pre-war freight cars

[Anonymous]

I just put together a set of pre -war freight cars and electric engine.When the cars go over the o22 switches the wheels of the cars short out and make the train reverse or short out my zw.Is there an answer to this problem or will this train sit on the shelf?

[mersenne6]

Something isn't right here. I've run pre-war through 022 switches for years and have never had the problem you are describing. I too use a ZW for power.

Questions:

Are your 022 switches the new ones or the ones made by Lionel 1945-1969? Mine date from this period. If they are the new ones perhaps that might be the problem.

Which kind of prewar freights? - latch coupler, box coupler, or automatic box coupler? It shouldn't matter since I've run everything through my switches but it does occur to me that if you have automatic couplers there might be a chance of a short of some kind which causes problems on a switch. I know this is probably a stretch but if you do have automatic couplers try putting a piece of electricians tape on the pickup shoe to see if the cars will go through without shorting.

Can you run the set around a loop without switches without shorting?

Can you run the set around a figure 8 without switches without shorting?

Does this happen with each switch?

Can you run the train around a loop with a UCS section and not get a short?

Can you run the engine through the switches by itself?

If you use a rubber band to couple the prewar cars to a post war engine does the same thing happen?

Can you run the electric and any one of the cars through the switch?

I don't know what the answers to these questions might mean I'm just trying to think of things you might want to try to help you narrow your search for the culprit.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes the "flying shoe" for the coupler and
unloading/accessory feature will short out on the
switches. Especially the plain metal shoes that
don't have any Bakelite around them. These early
shoes are wider and will sometimes touch the
center rail where it becomes larger in the trans-
ition point of the switch. The later Bakelite flying/
sliding shoe has only a small rivet as a contact
plus the form of the Bakelite lifts it clear of the
center rail on the switch.

You may have to try adjusting this shoe more to
the outside of the truck to get clearance away
from the center contact. Be very careful as the
shoe is somewhat delicate.

[3railguy]

Ches is correct on the shoe if it is completing a circuit across the hot and common rails. otherwise it would cause the coupler to pop open..Or the the coupler wire is shorting and getting hot current off the switch. It could also be the couplers are sagging causing a short . With track power on, hand push a car over a switch and watch the coupler gear and shoes as it glides over the switch to see what is sparking. Sometimes a little black tape around the offending hardware makes a temporary fix..

[Anonymous]

answers to Mersenne6 questions,
My o22 switches are modern era,I have latch couplers. I pushed a few of the cars thru by hand and noticed the wheels touch the outside rail and the center metal part of the switch this causes the short. I guess the answer is to change to postwar switches.,my wife will love me spending more money on little boy toys!

[Dave Farquhar]

I wonder if insulating the inside of the wheels with the so-called "liquid electrical tape" would help? And I'm guessing that if you want to restore the wheels back to original, you'd be able to get that stuff back off with creative use of some kind of solvent.

It's probably more palatable than replacing all of your switches. It might be less work too.

[wrmcclellan]

Pennsy Ed,

I took some of my 800 series and 500 series prewar through both modern (5132) and vintage 022's. The only way they would short is if the "crimp's" on the axles that limit the inward movement of the wheels (i.e. keeps the wheels in gauge) were worn out. Or the wheels themselves are worn where they can slide over the axle crimps.

Regards,
Roy

[lionelsoni]

You may be able to rejuvenate those wheels. Take the wheelsets off the trucks; take the wheels off the axles; and put a washer on each end of the axle, then replace wheels and wheelsets. There is a standard size that fits prewar axles snugly enough that it is caught by what is left of the upsets on the axle and will hold the wheels in about the right position. (My guess from here is #6. I'll check when I get home.)

[Anonymous]

lionelsoni
I just finished putting on the #6 washers as you suggested and evey car goes over the switches with no problems. Thanks to everyone who gave their ideas to help me with this problem.May you all have a HAPPY AND HEALTHY NEW YEAR Pennsy Ed

[lionelsoni]

I'm glad to hear you succeeded, but surprised that #6 worked! I did check the size as I promised, but then forgot to post the results. Which were that I had put #4 on some axles and a slightly reamed-out #2 on some smaller ones. However, since the size you used fits your axles, that is all that matters!