyeurethane (water-based) over an acrylic painted base and well....

The poly migrated, to put it mildly.  Into the sand, up the castle walls and just turned my nice white sand beaches an ugly yellow over the years.

And then there was the "bite"...

A slight miscalculation of available real estate vs. generic measurements on my layout diagram resulted in a "field adjustment".  Big Smile  It didn't go away, but it looks a bit more "planned" than it wasn't.  Wink

So....here's the enhanced version:

New trees, new clean beaches and a nicer bridge.

It should fit in better with my current scenery scheme.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:48 PM

Just as Disneyland sees occasional upgrades, refurbishment, new paint, etc... it stands to reason that a model would need the same. UV, dust, and natural deterioration are to be expected.

To make it new again....

 UV is an extremely destructive force in Garden Railroading. With some brands of track, the plastic ties may turn to dust in a few years of So Cal sunshine. But the rails are eternal...

You have brought back the vibrancy, and color. Looks great !!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 13, 2018 7:04 PM

Back to what I started out to do, I finally finished project #1: fix the Small World vs. DLRR vs. Monorail vs. Skyway problem.

Due to it being just a few degrees below double heck this summer, moving furniture (let alone any more than I really had to) just wasn't possible.  I had to wait for cooler days to get the measurements I needed.  That operation looked like this:

The original center "island" was just a posterboard oval stuffed with lights and newspaper.  Last year those lights got damaged and that meant removing the whole garden to replace the string.

The new version is made like an "I-beam" of illustration board with holes drilled in the top section for the bulbs to poke through:

I also replaced the fencing in the cue area, made better water (hot glue over blue paint) and made a little "hedge" to block direct view of the bulbs and allow only the colored light to be seen.

And around back, the transportation department's issues are hopefully fixed.

So, that's what's new at paper Disneyland.  It'll be set up after I get the other two layouts finished.  Wink

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:05 PM

Your " to do " list

is getting " to done "

looking good !!

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Posted by bobhwalker on Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:23 PM

Really looks nice! Is any of this animated?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 14, 2018 6:14 PM

bobhwalker

Really looks nice! Is any of this animated?

 

Thanks!  Big Smile  So far only the Monorail and Lionel train move, but I'd love to get more movement.  I may be getting a carousel soon.  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, December 23, 2018 6:47 PM

Remember this picture when I tell you that it's time to retire the Astro Orbitor:

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:02 PM

Nice touch Becky, the Astro-Orbiter perched on top of a film reel!

Very Hollywood! 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, December 24, 2018 7:02 PM

Always has been.  The second reel is my "temporary stand" to plant the tower on while I'm installing the base structure on the layout.  Down at the bottom:

...the central core hides the extension cord that lights the model.  The Orbitor was built around a dowell the same length as the height of the base structure.  It's also identical in diameter to the hole in the center of the reel.  The reels were a good choice (not only because they were cheap) because the "Rocket Tower" was supposed to have a representation of the Peoplemover on the middle deck:

And therin lies my plans for the future.  Take it back to the Apollo inspired Rocket Jets of 1967:

The trick is going to be finding a turntable with a motor and gearbox that can run either off the 14 volt AC grid or a 110v extension cord.  Either way, somewhere between 15 and 20 RPM lies my ideal turning speed.  If successful, the Orbitor will be retired and replaced with a model that I don't have to turn with a bamboo pole!  Laugh

Oh, and the second 35mm film reel was supposed to be for the Carousel of Progress:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, December 24, 2018 9:14 PM

A slow-moving turntable?  Maybe you can find a old record player in a thrift or second-hand shop somewhere.  Some were built to rotate as slow as 16rpm if I remember correctly, specifically for language course records or spoken-word records for the blind where hi-fidelity playback wasn't critical.  And of course it would run off 110 volt AC house current.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, December 25, 2018 6:49 PM

I'll set up a saved search on ebay for one.  Now that you mention it, I think I had one that ran from 16 to 78rpm at one time.  The only other thing I could think of is a commercial display or maybe MicroMark would have something I could use.  Well, I have time.  Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:35 PM

Model is moving along....

