Hi All,
I've been an HO modeler on and off for 20+ years. In the past 6, I've started to really get into superdetailing, kitbashing, and scratchbuilding. While I like the size of HO, I'm curious about switching to O, specifically 2 rail.
I received my late grandfathers Lionel collection, and the size is very intriguing for detailing. I do like realism, so I was wondering about 2-rail, specifically hand-laid track, as opposed to 3-rail.
If you'll indulge me, I'm curious about the logistics of switching scales from those of you who have done it. I'm aware of the size difference and the needed space for the two different scales.
1) What did you do with your HO stuff? I have pieces I've spent a lot of time on, and came out well, but they aren't super sentimental.
2) I use styrene a lot for kitbashing/scratchbuilding. Where do I get mat'l for car siding, brick walls, etc...? How about using bulk material from Home Depot/Lowes/etc...?
3) I struggle with the electronics portion of the hobby. Does that become easier in larger scales?
4) I live in New England, are there any good LHS with 2-rail so I can go browse and see whats out there in person? I'd rather not order something via ebay or other to find out I don't like it.
Right now I live in a small apartment, so I just build and collect models. I haven't bought any O stuff yet, nor have I sold my HO. I'm just curious and am looking for input. I may have more questions later.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Mike
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
Bundy74 Hi All, I've been an HO modeler on and off for 20+ years. In the past 6, I've started to really get into superdetailing, kitbashing, and scratchbuilding. While I like the size of HO, I'm curious about switching to O, specifically 2 rail. I received my late grandfathers Lionel collection, and the size is very intriguing for detailing. I do like realism, so I was wondering about 2-rail, specifically hand-laid track, as opposed to 3-rail. If you'll indulge me, I'm curious about the logistics of switching scales from those of you who have done it. I'm aware of the size difference and the needed space for the two different scales. 1) What did you do with your HO stuff? I have pieces I've spent a lot of time on, and came out well, but they aren't super sentimental. 2) I use styrene a lot for kitbashing/scratchbuilding. Where do I get mat'l for car siding, brick walls, etc...? How about using bulk material from Home Depot/Lowes/etc...? 3) I struggle with the electronics portion of the hobby. Does that become easier in larger scales? 4) I live in New England, are there any good LHS with 2-rail so I can go browse and see whats out there in person? I'd rather not order something via ebay or other to find out I don't like it. Right now I live in a small apartment, so I just build and collect models. I haven't bought any O stuff yet, nor have I sold my HO. I'm just curious and am looking for input. I may have more questions later. Thanks in advance for any help! Mike
I'm talking 3 rail here as two rail I have no experince and there is a big difference from what I understand.
First off welcome to the forum
Lionel is not 2 rail O so if your going to use your grandfathers set it's going to be 3 rail. Now O does take more room but you can get more loops on a 4' x 8' board than you can with HO. with that said the engine and cars are about twice the size of HO. Local hobby shops depends what you consider local but up in the north east you have some of the best O gauge hobby shops ( now for 2 rail I'm not so sure but three rail yes. )
Electronics for 2 rail I'm not sure 3 rail yes it's a lot easier and you can do stuff like uncouple from the engine any where on the layout with out any special track ( just need a modern engine with TMCC or Legacy in it. )
By the way converting your Lionel to 2 rail is not a easy task either. The engines I'm not sure it can be done, the cars you can but then you need to buy new trucks for them all as the rails are different.
You can buy track with the centered rail blackened so it's not that noticable. After a while you really don't even pay attention to the 3rd rail.
Hope I'm some help. I believe Atlas sells both 2 rail track and trains in O also so going to there site may be a help to you if you want to further your intrest into 2 rail O.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
Electrictronics for 2 rail would be the same as HO. 3 rail is much simpler. MTH sells kits to convert their engines to 2 rail. In most cases 2 rail train stock will cost a tad more than 3 rail. Most hobby shops won't even have any. If permitted to tell you this check out P & D Hobby shop in Fraser Mi. he sells 2 rail O scale all over the planet.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
One possibility would be to go back to the era before the war when scale modeling was splitting from toy trains: The scale modelers used 3-rail Lionel equipment, some of which, like the NYC Hudsons, was built fully to 1/48 scale, but with outside third rails, which were more common then in prototype railroads. Even steam-locomotive models had outside-third-rail shoes; and there were no problems with insulating axles or switching rails in turning loops.
As with center-third-rail operation, track circuits to operate signals, crossing gates, and so on, are easy to implement. It is also possible to operate electric locomotives directly from catenary. (Lionel locomotives, like the GG1s, have generally had their pantographs insulated from the body; and the pantographs also come with solder lugs for wiring them up.)
When it comes to layout space, the sharpest curve radii usually used with O trains are 12.5 inches (O27) and 14.1 inches (O), compared to 15 inches for HO. (Of course, curves can be as gentle as you want.) You may already know that traditional track is described by the diameter, not the radius, and to the outside of the ties, not to the center rail.
A useful trick, especially in O gauge, is the spiral curve, which starts and ends with a long radius, but uses a short radius in the middle of the turn. These take up little more space, but give the impression of a gentler curve throughout.
