I felt that, since AF has threads for some of their harder to find/less sought products, one should be held for Lionel production from bout 68-76. Anyone else agree?
Certainly, why ever not? The discussions and learning should never stop.
As an old friend of mine once said, "It's been a wasted day if you don't learn something new!"
Not a bad thing to say. Once I get home, I'll probably have something of minor significance to say. In the meantime, anyone feeling like kicking this off the ground?
I'll kick it off by asking a question I've always wondered about and could never find a source for an answer. Does anybody know exactly when the transition took place? Has anybody seen any paperwork on the subject? I'm curious because everyone always says "1969". Anyhoo, seems like a good place to start.
I should also add I have 2 MPC DC locos: the red "James Gang" set Santa Fe General and a 4-4-2 atlantic in Chessie System blue, red and yellow. Both are good pullers though the general is a bit underpowered.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Good evening all,
Ah, a thread to warm my heart. According to most accepted research 1970 was the first year of MPC, and the end was 1985 or 1986 or 1987 depending on how you look at it. Technically 1985 was the last year of MPC with Kenner-Parker running the show in 1986 and Kughn taking over in 1987, but there was some carryover from the MPC era that lasted well into the Kughn era (see the 2-4-0 ACL set). DC engines are another topic I like to discuss with 1973 being the first year and 1991 being the last. I do not have all the DC engines, but I do have several. The James Gang is one, and the New Englander (2-6-4) is another. The biggest handicap with them is no neutral. I will make more postings if there is interest.
Keep on training,
Mike C. from Indiana
Well, there a the cannonball express that I started with that was made in 1986, too. It was catalogues to the end of DC production.
I'll kick it off by asking a question I've always wondered about and could never find a source for an answer. Does anybody know exactly when the transition took place?
The transition and the first ten years of the Modern Era are covered in the book:"Lionel: A Collectors Guide and History, Volume IV, 1970-1980" by Tom McComas and James Tuohy.
It is not a price guide. This book can generally be had for $10 to $20 in nice shape. There are several on Ebay right now.
This book was written in 1980, while the information was fairly fresh.Its really a shame that this series has not been continued with a new volume every ten years or so, I am certain that interesting informatuion is being lost every year.
Since the thread's rollin' I've got to ask a question, and maybe someone's got the answer. Just WHY did Lionel put out DC powered products? Cheaper that way? I can't think of any other reason, I mean why mess with success when the AC powered units had such a good success record?
I've never run into any DC Lionels, but I'm not on the hunt for them at any rate.
I think it was because can motors are only a few bucks, as opposed to almost $100 in modern currency for the tradition motor. And this was without the reverse!
Honestly, though, some of them were pretty cute.
Keeping production costs down, I might have guessed. Not always the best policy, though.
A few years back I went to a train show in Virginia where a dealer was selling a lot of small gondolas from that period. Although they were all plastic without markings of any kind, I thought they'd look cool all coupled together in my annual Christmas tree innermost loop. Sure enough, they added a unique, very toyful look to the Crayola set with it's short switcher. I loaded them with Christmas trinkets and candy. Every year I usually have a few sets going around the tree that consist of HO, O, and Large Scale. I usually try to use only short length cars on the innermost loops and longer length cars on the outermost tracks. Although cheap, those gondolas have a certain charm to them. It's been awhile since I ran them, but I think they were yellow, green, red, and blue. Come to think of it, I think I'd also bought either one or two manual dump cars that were about the same length. They were all plastic also, but each had what looked to me like a crib that could be manually swung to empty its contents. I filled those with candy too! Since Christmas is coming soon, I just may dig those trains out again for a similar display this year.
Oh yeah, I have the Canonball Express set too. I only used it one Christmas, since I had hooked up it's DC power pack to use its DC engine. I'm the kind of guy that likes to switch out the engines and rolling stock from time to time, so I didn't like the fact I didn't have any other DC engines to swap it with. I think I read somewhere later that some engines can run using either AC or DC power. Does anyone here know if that's true?
If I was to guess, I'd say the thinking at MPC on DC was 2 fold.
1. Remove the E-Unit and you've got both a less expensive engine and one that's easier to service. Instead of fixing things, just pop out that cheap DC motor and pop in a new one (and you've lowered your labor costs by eliminating a lot of service center jobs in the process ).
