Included in a recent purchase was the tinplate locomotive in the attached photos. Can someone identify the shell for me. Based on its size, I believe it might be an American Flyer.
Thank you, swede
What you have is a Lionel 1681E, 2-4-0 locomotive, made in 1934, which was modelled after The Lionel-Ives 1661E made in 1933. The motor is the same style as used in the later Lionel 258 locos, but the MAJOR difference is the wheels on the 1681E. The wheels on the 1681E (if the intent to restore to original condition) is to have a Lionel Jr. nameplate motor, with 8 spoke wheels, NOT 12 spoke wheels. The Lionel JR. motor (nameplate on bottom) was made after Lionel acquired Ives in 1929, and they are only found from 1932-1936, and not beyond that date. In 1937, Lionel renamed the nameplate to Lionel 027, and all of them use 12 spoke wheels, with the counterweight. The Lionel Jr. motors are not very easily found, but they are out there, if you search long enough. The tender associated with the 1681/1681E is the 1661T tender, (4 wheel tender in black with red side insert painted, and Lionel Lines in the red area. I own three of these, two 1681 in Black body, red frame, and one all red body and frame. Got any questions, just ask.
I have two in my collection. One has copper accents and the other has nickle accents.
The set has cars labled for Ives RR Lines as does the tender.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Northwoods, Your loco should have a "Lionel-Ives" tag on the bottom of the 1661E, and not strictly "Lionel". The 1681 was based on the 1661 which was the combination of Lionel & Ives for Lionel's introduction into the cheaper line used on the newly mad 027 track.
Northwoods and teledoc, thank you both very much for the information and photos. I see that a motor recently sold on ebay that would have worked. Now that I know what it is, I'll keep my eyes open for parts.
swede
The motor from a Prewar 258 is the same style frame, except for the wheels, that will fit in the 1681. As mentioned before, if the intent is original motor, it needs the 8 spoke wheels, that are attached by peening over the stud, and not with a hex head screw. The hex head screw didn't come into play until 1937, for that type of motor. You can find either a standard E unit, or a Manual reverse switch, on some versions. The motors are simple to get running.
If you look at Nationwide's 1661, you should notice that his wheels are 10 spoke, which were from Ives production.
teledoc, thank you for the additional information. I found the boiler front and front pilot truck yesterday. Did not find a motor. Have made a copy of this entire post to put with the shell and will begin to look for appropriate parts to reassemble the locomotive.
rrswede, I know you are a regular forum user here, and this is the first forum I joined when I got back into Lionel after 50 years. I would recommend you check another forum that you can learn a whole lot more about model trains. It is far easier to post photos into threads that you start, and the group of guys in the "0" gauge side are more than willing to answer questions. There are multiple sections covered, from all gauges, to Tinplate, For Sale, Tech stuff, etc.. If you get an opportunity, check out www.modeltrainforum.com, and just check things out.
I find this forum so far behind the times, and actually hate the new upgrade, that eliminated a lot of features that I used to enjoy. I still check here, but no where near as often as the other forum. There is a wealth of knowledge in the "Tinplate" sectiom. especially with restorations.
dont forget the obvious one
tinpatacis, I will forget the obvious one. Too many egos to puff up there, and too overbearing with their rules. I do go there, and I do add to posts occasionally, but I WOULD NOT recommend it. A lot of "Pets" of the moderators, to suit me.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month