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:57 PM

Looks like something NASA wished they had!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, June 2, 2019 6:42 PM

Well I checked out Micro-Mark and they have a 110v motor but it's geared for 2.5rpm which is a bit slow.  I have a few plasic gears from things I salvaged over the years including one that's about 6 inches in diameter.  If I can get a motor that can run slow enough I might be able to cobble up a drive system that could be mounted under the top deck of the tower.  From these pics you can see the ceiling is sort of bowl shaped:

They're next:

This is going to be the biggest, most complicated paper model I've designed in years.  Too bad I can't make these work!  Wink

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 2, 2019 6:57 PM

deleted

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, June 2, 2019 8:55 PM

After another day's design session:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, June 6, 2019 8:26 PM

Added the tower today:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, June 10, 2019 8:47 PM

Just about done with the 3d model:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, July 25, 2019 8:59 PM

Time for an update!  Big Smile  First of all, here's "the gadget":

Any suggestions on how to deaden the noise?  It will be housed in the "restaurant" below the jets and will have a central shaft to spin the ride.  It's a Promax 180 motor by the way.

Concurrently, the last of the "originals" has been getting a facelift.

On the left is a photo from 2011 when the treehose was new and the image on the right shows the enhancements I always wanted it to have.

Most important to me was finding a way to add the water scooping system to the wheel:

Here's the real deal:

And my impression of it:

The trick was finding a "ladder-like" material that would be rigid enough to span the distance yet flexible enough to curve around the wheels of the "motor" if you will.  I settled on plastic canvas.  I cut out several rows of unwanted squares and was able to carve away the little nubs that remained well enough to be convincing.  The bamboo scoops are just skinny plastic drinking straws with holes punched up top for attaching to the "rope ladder" and circles of cardstock glued to their bottoms.  Painted a nice shade of banana they mimic bamboo well enough.  The top ends are glued directly to the tree branches and there's actually a sort of mast hidden on the roof of the house that let me pull the tree limb taught with piano wire.

For water I stuck with hot glue spread over a painted surface.  For an area this size it's fairly convincing and not as messy as the polyeurethane I used in 2011 (which soaked into the landscaping and left me with only damp sand rather than a shallow stream).

The bridge was originally a pale green but I decided to update it too.

But watch out!

Yes, that's a cannon peering out at you!  Wink

The other big "planned but never built" improvement I finally tackled involved a bit of cooking:

Ever wonder what happens when you overbake Sculpey clay?

It swells up a bit and starts smoking!  Tongue Tied  Or maybe it was steam, at any rate, it stunk up the joint!  Ick!  This is WHITE clay by the way.  Wink

Oh well, the stove came out looking pretty good after I carved it back a bit!

The table is toothpicks, popsicle sticks and a tounge depressor but the china is dollhouse miniatures.

Finally, the kitchen floor is real shale rock.  I laid it on a bed of Elmer's Glue-All and brushed the same glue over the surface of the flakes to give it a wet look.  Then I went back and painted in the grout.

So there you go.  A new and improved look for the last of the unenhanced or unreplaced original models of 2011.  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, July 26, 2019 10:46 AM

Spectacular modeling Becky, as always!

Quieting that motor unit?  I'd try greasing the gears, I see there's a worm gear plus a large conventional one.  A light greasing of both may serve to quiet that rattling noise a bit.  Try a bit of oil on the bearings/bushings as well.

You could also try boxing the unit.  A dense box material around it should muffle the noise a bit.

Beyond that, I'm stumped.

Wayne

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, July 26, 2019 9:30 PM

What a great job! I had forgotten about the buckets on the treehouse until now, but it is all coming back !

As for quieting the mechanis, I have 2 thoughts:

1. Gear mesh. You don't want the teeth bottomed out, but too much play would generate noise. If you can adjust the motor's position, it could help.

2. It may be inherent to the type of gear box, in which case not much can be done.

Try experimenting with the gear mesh. And a little grease

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:47 AM

Just thought of something else, that brass support bar for the gear assembly looks a bit light.  Try pressing your finger on it while the motor's operating and see if that deadens the noise a bit.  Vibration of that brass could be causing some of the noise as well, if it is try "beefing" it up a bit.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, July 27, 2019 1:02 PM

Howdy Penny-- Wayne mentioned to me how impressive your latest project is that I thought "better check it out and see". 

Love the floor, the chimney, the tree, the Everything!

Superb craftmanship and imagination. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:12 PM

Flintlock76
that brass support bar

Yeah, it definitely needs some reinforcement.  It wobbles!  Tongue Tied

Part of my problem is that my 3D modeling program doesn't allow me real world measurements.  I can only guess at them when I unfold the model from 3D to 2D.  And even then there's a lot of test printing and building to find out if what I have is really buildable.  My last test gave me a first story structure (see image below) the right size to fit both the motor assy. and the scale the surrounding buildings were made in.

I want that big white rectangle to be about 6 cm tall.  If I go with a 40cm diameter for the lower deck (round part), which is about the size of the 35mm film reel this will be replacing, then I end up with a total height of 58cm, which is taller than the castle.  Worse, the ride vehicles end up closer to HO, which I'd like to avoid.  So, I have to rescale the rocket cars and maybe the restaurant (The Lunching Pad) and try again.