Bob Nelson
The detail threshold increases substantially for O which can be a big plus. But in O just the same as HO that detail comes at a cost. Diecast shells (locomotives weighing 5 pounds or better are not uncommon) are a norm in O which give the locomotives substantial tractive effort. That effort translates into allowing you to have full interiors in passenger cars, diecast car frames and trucks and often an ability to climb substantial grades. But the cost is just what you would expect. The best pulling, most detailed, most powerful locomotives can cost $1,400 or more. The 2016 Lionel Signature catalog has a 2-6-6-6 Allegheny for $2199.99. Granted, it's an impressive machine at 32 inches long that requires O72 (36" radius) curves minimum but well beyond the budget of many. (But she sure is gorgeous! )
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
There's one BIG advantage that O gauge has ove HO, and I'm surprised it hasn't come up yet.
When you start getting older and the eyesight starts to not be what it was, (or in my case never was!) and the hands get shaky, those big trains are a lot easier to handle than the little ones!
Yeah! But 5 pounds keeps getting heavier every year too!
Nah, give me enough Ben-Gay or Tylenol and I can handle anything!
And if it's after five PM, maybe some "Virginia Gentleman" or "Wild Turkey."
Oh, there's certainly a lot more variety in what's available in HO. When I started getting into trains again after my N gauger brother-in-law "Big B" awakened the sleeping giant, and Lady Firestorm gave the giant a push by asking for a train under the Christmas tree I looked long and hard at HO.
However, it was an old Lionel set that wound up under the tree. Sorry, but HO just doesn't have the thundering shake-the-house-to-the-foundation majesty O gauge does. There was no going back, although I did try N gauge for a while, probably due to the fascination of "How'd they get all that machinery in a package that small?"
I was started on HO but my father gave me a super O set in dec of 1963 and there was no going back since then.
I do have a couple of n scale sets but there in there boxes and have been since I got them. There from Austria I think. ( ROCO )
I forgot to mention that when I was a kid I had Lionels while my friends had HO sets. Those HO trains left me cold, especially the way they kept derailing on a regular basis.
In all fairness they were probably cheap HO sets, but the unreliablility of the same was an instant turn-off that I've never really gotten over.
I have worked a bit with both O gauge and H.O. trains. The track diameter for H.O. starts at a higher(15 inch radius, or 30 inches) number then for O gauge. A cicrle of Lionel's 027 track(27 inch curves) can fit insdie an H.O. 15 inch radius set-up. So space wise there is not that much savings in my opinion.
As for cost of products; H.O. verses O gauge, this is where you can save money most of the time as H.O. is usually a few dollars less then O gauge for most offerings. Also with H.O. I have seen more buildings available in that size then O gauge, especially with Plasticville buildings.
Lee F.
Long time HO, now 027.
"O" Pros: Size "O" Cons: Size
"O" Electronics are easier
HO stuff:
Hold on to everything until you are comfortable with the larger stuff.
Then
Donate, sell (internet-garage sale) or contact a Train Club in your area.
(Usually, LHS knows a club nearby)
It is a big move. If you decide, start with small purchases.
This Forum has a lot of great guys and gals with a lot of experience. Don't be shy. Ask any specific questions that you may have. They will be glad to assist.
All the best.
Welcome Mike. Back in 2000, I switched from N to O and have been very pleased ever since.
1) I sold some of it at a loss to a local hobby store, and sold / gave the rest to other hobbyists. I didn't have the space to hang onto it, and I felt I had thought this transition through...I found N scale too small for me, and I had kids who loved all the light/ sounds effects of O gauge trains. If you're unsure and you have the space in your apartment, keep your stuff. And experiment with O to see if you like it. O is more expensive new but there's tons of beautiful much-more-inexpensive used stuff out there.2) I still use styrene, cardstock, etc for kitbashing. As Penny said, the details matter in this scale. 3) I thought wiring a layout was easier in 3 rail O. Certainly reverse loops are easier. I am electrically-challenged still but folks on this forum have been very helpful. Frankly, I still run just a wire from the controller to the track and that's it. If you stick with 2 rail, I imagine it would be more like HO. Command Control in N scale was easier - as different vendors were all using the same standards. But it was hard to work with everything in the smaller scale. Command Control in O is more proprietary...4) Somewhere on this website, there is a cool hobby store finder.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
The other thing about O gauge is the command control systems don't work with each other. You must have TMCC or Legacy for TMCC engines. You must have DCS for MTH's PS-2 and PS-3 engines. Also for controlling Williams & K-Line operating cars; they don't work with command control unless you(the owner) have it installed in the operating car, so you need another remote control for either K-Line or Williams to use with their operating cars.
FYI; the newer Williams by Bachmann remote is supposed to work with: K-Line, Williams(before Bachmann) and Williams by Bachmann operating cars. I have not tested this(the WBB remote) to be 100% sure if it works.
I have been around O gauge trains for about 50 years, so I am quite found of O gauge.
Lee Fritz
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