Lionel Conventional Classics 6-27767 Santa Fe Passenger set problems

[KRM]

A few years back I bought the Lionel Conventional Classics 6-27767 Santa Fe Blue Stripe Passenger 4-pack along with the 2 car Expansion pack 6-27772 and the Coach car 6-27775. They have never worked worth a hoot. 

 They were so heavy to pull that after I got them I put them away. The other big problem was the trucks would short out going over my O27 42R turnouts.

Today I got then out and lubed the wheels and pick-ups. Put them behind a bigger horse (a 218 ALCO and a twin motor B-unit that matches the 218) and started them around the layout. They still short out over the switches but with the lube pull much better. The trucks are very sloppy and seem to let the wheels shift all over the rails but I can't figure out what is making them short out on the turnouts..

 Am I the only one with this issue? Is there something I can do to make them work?      

 The switches are Lionel 6-65167 & 6-65168

[rtraincollector]

sent you a E-Mail

[KRM]

After working on this last night it seems to be a sloppy truck issue. The wheels are allowed to move in and out way to much. On the O54 and O72 curves the cars will derail by running the wheels off to the inside of the rail, tipping the car to the inside of the curve. So I need to find a way to shim the truck wheels out a bit more to keep them on the rails on the curves and from shorting on the switches.

I did get the car to cross the switch by putting some nail polish on the part that the wheels were shorting out on.

 Anyone know od a washer or shim for that fits the size of the axle??

[rtraincollector]

Kevin metal or plastic trucks as wondering if maybe you could bend in a little to tighten up the wheels on the trucks

[KRM]

RT they are built just like the post-war trucks but way sloppy. The outsides seem to be a pot metal and I am afraid to try to bend them out to remove the axle so I can put a shim on them. The center has little tabs that should keep the wheels out where they belong but must be to narrow. These cars work fine on O42 and smaller curves just the O54 and O 72 is where they fail but I have no problems with any post war cars going around anyplace on the layout.

On the one picture, you can see where the wheels were arcing on the inside from crossing the switches I tried to show the rub on the outside of the wheels where they derail to the inside of the inside rail on the curves. But it did not come out.

The wheels need to be held out not in so they will stay on the rails in the curve

 

 

 

[Firelock76]

That arcing looks nasty, any way you can get some insulating material between the wheels and the truck frame, like say, electrical tape?

[phillyreading]

Have you though about using Gargraves 042 switches in place of the Lionel switches? You mentioned that the passenger cars short out in the Lionel switches and the Gargraves switches are a different style switch without the derail feature(you can add the derail feature later if you want) but do have a switch motor with them. All you will need is the Gargraves switch and some adapter pins for 027 from Gargraves.

Lee Fritz

[KRM]

Thanks for the ideas but, I have 10 Lionel 42R switches on the layout and can’t afford to replace them with Ross, Gargraves or anything else, At that point it would be tear the whole layout apart and start over. Besides I run all kinds of car and stock and it is only these stupid cars I get issues with so something with their construction is the issue.

 Yesterday I did do some looking and found that the car's axles are shorter than the post-war axles and can move in the truck from side to side. So, I swapped them out with some post-war axles and wheels I had for that type truck and it took the slop out and the two cars that were derailing in the curves now don’t. Problem is that the post-war axle is a bit bigger in diameter than the modern axle so you have to use post-war axles and wheels and buy them for all of the cars. That would be seven cars worth of axles and wheels. What a PITA. The axles fit fine and snug in the truck ends and swapping them out made a big difference in the side to side slop and the arcing.

 I do still have an issue with the trailing truck on the observation car rear truck wanting to ride over the rail point in the right-hand switch running into the right-hand turn to the inside. It hits the point and wants to jump off. It is the only truck that does that because it is not being pulled to the right by the coupler as the rest are. So looking at that switch it is worn and I may need to replace the switch.  Running straight or leaving through the left-hand switch things are fine. I will keep everyone posted.

[phillyreading]

Have you tried adding some weight to the truck assembly on the last car?

Lee

[KRM]

I have not but did think about it Lee. Because it may be also be helped by the spring on the pick-up making the truck able to not be seated to the rails. I will see what happens and let you know.

[KRM]

phillyreading

Have you tried adding some weight to the truck assembly on the last car?

Lee

 

Added weight did the trick. Now having problems with coupler coming un coupled. This set is junk. TKS, Lionel!

At least they are not coming off the track all over the place.. May order up post-war wheels and axles and do them all and be done with it.