Oh, and that gives me a total length of 127.3 cm for the Peoplemover.  That's bigger than Big Thunder Mountain!  Wink

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:14 PM

Miningman
Superb craftmanship and imagination.

Thanks!  I have a lot of fun!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, June 14, 2020 7:00 PM

Time to get back to work!  Big Smile

During disassembly back in January I took some key measurements.  The old fashioned way!  Wink

This one is the key:

There's just no room to play with in this area since buildings are practically on top of one another already.  So I had to know the exact diameter of the base of the original Astro Orbitor.  It proved to be slightly less than 400mm.

Why do it in metric?  Because most of the software I use was developed in Japan.  Here's what the most critical component, Pepakura Designer 4, looks like:

I used 350mm wide for the lower level when I created the paper parts pages, which you can see in their basic form on the right.  I wasn't 100% positive that my measurements were correct last fall.  That coupled with time running out fast was why I stopped developing this model in October.  Getting out that wood yardstick was essential.  Now I can move forward knowing I'm 50mm inside the space previously occupied.

You'll notice that the 3-D model here isn't complete nor is it highly detailed.  Well, each face, a space enclosed between vertices, adds another facet to what Pepakura has to do.  So, why should I keep all 8 Astro Jet ride vehicles plus all of their associated ride hardware when I can copy the one finished (textured) model 7 times.  Silmilarly the elevator tower will be drawn elsewhere, I just needed the dimensions.

Here's another neat trick Pepakura can do:

The dialog box is giving me the precise length of the long side of what appears here as a red rectangle.  In actuality it's a box with two smaller boxes in the bottom and it will serve as the passenger compartment of the ride.  The measurement, distance between two vertices in a 3-D environment, is 31.311mm, or just a hair over 3 cm, which should be ample space for 2 riders.

This is the path the Peoplemover will take:

It will head straight for the Monorail station then turn (split?) and head toward the wall:

Now I can get back to work on making it pretty:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 14, 2020 7:59 PM

Looks like it's coming along beautifully!

Oh, the metric system?  While I believe that God in His wisdom put the Atlantic Ocean where it is to keep Europe's problems like Napoleon, Hitler, and the metric system far away from us, I have to admit the metric system does  have it's uses from time to time.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:10 PM

Speaking of Disney, guess what I found?

Anyone remember this classic?  Scared the hell out of me as a kid but I couldn't keep my eyes off him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDYId2Ab1o8  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:29 PM

A personal favorite:

See the show!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:39 PM

PS. This is the one that always scared me:

I live in an area with woods across the street and when I was a kid there was a bridal trail in there.  So there were horses back in the 70's and it was very spooky at night.  Tongue Tied

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:32 PM

Oh yeah, I don't know who's got the more frightening laugh, the Scarecrow or the Headless Horseman, both go through you like a knife!

Disney and his people were geniuses all right, not only could they make you happy and make you laugh, they could darn near give you a heart attack at times.

Great seeing Zorro again!  Tyrone Power was the best Zorro, but Guy Williams came awful close. 

Go get 'im Ty!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB8tiSMCwRE  

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Posted by pennytrains on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:49 PM

It is with heavy heart I must announce that paper Disneyland has closed forever.  However.  It can avoid the trash compactor if one of you adopts it.  So, I'm offering the entire layout to anyone who can come to Ohio and save it.  But be aware, I won't have very long in this house and I won't have the ability to store it for very long.  I'd much rather see it survive than have to destroy it.

Disneyland in storage:

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by fifedog on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 6:28 PM

Surprise Noooooooooo........

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:38 PM

Sad news.  I won't pry into the circumstances, they're none of my business, but this is sad to hear. 

Nothing I can do, I'm 900 miles away.  Anyone else?  Kalmbach folks, are you looking in?

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Posted by pennytrains on Friday, April 9, 2021 6:44 PM

My mother passed away on Easter at sundown.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, April 9, 2021 6:49 PM

Oh my dear God.  Becky, I am so sorry to hear that.

Please accept my sincere condolances.  

I don't have the words.

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Posted by fifedog on Friday, April 9, 2021 6:55 PM

Somehow I felt this had happened. My condolences, Becky. Angel here for her, and you.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Friday, April 9, 2021 7:18 PM

So sad Becky, it is the proper order of things but no help to the pain. Prayers for you and yours. Angel

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, April 9, 2021 7:25 PM

I am very, very sorry for your loss! Please accept my condolences. Life is so very fragile.

