Standard catalog of Lionel Trains by David Doyle

[mpzpw3]

I recently purchased this book from Amazon. This is a wonderful reference book for postwar Lionel fans!!! I hope Mr. Doyle writes one for MPC and Modern era's , also. This book leaves my older postwar reference books in the dust. If you get a chance to buy one, I doubt you will be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your very nice remarks about my book[:I]. Considering the amount of work that went into it, it is really good to hear that folks are enjoying it.

Sincerely,
David Doyle

[lionelsoni]

On the strength of mpzpw3's recommendation, I just bought this book at a train show for $30. I wondered how the seller could make a profit selling a new book at the list price. I guessed he must have bought a lot at a discount. I now realize that he just wanted to get rid of it.

I have read only a little of it but found so many errors in so few pages that I would not trust it to tell me anything I did not already know. I want my money back.

[Anonymous]

Dear Mr. Nelson,
Could you please be specific as to what "errors" you have found? By no means am I saying that I am infallable; to date, I have found eight typos....only one of which is truly meaningful....(a 0 was omitted from a value....but fotunately that error is so obvious when compare with the bracketing prices no one could possibly be mislead.) However, without your citing specifics, the other list members really have no way of knowing if what you believe to be an error is in fact a shortcoming of your knowledge, rather than mine.

As there is nothing presented in this book that you do not already know, perhaps you would be good enough to share some of your wisdom with the rest of us?

By the way, the function of "list price" is so that sellers CAN make a profit....do you normally pay more than list price for the items you purchase?

Regards,
David Doyle

[mpzpw3]

I'm a little awe-struck. For one, I never really thought anyone cared about my recommendations. Two, Perhaps I am not knowledgeable enough about postwar Lionel trains. I found the book interesting and accurate. After receiving the book, I went to the items I owned, or wanted to own, and found the information and pictures very accurate. I felt (and still feel) that the items were well described, especially when comparing them to other guides that I own.
I enjoy postwar Lionel, and have collected quite a "library" on the subject. After reading lionelsoni's report, I went through my other books, and so far have no conflicting information. The only thing I found, was that , in my opinion, Mr. Doyle's book was better put together, more informative, and more entertaining to read. Being interested in postwar Lionel (along with MPC Lionel, and modern Lionel), I would be very interested in seeing what information is wrong in this book. I am no expert in postwar Lionel, but I simply haven't discovered any misleading info. in this book.
Lastly, as far a pricing goes (this book does serve as a price guide, along with being an information guide), the book offers a guide. Pricing is determined by how much the buyer wants the item. In my own experiences, I have never payed book (or price-guide) value for anything. Until someone can find the time to research the effects of e-bay, buy and sell boards, and loss of the original postwar buyers, no price guide is 100% accurate. I believe that rarity is also debatable. a lot of rare items 20 years ago, are not so rare now, with the advent of computers. Rarity and price guides are just that, guides. You can either follow them, or pay what you want to pay for an item when you can.
I will defend my original post, and offer Mr. Doyle the credit he deserves for writing the book, until some information is given to dispute this.

[Anonymous]

A friend of mine is setting up a website to present following eratta list. Myself, I am not very web-savy, and I don't know when John plans to get this up. Since this thread has presented itself in the meantime, I thought I would post the content here, in the interest of candor.
Here is the error list:

Errors in “The Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains, 1945-1969”

Unfortunately it seems that no matter how many times a work of this size is read, and reread, nor matter how many people are involved in the proofing process, a few mistakes always seem to creep in. Naturally, this become painfully obvious as soon as the printed copy reaches the author’s hands.

Unfortunately, this is the case with this book as well. In an effort to minimize any confusion, I am posting this list of errata. My sincerest apologies for any confusion these errors may have caused.

Sincerely,
David Doyle

The one very general statement that can be made is that all of the black and white catalog pages reproduced are from Advance Catalogs, not consumer catalogs. Beyond that, here is a page-by-page listing of mistakes that I have caught. If any others noted, please contact me directly and they will be added to this website.

Page 6, second column, should read:

Parts with Character shared much knowledge and experience with me, as well as allowing needed photos to be taken.

