Can a Lionel DC locomotive be converted to run on AC? Is it just a matter of switching out motors?
Thanks!
No motor change required.
From LIONEL:
These parts are available through any Lionel Authorized Service Center. To locate one near you, see our dealer locator or call 1-800-4Lionel. The parts are also available directly from the factory customer service department.
Part Number and Description Quantity Needed
Over the years Lionel has produced locomotives that were labeled as DC (direct current) only.
These locomotives were equipped with a DC "can" motor that had to be operated by a DC transformer, as an AC (alternating current) transformer would cause permanent damage to the motor.
The DC set-up was fine if you were satisfied with operating your locomotive with direct current. But if you wanted to build a small layout and expand upon the set-up by adding switches and accessories, in many cases, direct current just wouldn't fit the bill. A locomotive can be modified in two different ways, one way is to install a bridge rectifier (found in most electronic supply stores) to the motor in the locomotive, but this limits you to only being able to move the locomotive in one direction only, forward, of course. This would be ideal if you just had the set on display and weren't looking for much play value.
The other way to modify the locomotive is to have an electronic reversing unit installed. With this unit installed, your locomotive has three different operating modes; forward, neutral and reverse. Any time you use a directional control on a transformer or interrupt power to your layout, the reversing unit will cycle into the next mode. The sequence of the modes are; forward-neutral-reverse-neutral-forward.
In supplement numbers twenty-one and thirty-two of the Lionel Parts Lists and Exploded Diagrams (available directly from the Lionel Consumer Services Department or through Lionel Authorized Service Centers) you will find a wiring diagram and parts breakdown for the basic steam locomotive used today. The wiring diagram is located in supplement twenty-one, section three, page five. The parts breakdown is shown in supplement thirty-two, section three, pages five and six.
The wiring diagram will show you where to put the six wires from the reversing unit, two of the wires are optional, the blue and the white wires. These wires can be soldered to an on/off switch (optional) that will enable you to lock the reversing unit into one of it's positions, example forward. If you do not want this option, the blue and white wires can be cut off of the circuit board.
The wiring diagram also shows a smoke unit, just disregard the wiring information of this unit. The remaining wires are black, red, brown and gray. First, unsolder the wires attached to the two terminals on the motor. The black wire from the reversing unit needs to be soldered to one of the motor's terminals (doesn't matter which one) and the red wire needs to be soldered to the other motor terminal. Use a wire nut to combine the gray wire with the wire that is coming from the locomotive's center rail pick up. The brown wire needs to be combined, using a wire nut, with the wire used to ground the locomotive. Test the locomotive on a piece of test track before completely re-assembling the locomotive. If all is fine, complete your assembly and you are now ready to roll! The locomotive will now operate on either AC or DC, and you will never have to worry about compatibility again! This conversion works for either steam or diesel locomotives.
Rob
I did it with just a bridge rectifier from information I got from Bob Nelson. Or am I missing something here???
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Or if you want it to be able to go forward and backwards by transformer control contack Boxcarbill www.mttponline.com/# and he will help you do it with command controll items probably about the cost of buying all the above items listed which I think is missing something as unless the reversing unit will convert AC to DC but any way I went to lionel web site and the reversing unit came up unfound.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
rtraincollector... the above items listed which I think is missing something as unless the reversing unit will convert AC to DC ...
The reverse unit does, in fact, have 4 diodes arranged in a full wave bridge configuration. They are the first components on the circuit board and are connected to track power. The entire circuit, including obviously the motor(s), runs on DC converted from the AC track power. There are a few alternate reverse units available for this application - the 107-100 for example is a suitable replacement for the above mentioned 103-100. They are about $15.
A simple full wave bridge rectifier is certainly usable for one direction operation, or can be used in conjunction with a standard 3 position electromechanical E-unit for full F-N-R operation.
For F-R only operation, you can use two full wave bridge rectifiers and a standard 2 postion electromechanical E-unit.
Kev, might you be missing the title of this thread?
..........Wayne..........
Wayne, I think the thread topic is about converting a DC locomotive to run on AC, which of course can involve converting AC track voltage to DC motor voltage. In one sense it's DC to AC, in another sense AC to DC. But I think Kev's understanding is correct.
Bob Nelson
Not looking for a dog fight here, Just I have made DC units run with AC power as I said. Using the information I got from Bob, an easy placement of a small part. Works for me. Do what you like.
Yes it is, low end, common later model, looks to be all plastic.
Thank you Bob.
I apologize Kev, my mind was in reverse there.
Now that I am turned around, of course a Lionel DC locomotive can be converted to run on AC with nothing more than a diode or (better) full wave rectifier.
I have a NYC, 4-6-0, #1242, that runs with a full wave rectifier replacing the electronic board. It runs in forward only, but that suits me fine.
Rob's post describes how to add a reversing board for a fully functional engine. (Nicely done response Rob.)
Not a problem Wayne, I get a case of oldheimer's every now and then to.
tinplatacisIf it is one of the low end 2-4-0 locos, you can just swap the mech with one from a postwar Scout engine.
Unfortunately you must swap out the whole motor unit because the post war scout has the AC motor as best that I know of. The DC motor versions need to have a form of rectifeid AC to DC in order to work. The best way to do that is to use a 50 volt 6 amp bridge rectifier(Bob Nelson gave me advice a few years ago about doing this with a different engine but is was DC).