Paul

my mom passed away suddenly 3 years ago, it was a very sad time. The only good thing was the time spent with my brothers settling her estate. I usually don't see them as much. It helped.

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Posted by York1 on Friday, April 9, 2021 8:30 PM

Very sorry to hear that.  You have our sympathy.

York1 John       

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Posted by smokey1 on Friday, April 9, 2021 8:48 PM

Penny, so sorry to hear. My condolences to you and anyone who knew her. 

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Posted by Banks on Saturday, April 10, 2021 8:54 AM

So so sorry Becky. Prayers for you and yours.

Banks, Proud member of the OTTS  TCA 12-67310

  

   

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 10, 2021 9:23 PM

Becky, Vince "The Miningman" asked me to pass along his sympathies over your loss, which I said I would do gladly. 

He sends his regrets and condolances.

Mike "Wanswheel" sends his condolances as well.  He remembers your wonderful Christmas displays!  

"Miningman" and "Wanswheel" are banned from all aspects of the Forums so they have to speak through me.  I'm honored to be the messenger.

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Posted by phrankenstign on Sunday, April 11, 2021 1:05 PM

I'm sorry to learn what happened.  Hopefully she passed away as peacefully as possible.  One consolation is she'll always live on in your memories.  Be strong.

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Posted by Firesteel on Sunday, April 11, 2021 6:29 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your loss Becky. I haven't visited the forum often enough lately, so I am a little late offering my condolences. My father passed away last May, and I find myself still missing him. It seems we often hope everything will stay the same, but sadly, the good people in our lives can't be with us forever. Best wishes to you and your family.

Karl

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Posted by anjdevil2 on Tuesday, April 13, 2021 3:17 PM

My sincere and heartfelt condolences to you and your family, Becky.

May your Mom rest in peace and you have joyful and happy memories of her.

Angel Broken Heart

I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.
I am the venom in your skin  --- Breaking Benjamin


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Posted by pennytrains on Wednesday, April 14, 2021 5:30 PM

Thanks guys!  It helps!  Kisses

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by cheapclassics on Wednesday, April 14, 2021 9:04 PM

Good evening all,

More than a day late and a dollar short, but Becky please accept my condolences on the loss of your mom.  I had heard references on other threads here but had not had time to check.  I hope you find some comfort in knowing she is at peace. 

Yours sincerely,

Mike C. from Indiana

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Thursday, April 15, 2021 4:05 PM

Becky - so sorry for your loss Angel

Regards, Roy

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Posted by pennytrains on Thursday, April 15, 2021 5:33 PM

Thanks!  Kisses

I'll tell you one thing,it's shaping up to be exactly the kind of estate sale I would attend Tongue Tied:

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Banks on Monday, May 3, 2021 8:55 PM

Becky.......did you find a way to save Disney Land??

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Posted by pennytrains on Tuesday, May 4, 2021 6:45 PM

Not yet.  My lawyer thinks I shouldn't try to sell it because of the copyright issues.  It looks more and more like I'll be saving the trains and some electrical bits and "going godzilla" on the rest.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:51 PM

I don't know, I would think as long as you don't have the name "Disney" on any of the articles or even mention or suggest the name it would be all right, but then I'm not a lawyer, and my My 2 Cents is worth exactly that! 

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Posted by Banks on Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:53 PM

Becky....I'd hate to see that happen . Maybe offer it on some other platforms with more exposure such as Facebook marketplace 

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Posted by fifedog on Friday, May 7, 2021 7:54 AM

Idea  May I suggest the Children's Toy & Doll Museum, in Marietta, OH.

Looking at their Facebook page, would be a lovely home for such a lovely collection.

 

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Posted by pennytrains on Friday, May 7, 2021 6:16 PM

I've thought about that too.  Not that specific museum per'se, but donating at any rate.  My problems are two fold.  One, the museum charges admission and then they're making money off it.  Two, and this one's the biggie in my book, this stuff really wasn't built to "museum quality" standards.  I'm not an electrician, just a hobbyist who's reasonably sure this stuff won't burn under "normal circumstances."  Meaning operating under controlled conditions with supervision using the system I had at the time it was built and operated here.

My uncle is the executor of the estate and also in charge of the trust that will give me a short bit of time to find a way of supporting myself in whatever new place I end up living in.  So he was here today and he's going to ask the lawyer about it.  I have the same issue with my Christmas decorations.  If I donate them to say Midwest Railway Preservation Society to set up around the roundhouse, can, and will they get in trouble even though they accept "suggested donations" during open houses but also collect outright ticket fees for Christmas runs.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by York1 on Friday, May 7, 2021 6:22 PM

pennytrains
One, the museum charges admission and then they're making money off it.

pennytrains
If I donate them to say Midwest Railway Preservation Society to set up around the roundhouse, can, and will they get in trouble even though they accept "suggested donations" during open houses but also collect outright ticket fees for Christmas runs.

