Odd derailing issue with 2400 series passenger car

[RAVL]

Gentleman,

I have an odd issue with my dad's 2400 series passenger cars (the green with yellow pinstripe variety).  The end car, I believe it is called the observation car, will derail very readily.  Specifically, the last truck of wheels in the train seems to be the issue.   These hadn't been run for many years and I was readying them for Christmas when I noticed the issue.  At first, I thought I had it solved because the truck was too tight -- would barely rotate and was clearly too tight -- my experience, and consistent with the other cars, is there needs to be a little ability for the truck to "wobble" or move a bit.  Not a lot.  So I disassembled the car, readjusted a few things and now that last truck seems to still have the same issue -- it derails on switches, particularly the turn aspect of the switch. The only other thing I can think of is the power pick up is new -- the other one was worn out -- and perhaps the spring tension on the pick up is a bit much?  Not sure.  It doesn't really feel different than the others although they are 65+ years old and the new one is new so not sure there either.  Finally, I notice a small amount of "wobble" when I rotate the wheels by hand, but it does not seem any different than the other three cars -- none of them are perfect after so many years but those don't derail.  Final possibly relevant hint is that if I run the train in reverse, and run this car first, it doesn't derail. 

I could call Jeff at Train Tender and probably get a whole new truck, but if I can I would rather keep the original truck with the car.  Before doing so, any thoughts or obvious things I am missing?  Thank you for reading and any advice you can provide.  Best.

[rtraincollector]

Just a question is your pick-up roller facing forward or aft if forward it might be catching something as it comes to the switch try turning the truck 180 degrees and see if it does any better

[dsmith]

It's possible that the pickup roller is the problem.  To see if it is, take a piece of masking tape and tape the pickup roller so that it remains fully retracted.  If  the car now doesn't derail, then that is the problem.  It's possible that the roller mechanism has too much side to side slop, falls off the center rail and jams.

[servoguy]

Did you oil the bolster with motor oil to reduce the friction and make the truck swivel more easily?  Also, did you oil the wheels so they spin easily?  Did you oil the pickup roller?  Did you check the gauge of the wheels?  I have fixed many cars that wanted to climb the frog and derail by bending the sides of the truck to eliminate the end play of the axles.  If the axles have end play, the gauge of the wheels may be too great and this will cause the truck to derail.  Also, where on the switch does the derail occur?

[RAVL]

Thank you, and the others.  These are all really good suggestions.  I will spend some time this afternoon experimenting with this and the other things and report back.  I appreciate the help.

[Buckeye Riveter]

RAVL

 

Specifically, the last truck of wheels in the train seems to be the issue.  

I have seen this before and it is often the switch's lack of guiding the wheels properly.  Gently pull the whole set of passenger cars through the switch (no locomotive) , watching the wheels of all the cars.  Watch to see where the last truck derails. 

Also the wire from the pickup roller needs to be loose enough to let the truck rotate properly.  

[cwburfle]

My guess: you have a bent axle.

[RAVL]

OK, based on the suggestions here I went back to the work bench.  Thank you all again for the useful suggestions.  Here's what I did:

Axles are not as true as the newer Williams and Lionel 2400 series cars I have, but they aren't that bad for the age -- I've seen a lot worse.  Slight wobble.  To the extent I could do so without making them worse, I used a pliers to straighten them and true up / tighten the trucks. 

Also, the new center rail plunger on the last truck was sticking a bit when you depressed at an angle that represents the angle it would take when the train was moving forward.  I removed the truck and very slightly adjusted, with long nose pliers, the center pin between the spring so that there would be no binding when the pick-up wheel / plunger depressed in the forward direction of travel.

Finally, I removed the rear truck and checked the play between the truck pin (that goes up through the car body) and the circlip, and adjusted it so that it was secure but that the truck could move consistent with how the others felt.

Went back to the layout, ran it, and all seems well.  There was one derailment taking the straight portion of an O42 K-Line switch that I have, but this is a spot where other trains have derailed as well  there from time to time.  I haven't been able to figure that out, but there is something up with that switch.  That is a project for a different day. 

[cwburfle]

Axles are not as true as the newer Williams and Lionel 2400 series cars I have, but they aren't that bad for the age -- I've seen a lot worse. Slight wobble. To the extent I could do so without making them worse, I used a pliers to straighten them and true up / tighten the trucks.

Axles are about 30 cents each, I don't bother trying to straighten them.

[RAVL]

Fair point.  Just didn't have any.

[cwburfle]

I guess most folks don't keep axles on hand :). The next time you are at a train show, or place a parts order, you might want to pick up a few. Bent axles causing derailing on switches is fairly common. The last time I ran into the problem, it was on a caboose that would only derail when backing through switches. Jeff Kane sells them for 18 cents each if you buy in lots of twenty. Some of the other things I keep on hand are: screws Brushes E-unit contacts and drums bulbs smoke unit rebuild parts

[RAVL]

I am taking notes for my order.  What screws do you keep on hand?  Not sure what type / size you meant there.  As to bulbs, I picked up a bunch at York but I always feel as if I am guessing as to what car needs what bulbs -- the base isn't hard but getting the right brightness, etc.  Thanks.

[TrainLarry]

Here is a list of bulbs for Postwar trains.

Larry

[RAVL]

Thank you!

[cwburfle]

What sort of screws? I built up my assortment over years. I think the screws you might want to keep on hand is going to be based on what sort of trains you have on hand, and your buying habits. A good way to build up an assortment would be to purchase some extras anytime you needed some. One screw I seem to use a lot are the screws that are used to mount E-units. They fit in a lot of places. I also go through quite a few of the various screws that are used to mount shells (cabs).