Well I pulled the trigger & got the loco & here it is. While waiting for it to arrive I went to my local Radio Shack for the bridge rectifier only to find they're shutting down their stores. So now I have to go online.
Would this rectifier be ok to use with a capacitor for the lighted cars? I'm thinking it would be easier to buy in some bulk but they seem kinda big to use just for a light.
A bridge rectifier big enough for a locomotive would work fine for lights. It would just be large and maybe more expensive.
I use a type of bridge that is about the size of an aspirin and is rated at 1.4 or 1.5 amperes. Whatever size you use, you can connect the ~ terminals to the car frame and the pickup(s), connect the + and - terminals to the lamp(s), and connect an electrolytic capacitor in parallel with the lamps to reduce flickering, being careful to match its polarity to that of the bridge rectifier.
However, I don't like to connect multiple car pickups together, since there are situations where this can cause trouble by connecting center rails of adjacent blocks together as the car passes over the block gap. For this case, I make what is identical to a 3-phase bridge rectifier. It has 3 input terminals instead of 2. I connect one input terminal to the car frame and the others to the pickups. You can make one of these by adding 2 diodes to a bridge. Or just connect two bridges together by their + and - terminals. Then you'll have a 4-phase bridge; so just leave one of the 4 ~ inputs unconnected (unless your car has 3 trucks with pickups!).
lionelsoni A bridge rectifier big enough for a locomotive would work fine for lights. It would just be large and maybe more expensive. I use a type of bridge that is about the size of an aspirin and is rated at 1.4 or 1.5 amperes. Whatever size you use, you can connect the ~ terminals to the car frame and the pickup(s), connect the + and - terminals to the lamp(s), and connect an electrolytic capacitor in parallel with the lamps to reduce flickering, being careful to match its polarity to that of the bridge rectifier. However, I don't like to connect multiple car pickups together, since there are situations where this can cause trouble by connecting center rails of adjacent blocks together as the car passes over the block gap. For this case, I make what is identical to a 3-phase bridge rectifier. It has 3 input terminals instead of 2. I connect one input terminal to the car frame and the others to the pickups. You can make one of these by adding 2 diodes to a bridge. Or just connect two bridges together by their + and - terminals. Then you'll have a 4-phase bridge; so just leave one of the 4 ~ inputs unconnected (unless your car has 3 trucks with pickups!).
lol! If I ever come across a car with 3 trucks with pickups I could offer it on ebay as the rarest of the rare! Maybe even retire off the bidding. ;)
After more late nights searches then I can count & stumbling through all the electronic jargon that I know nothing about, I found this. http://www.circuitspecialists.com/tb605.html?otaid=gpl&gclid=CIeR6vLd5cYCFQ6RHwodIvEKyw
I just want to be sure this is what I need for the loco.
Also after even more late night searches through this forum trying to find circuit diagrams for the lighted cars I found this post;
http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/239752.aspx
with this statement;
"I rewired the cars with 3-phase bridge rectifiers, so that either truck can power both lights without connecting the pickups together, and added capacitors to further reduce flicker."
This statement clarified for me your quoted post & how I want to set up the 14 or so cars I have.
That rectifier will work just fine. But you probably can get away with a slightly lower current rating with that locomotive. You may find it easier to squeeze in a 4-ampere bridge, like the Vishay KBL005. Just search on "mouser kbl005" to see it.
For anyone needing small rectifiers for lights, I recommend something like the Vishay W005G ("mouser w005g").
balidaslol! If I ever come across a car with 3 trucks with pickups I could offer it on ebay as the rarest of the rare! Maybe even retire off the bidding. ;)
Then there's Lincoln's funeral car. You'd need a 5-phase rectifier for it:
balidasWhile waiting for it to arrive I went to my local Radio Shack for the bridge rectifier only to find they're shutting down their stores. So now I have to go online.
Four closed in Tucson, but seven are still open. Fifteen are still open in Ft. Lauderdale area (in a 25 mile circle around downtown.)
Reference: http://comingsoon.radioshack.com/store-locator
Hmmm...I've heard of the Lincoln Funeral car but never took note of it's trucks.
That Lionel model must be modern. It's not listed on the postwar list.
webenda balidas While waiting for it to arrive I went to my local Radio Shack for the bridge rectifier only to find they're shutting down their stores. So now I have to go online. Four closed in Tucson, but seven are still open. Fifteen are still open in Ft. Lauderdale area (in a 25 mile circle around downtown.) Reference: http://comingsoon.radioshack.com/store-locator
balidas While waiting for it to arrive I went to my local Radio Shack for the bridge rectifier only to find they're shutting down their stores. So now I have to go online.
Ok. I'll look them up & see how far away they are. Since I'm caring for my dad who has Alzheimers I try not to travel too far. The one that closed was like 2 blocks from my house.
Thanx!
Ok so I want to be sure I got this right. On the rectifier, do I connect just one or both ~ posts to the roller pickups, then the + to the + on the motor & the - to the - motor post/ frame. Thanx.
No. One ~ terminal goes to the locomotive frame (or to whatever part of the locomotive is connected to the outside rails through the wheels). The other ~ terminal goes to both pickups. The + goes to one motor terminal, and the - goes to the other motor terminal. (Neither motor terminal should connect to the locomotive frame nor to anything else.) If the locomotive runs in the wrong direction, just swap the wires to the motor terminals.
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