 

If those places are non-profits, which most museums and other similar places are, I don't believe there would be any issue with donating things to them, or even selling things to them.  I don't believe it would matter whether or not they charge admission.

Good luck!

York1 John       

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Posted by phrankenstign on Sunday, May 9, 2021 11:56 PM

If you have to find a place to live and a way to support yourself, then that's a much higher priority than saving Disneyland.  You need to make sure YOU find a safe place to make your new home.  Whether you can save Disneyland or not is not as important as your livelihood.  After all, you'll always have your memories of it and your amazing book!

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Posted by smokey1 on Monday, May 10, 2021 6:28 AM

Another idea you may try, eBay local pick-up only or Craigslist. But either way, I would have someone with you during pick-up.

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Posted by pennytrains on Thursday, May 13, 2021 6:03 PM

REPRIEVE!

The train buyer who came today is going to take the models to a show in September and try to sell them!  Big Smile

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by pennytrains on Saturday, July 10, 2021 5:08 PM

Well, the deal previously mentioned fell through.

 

 

BUT

 

 

Many are now in the hands of private owners who will love and care for them!  Big SmileYeah

But the trains stay with me!  BONUS!  Big SmileThumbs Up

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Leverettrailfan on Saturday, July 10, 2021 6:58 PM

Very late but offering my condolences, and also cheering for this victory!
I hope that things continue to look up.

-Ellie

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, July 10, 2021 9:45 PM

pennytrains
Many are now in the hands of private owners who will love and care for them!

Great news!  It'd be tragic for all that fine craftswomanship to go to waste!

And the trains stay with you?  Even better!

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Posted by pennytrains on Sunday, July 11, 2021 5:59 PM

The plot thickens!  Wink

I've already been contacted by the husband and wife who bought them asking for help in building a permanent display layout for them!  Woohoo!  Happy B-Day

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, July 11, 2021 7:37 PM

That's wonderful news!  Big Smile  Yes

Maybe you can make a business out of layout building?

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Posted by Leverettrailfan on Sunday, July 11, 2021 9:34 PM

Oh my, that's terribly exciting!! One thing's for certain... they couldn't have picked a better person for such a job!
Do keep us posted Big Smile
-Ellie

"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 2:47 PM

Great news Becky!

Regards, Roy

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Posted by Banks on Friday, July 16, 2021 8:43 PM

Great news Becky!!!! Keep us posted!

Banks, Proud member of the OTTS  TCA 12-67310

  

   

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Posted by Pandora Spocks on Thursday, October 6, 2022 9:00 AM

Hi! So I'm one of the husbands of the guys that purchased this incredible display at the estate sale. I stumbled on this thread when researching how to wire it. I know seriously nothing about model railroading and everything I've learned thus far is through Becky, who is an invaluable resource and I'm seriouly in awe of her talent. These pics don't even do it justice. We have Sleeping Beauty Castle, Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room, Small World, Country Bear Jamboree, Autopia, Big Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, the Tomorrowland sign, pieces of Main street, New Orleans Square, and assorted other pieces. We recently, a year after the initial purchase, acquired more pieces from another buyer. Everything except Big Thunder Mountain is currently on display and lit up. I'm gonna try and get BTM lit up this weekend so I can share pics of this incredible display that I am seriously honored to own.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:48 AM

Welcome aboard!  And we hope to hear more from you!

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Posted by pennytrains on Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:15 PM

Welcome!!!  10,000 thank yous!!!!  Bow

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Pandora Spocks on Tuesday, November 15, 2022 8:21 AM

So I re-wired Big Thunder Mountain over the past weekend after we determined that someone had definitely hooked it up to something incorrectly and blown all of the bulbs. Becky was of course super helpful in sourcing the lights and advising on technique and it went super smoothly. But I defintitely bought the wrong temperarure of LEDs and they're way too cool for my liking. They stick out like a sore thumb when it's placed with the other ones. So I ordered the right ones and I'm gonna re-wire it again this weekend.

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Posted by Pandora Spocks on Wednesday, December 21, 2022 1:02 PM

So here's a few pics of how we have it displayed. We live in a 2 bedroom apartment and converted the office into Beckyland. These pics really don't do it justice cause I'm not nearly as good of a photographer as Becky. The wires are hidden behind panels I made out of cardboard boxes and decoupaged ephemera that I kept from me and my husband's trips to Disneyland. The things on the wall are different Disneyland things I collected from trips and from estate sales.

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