3462 Milk Car works with 1033 transformer, wont work with CW80.

[trains4fun]

I have a 3462 (New 3-47) Milk car.  It works great with a 1033 transformer, but wont work with a CW80 transformer.   It just hums with the CW80 or has very weak action.   CW80 green light flashes. 

What has been done.

Everything moves freely on the milk car.   It can throw the Milk cans very well if the Can magnet doesn't stick  to the platform.  Original cans. 

Pickups are clean and wires are directly soldered to the pickup rivets.  

Pickup spring arms are in place on top of the pickup providing good contact with the rail.   

The coil couplers worked with both transformers. 

Fastrack with a new DPDT switch for the activating track.   Works great on on barrel car and log car.

Is this a problem mixing these era of components?

Can I phase the 1033 and CW80 together?  Even though they are so many years apart?  To run the accessory track from the 1033.   

 

 

[trains4fun]

The only solution I have found is to run the train from the CW-80 and run the accessories from the 1033.  

 

[rtraincollector]

There are items that the CW-80 does not play with nicely and this may be one for some reason. 

[Firelock76]

I'm not enough of an electrical expert to explain the "whys and wherefores," but I've been told the phasing, cycling, and sine wave of the CW-80 transformer is different from the old Lionel transformers, quite different, hence rtraincollectors observation that "There are items that the CW-80 does not play with nicely..."

Oddly enough, the same hobby shop owner told me that the new MTH transformers usually perform quite well with older Lionel accessories, the MTH electricals are closer to the older units than the new Lionel ones.

From experience I have to say all the engines I've got, MTH, Lionel (both current production and post-war), K-Line, Williams, and RMT all run perfectly with the MTH Z-1000 transformers I use.  I can't speak from experience with post-war accessories as I don't have any, I'm just not into 'em.

[cwburfle]

What are the power ratings for a CW-80?
I suspect they simply do not have enough capacity for a milk car.

[KRM]

I agree with RT. There have been many post on the subject of things that do and don't work with the CW80.

 And there are guys here that can explaine it if you know what they are talking about. So it is not uncommon to see a post like this. I will say this though, my 3482 milk car runs just fine on the loop I have running off the CW80 with a 6019 track section, there is plenty of power for it. So I am not sure why your 3462 has issues. maybe something from the build dates of 1947 and 1954??? 

 

[Michael6268]

Have you check the voltage on the accessory post of the CW 80? I have a BW Transformer very similar in looks to the CW. The Accessory posts are supposed to give off 14 volts. In reality is about 8 volts in my case.  Also, with the CW you can adjust the accessory voltage. It may just need to be turned up!  Look on YouTube for a video how to do it. Basically you hold down to three buttons and adjust the accessory voltage with the lever.

[KRM]

I run my milk car off track voltage with the train parked and in netural, but if you are using accessory voltage it may be something else.

 Check here to set the accessory voltage. My guess is you will need to turn it up.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/media/servicedocuments/71-4198-251.pdf

 

 

[Penny Trains]

I have my milk platform on an insulated siding and I run it using an American Flyer 4B transformer.  I slipped fahnestock clips into the bottom of the short rail sections under the bumper to provide the juice.  This also allows me to remove the entire milk car operation when I change the layout from Christmas to the summer version.

[8ntruck]

The flashing green light on the CW80 is an indicator that it is being overloaded - too much current is being drawn. 

Somewhere, I read that the CW80 reduces its output to a safe level when there is an overload situation.

Have you tried just running the milk car and nothing else? 

I have a passenger train that I can run all the cars lighted and the locomotive, but when I add the smoke units, the green light flashes and everything pretty much shuts down.  If I shut the lights off in the passenger cars, I am able to run with the smoke units.

Good luck, and merry Christmas.

 

[phillyreading]

The CW-80 has a different sign wave output and might confuse the older Lionel operating cars. Try using a post war transformer with your post war operating car. 

I am not an electrical engineer but what I do know about electrical work I would never phase the CW-80 with a post war transformer as you might see fireworks! FYI; the CW-80 don't work good with most MTH engines.

Lee Fritz

[trains4fun]

The CW 80 adjusted to maximum voltage on auxilliary output still would not power the milk car to work consistently with everything else off.  Could be a surge load or similar problem.   Tied into the 1033 it works fine.

The overload when running trains is a reality.  No Auxilliarys attached, running a 736 Berkshire, with permanent smoke (no smoke switch when it was built),  a couple of lighted cars and a rotating spot light car cause the whistle to "overload" the CW 80 when applied at a throttle more than 75%.

Testing the whistle without the engine running works great a 100% throttle.  I love the volume of the old whistles, even though they take more power than the new, weaker ones. 

It doesn't take long to overpower a single transformer.   Always add up the power usage.  

[rtraincollector]

CW80 have never been consider a great Transformer. They where designed to handle a simple train set with modern engines and whistle/horn You start trying to do things with it like your milk car, a postwar engine with a postwar whistle and your looking for problems. The newer engines as a whole take less power to run as they are the DC can motors. 

[KRM]

I don't have issues like this with my CW-80. I like the feature that is starts out the engine slow, helps the grand-son keep things on the table. Like I said my post war milk car runs fine. I also am running lights, control tower, two crossing gates and trains all at the same time. I wonder if you have the newer CW-80 or one of those original ones that were wired backwards?

[rtraincollector]

There was one that seems like there was a recall on it. or something. there some that didn't work out of the box ( yes Kevin the first ones the older ones) I forget how to tell it was something in the serial number or stock number if I remember right

[KRM]

Think I found it RT on another thread, The new correct ones have a G in front od the S/N

"Another way that SEEMS to work is to look on the bottom of the device and locate a date of manufacture of the form G0906 or 0903. I have been told that the ones with the alpha-prefix are the revised ones,"

 I know mine has the G in front of the number.

Lots more here.

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/94282.aspx?page=1

 

[lionelsoni]

Remember that most voltmeters will not read the CW-80's voltage correctly.  The error is about 4 volts in the middle of the scale:

Meter           RMS 
  0             0
  0.5           1.6
  1             2.7
  1.5           3.7
  2             4.6
  2.5           5.4
  3             6.1
  3.5           6.9
  4             7.5
  4.5           8.2
  5             8.8
  5.5           9.5
  6            10
  6.5          10.6
  7            11.2
  7.5          11.7
  8            12.2
  8.5          12.7
  9            13.2
  9.5          13.7
 10            14.1
 10.5          14.6
 11            15
 11.5          15.4
 12            15.8
 12.5          16.2
 13            16.6
 13.5          16.9
 14            17.3
 14.5          17.6
 15            17.9
 15.5          18.2
 16            18.5
 16.5          18.8
 17            19
 17.5          19.3
 18            19.5
 18.5          19.7
 19            19.8
 19.5          19.9
 20            20

You also need to have a small load (like a single incandescent lamp) to get an accurate reading.