Lionel 681-100 motor ball bearings?

[teledoc]

     I have a 681 motor that I purchased from eBay, to put the correct motor into the 681 loco I have, which had a 671/2020 motor in it.  The motor ran slower than what should be, after installing it into the frame.  I pulled the motor, and noticed front to back play on the armature shaft.  After closer inspection, I noticed there were no ball bearings that could be seen.  I disassembled the complete motor to find that it was apparently taken apart at one time and re-assembled, without any ball bearings, and there were 3 washers on the commutator end of the shaft, and only 1 on the geared end just behind the c clip.  Big question is how many ball bearings are needed in front and rear, so that I can order them to fix my problem?

Jerry

[lionelsoni]

Trainz.com is selling a set of 5 (681-121) in a cage for $1.50.  http://www.trainz.com/p-244714-lionel-681-121-motor-ball-bearing-set.aspx

[cwburfle]

With that ball bearing race missing, there should be a lot of back and forth play in that armature, perhaps as much as 1/4 inch or more. Each end of the armature should have a "sandwich" of a thin washer, ball bearing race, washer. So you need two of the ball bearing races, and four of the washers. These are not hardware store washers, the part number is 671M-23. See this diagram: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc736p4.pdf

[teledoc]

     Thanks to both of you to, steering me to what I need.  I dreaded the thought of having to deal with individual bearings, and how many to put into each end.  The improvement of making the 681-121 bearing assembly takes all the stress out of replacing a bunch of individual bearings.    I will be ordering a few sets, as I have two 2020's, one 681, one 736, which all use the same setup.  While on the subject of the motor, the later versions of angled motors appear to all be the same, excluding the brushplates; ie the motor housing itself (casting) appears to be identical.  Therefore, it seems logical that you could make a 681-100 motor into a 671m-1 motor just by switching the brushplates, and changing the brushes.  I only mention it as one of my 2020's has the 681-100 motor installed, and I would want to make it look correct.  Does it make sense on my conclusion.

[ADCX Rob]

[teledoc]

Thanks Rob for the updated diagram.  I will be ordering a few sets of the bearing races for three S2 turbines and a 736 Berk that I have.

[cwburfle]

Therefore, it seems logical that you could make a 681-100 motor into a 671m-1 motor just by switching the brushplates, and changing the brushes

The service manual shows the 671M-1 motor with different bushings, and loose ball bearings.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc671p4.pdf

I know I've serviced motors with loose ball bearings Off the top of my head, I couldn't sat whether all worm drive 671 and 2020 locos have them.