2. You can now sell AC locos with "added features" like electronic reverse at a higher price. A lot of locos got made in that era using the old postwar molds that were created for the 2-6-2 and 2-6-4 class of engines (pw 1666, 2018, 2037, 2029 to name a few) as 4-4-2's. Add an air whistle tender and maybe extra side rods and you've upgraded a mid to low end postwar loco into a high end model.
My Chessie atlantic, #8008 with the maraca tender, was made from one of those molds. Not a bad atlantic but it would have been better if it was a 2-6-4 like the originals. All I know is it was a lot less expensive than the Chessie berk and looks great at the head of the Steam Special baby madison cars I was after.
Since I have an Aristo-craft G-scale transformer at my disposal I wouldn't mind buying more DC locos/sets. A few years back I got tired of having half a dozen brain-dead MTH proto 1 and 2 locos sitting around collecting dust and gave them a complete lobotomy! Now I run them on DC with the flip of an old porcelain knife switch which switches track power between the Aristo and my venerable old Lionel type R. So DC's welcome on my tiny pikes.
The problem I have is knowing what's AC and what's DC. Often Ebay sellers don't know. I thought it had something to do with the "8000" numbering system but I don't really know if that's true.
What i find is that if it has a single drive rod, like the Marx 490 did, it's probably DC.
All traditional Lionel (and other brand) locomotives that run on AC should also run on DC without modification. The reversing will still be by e-unit, not by polarity; and whistles will blow continuously if not shut off. There may be some modern locomotives that are exceptions, depending on what exotic electronics are inside.
Early toy trains were often powered by batteries (wired to the track, not in the locomotives) in households that lacked electric service, or by DC reducers in households that had DC service, the model 107 for 110 volts and the 170 for 220 volts.
Bob Nelson
Lionel's emphasis on DC only disappeared when they developed a cheap electronice E-unit. That eliminated most of the price differential between the AC powered units. It also eliminated the mechanical E-unit "buzz" as well. The numbering system for the AC and DC engines was all over the map so the number alone tells you nothing. Greenburg had a rolling stock and motive power book that covered 1970 to 1991 and included almost all of the DC engines.
There may be some modern locomotives that are exceptions, depending on what exotic electronics are inside.
There were some modern era Lionel locomotive with electronics that carried a warning not to try operating them on DC. Sorry, but I don't know which ones.
Phrankernstign, do you still have yours?
If you're referring to the set, then yes. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a hoarder. I've collected a lot of stuff, but I've rarely sold anything. Years ago I sold just a few Justice League of America comics from the sixties, and I didn't like the feeling of having holes in my collection that had once been filled. Afterwards I never sold anything else except for DVDs and Blu-ray discs---and all of those were doubles.
I have used the rolling stock from that set from time to time, but not the engine. I don't want to use the DC transformer/power pack (or whatever it's called) again. I want to be able to change locomotives when the mood strikes me.
Nice. I have been trying to hunt an example of the engine down for years. Regret getting rid of it.
thesidingThere was some turnover in 1970 a diesel switcher and a few cars and accessories utilizing Post war parts...
Some early 8010 switchers had 634 cabs.
There was a lot of raiding the parts bins at Hillside to put together accessories.
Rob
Those MPC switchers made up with 634 cabs have extra trim added. They have a bell, radio antenna "wheel" and front marker lights.
I have only seen a few of them.
How does one post pictures on this chat board?
daves92camarowhat no pictures hahaha
cwburfleHow does one post pictures on this chat board?
There we go. First picture.
Here are the two cars Glen Uhl ordered from Lionel/MPC in 1970
...and here's the PC boxcars that were offered early in the MPC era
edited to match thread topic.
Seems MPC sure made a fair bit of PC equip... I should dig out my end-of-postwar 6315 and 6057, add them to the pics. Maybe later.
tinplatacisSeems MPC sure made a fair bit of PC equip....
When I was looking through my Greenberg and Kalmbach books, I noticed that too. I figured the reason was because the paint schemes appeared to be very simple. Most just needed the white graphics to be added to the green plastic bodies. (The two in the pics above with a third color added were some of the few exceptions.)
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