My old friend, Jeff Kane of www.ttender.com sent needed component photos of many individual items from his extensive inventory of postwar Lionel repair parts.

Page 13, lower right photo caption should read:

The Scout trucks originally were equipped with the “Scout coupler” seen here. The coupler was discontinued in 1951 because it was not compatible with any of Lionel’s standard couplers, but the trucks continued to be use on inexpensive items through 1953. (error italicized)

On the same page, the lower left photo, both indicator arrows should be extended 1/8 inch.

Page 74

The photo at the top of the page is of a 2023 (Type IV), unfortunately in the listing the photo of the 2023 (Type V) is duplicated in the Type IV position.

Page 287

Upper right photo. This is entirely the wrong photo. However a 70 Yard Light can be seen mounted on the 397 coal loader (Type I) shown on the lower right of page 314.

Page 318, 456 coal ramp.

Unfortunately, the same photo appears in both headings. The coal ramp shown is the Type I.

Page 329, 974 scenery set.

A zero is missing from the Like New value!. This mistake is obvious, as LN would not be worth less than the excellent price!

If anyone notices any other mistakes, please contact me by direct email, and it will be added to the site, if they are verifiable. (For instance, if I am told Lionel produced a pink GGI for the Girls Train, in addition to the 2037-500, that claim will need to be substantiated.) Please note, that differences in opinion on values are not errors, but simply differences in opinion. If you have strong feelings on values, please contact me and you will be added to the list of people consulted when the second edition is assembled.

[Anonymous]

David:
Don’t sweat the typos and errors. You’ll always find a bunch know-it-all critics who delight in pointing them out. Heck, even the Wall Street Journal and NY Times have typos. Thanks for the hard work you put into publishing your book.
BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[lionelsoni]

I'm sure Mr. Doyle is very proud of his book and has not noticed anything seriously wrong with it. I paid $30 for it and I feel that I thereby acquired the right to say what I did notice wrong with it. I hope that this will be a help to anyone else considering buying it.

In his pique, Mr. Doyle has misrepresented my criticism. I did not claim that "there is nothing presented in this book that [I] do not already know". What I said was that I "have found so many errors...that I would not trust it to tell me anything I did not already know."

I had made a list of errata for my posting above. As I often do, I managed to erase it before posting and did not have time to re-create it. I will now.

I began by reading the introductory section on trucks and was struck by the repeated emphasis on sintering, even to the point of referring to the "sinter section" of the axle on page 12. The truck sideframes are in fact zinc, not sintered iron as he says in numerous places. A caption on page 14 seems to acknowledge this by contradicting the text. Anyone with a magnet can confirm that the sideframes are not iron. The wheels are made of sintered iron.

All the early knuckle pins that I have seen are painted gloss black, not "black-oxide coated".

In the same section is this garbled description of the magnetic coupler: "A larger spring held the knuckle in the closed position, and it is that spring that the electromagnet had to overcome." I know how the coupler works; but this is not it.

I skipped ahead to the description of the 773 on page 37. Doyle says, "Hexagonal-based flagstaffs were on the pilot beam..." Geenberg's guide makes the same statement.; and McComas and Tuohy show what is clearly a hexagon base in a picture labeled 1950. However, Lionel's repair manual for the 1950 locomotive shows a circular base, 726-104; and my own 1964 model is circular.

Doyle says, "A horizontal three-position E-unit was included, avoiding the need for an unsightly E-unit slot in the boiler." Horizontal e-units were used in the 671 and 726, but not in the 773, which had a vertical e-unit. Laying the e-unit down would not in any case have solved the problem. This was done by using the 773-300 e-unit, with no switch, and by using a plug on the backhead instead.

I moved on to the transformer section, to see that the type Z had been derated from 250 to 150 watts. The lucky reader who didn't know better could have inferred that there was a typo by finding the reference in the ZW listing to the 250-watt Z.

A book called grandly "The Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains" should do better than this; and the author should "sweat the typos and errors". My point is that he seems to have gotten a lot of facts and details wrong. Perhaps everything else that I did not read and everthing that I read that I did not already know is perfectly correct. But I doubt it.

(I think that the fellow that I got it from would have bought more that the one copy if he thought there was a profit in it. It's "infallible".)

[AlanRail]

Bob

Whether or not you purchased the book you have a right to your opinion about the content; Heck Amazon encourages purchasers to write reviews.

Amazon publishes them without the author's imput right on the sale page. Mr. Dolye is kind enough to seek out errors they he may correct them with an "errata" page. is great.

As I recall erratta sheets are not uncommon. Both Greenburg and McComas did the same thing with their price books.

Alan

[Anonymous]

Mr Nelson,
I response to your commentary, I will add this:

Long ago I was told by a knowledgeable individual that the truck side frames were sintered iron. Honestly, I never bothered to check this, obviously I should have, and in fact will when I return home. The "sintered" axle is a result of having to work around computers, and professional proofreaders who "correct" misspellings. "Sintered iron" was "corrected" to "centered iron", and then had to be changed back to "Sintered iron. Somewhere in this shuffle this one didn't got confused. In other words, a typo.

I have replaced hundreds of knuckle rivets, all the black ones I had were black oxide coated and predate MPC. From what you report, they have also been produced painted black, do you know when the painted black ones were made?

Perhaps I should have been more clear in the explanation of the magnetic coupler. "A large spring was used to hold the locking plate in the locked position, and it was that spring that the track-mounted electromagnet had to overcome" may have sounded better, BUT what I wrote was read by no less than 6 experienced collectors (as was the rest of the book), and it seemed clear and accurate to them.

The flagstaffs on my 1950 773 are hexagonal, and I got it in 1978 from its orginal owner. My 1964 was bought at a meet, hence MIGHT have been altered, but it also has hex-based flagstaffs. Again, yours is different, and this is a legitmate matter that can be addressed by removing the word "hexagonal" from future printings.

The mistatement about the Hudson E-unit is 100% my fault......as my trains are (or were, prior to divorce) "shelf queens", I haven't opened either of mine up since about 1980....and my memory has failed.

Yep, you have found a typo with respect to the Z rating....another one missed by myself, and 6 other proofreaders, I suppose this is an indication that we are human. This correction will be added to the eratta sheet.

Should there by any mistakes in the book, typo or otherwise? No. Are there? Yes....and I believe this is also the case with almost every other printed work. We strive for perfection, yet fall short.

I write for a living, and because of this come into contact with a LOT of other writers, and we all suffer the same fate. We euphamistically call it the "30-second rule." No matter how many times something is proofread, nor by how many people, no matter how much time you are allowed for corrections, thirty seconds after the finished product is in your hands you will find a mistake.

I have yet to find anyone who has published anything beyond brief articles who has not experienced this.

Regards,
David Doyle

[lionelsoni]

All the knuckle pins that I have that are not silver-colored are painted black. One car, an ATSF 6454, has some paint chipped off the heads, revealing a shiny silver-colored surface. To quote http://www.swdinc.com/black_oxide.html , "The finish will not chip, peel, flake, or rub off: Black Oxide can only be removed by mechanically or chemically removing the finish itself."

But that is beside the point. I'm sure you intended to make an accurate book. My impression is that unfortunately you did not. Of course no book is perfect; but a reference book like yours should be fairly close in order to be useful. I sampled the book until I concluded that the rate of errors was well beyond what would make me depend on it to answer my future questions. The errors that I have mentioned, I found in the part that I did read and were, I think, enough to convince me that the rest of the book would also be error-ridden and that I would be dissatisfied with it also.

[Anonymous]

I just purchased the second edition of David Doyle's book, and I love it.  There are a few minor mistakes, but overall it is great book.  The issue about the knuckle pins has been cleared up.  The only two mistakes I was able to find concerned the 60  trolley and 50 gang car.  In the overview of the 60 trolley, the book states the trolley was introduced in 1960.  The 60 trolley was introduced in 1955.  The only other mistake I could find was with the 50 gang car.  In one photo, a gang car with a center-horn brushplate also has the L-type bumper slide.  A car with the center-horn brushplate should have the U-type bumper slide.  I am in no way blaming David for these mistakes.  I understand that these things can slip past proofreaders.  I would highly recommend David's book to anyone interested in postwar Lionel.