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rubber-stamped vs heat-stamped

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rubber-stamped vs heat-stamped
Posted by gnmodeler on Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:42 PM
How can you tell if a car has been rubber stamped or heat stamped. I have several car that I think are rubber stamped as the frame is metal. I am pricing some of the old trains that I have and have seen this in the Greenberg Guide. Does anyone know what they mean by separate sale box. Is this the original box it came in? Are the value of the car better with the box?
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Posted by TrainLarry on Saturday, July 26, 2014 8:01 PM

Heat stamping is usually done on plastic and castings, such as on steam engine castings. The process leaves a slight indentation in the material, as the heat slightly melts the material.  Rubber stamping is done on all surfaces, and leaves no indentation.

Some items came only in sets, and others came in sets and also were available for sale alone, hence available for separate sale. Also, some items that came in some sets did not come in individual boxes, but if purchased for separate sale, came in a box. Any item that has a box is always worth more, but the condition of the item as well as the box determines the final price. Note also that any price guide is just that: a guide.  The guides are averages taken from prices obtained at auctions, meets, etc. It does not guarantee that you will get the price in the book if you sell your item, as selling prices are considerably lower.

Larry

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Posted by gnmodeler on Monday, July 28, 2014 10:55 AM
is there a way to know if the metal has been rubber stamped? I am looking at one of my units the 6560 crane. It list one with rubber stamping of the 6560 for one value and a different value for what I would guess is heat transfer.. I am trying to value what I have for insurance.
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Posted by rtraincollector on Monday, July 28, 2014 12:02 PM

Hi this kinda intrigues me as in the " standard catalog of LIONEL TRAINS 1945-1969 gives like 9 variations and they all say " injected molded plastic frame " so in this case if heat stamped it would be felt rubbing your fingers across it and rubber would be basically smooth. 

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Posted by TrainLarry on Monday, July 28, 2014 12:30 PM

  Rubber stamping is just like seeing "Payment Received" stamped on a paper invoice. It leaves no physical impression on the paper, and so it is on our trains. Heat stamping is like getting a document notarized and the notary stamps the document with an impression that you can physically see and feel, and so it is again like this on our trains. If it is rubber stamped, the stamping will feel completely smooth. An impression stamp will leave a physical impression that you can see and feel. Rub your finger over the area in question. If it is as smooth as the surrounding area, it is rubber stamped. If you feel an impression, it is heat stamped. Look at it under a magnifying glass if you are still in doubt.

Larry

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Posted by gnmodeler on Monday, July 28, 2014 1:25 PM
Your right it is plastic. Need to get my eyes checked again. This is not heat stamped as there is no raised plastic. It is smooth like a decal but no film. Do you know if there was an other way that Lionel put lettering on cars?
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Posted by gnmodeler on Monday, July 28, 2014 1:27 PM
Thanks Larry it is as smooth as a decal. I did make an error as the frame is plastic. There is no raise plastic on any of the lettering on the frame, the cab was heat stamped.
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Posted by teledoc on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:03 PM

Does your 6560 frame have the Lionel Lines & weight markings to the left of the frame, or just the number alone?  If it only has the number by itself, with no other markings, and has all indications of rubber stamping, then it should be a frame made by MPC, and not a true Lionel frame.  I have every variation of 6560, except the Red Painted Cab version, and they are all HEAT STAMPED.

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Posted by gnmodeler on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:43 PM
Mine is the res cab version with all of the markings. I received this in 1957 in a Sears set with engine, tender, tank car, log car, gondola, crane, box car, and work caboose.
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Posted by teledoc on Monday, July 28, 2014 4:23 PM

If your set is Sears from 1957 it would /should be set# 9642 containing the following:

2037 loco; 6026w tender; 6112 gondola w/canisters; 6014 or 6024 boxcar; 6111 flat w/logs; 6025 Gulf tanker; 6560 Red Crane car; 6119-75 grey work caboose as the components.  Valued at $175 very good - $350 like new, from Greenberg's uncatalogued set book.

The early versions of the 6560 had trucks attached with binding head screws, and either came without any stamping at all, or just the weight info minus the 6560 stamping.  The cabs came in Red/Orange, painted red, or molded red, molded grey, and all having the smoke stack.  Later versions came with 1002-6 truck mounting clips, and followed by rivets, bar end trucks.  Around 1959 they came with AAR trucks.  If the couplers have a tab sticking out, it dates it to 1955 or later. 

The one I have without the number is on a 2460-5 frame, and a later AAR truck version is on a 6560-5 frame.  Flip yours over and see what number frame you have.  Also, does the Lionel Lines on frame feel the same as the number.  The left side should have Lionel Lines over WT-375,000-2-18NH. 

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Posted by gnmodeler on Monday, July 28, 2014 5:30 PM
The Lionel lines and WT-375,000-2-18NH are the same, so I have the one with the number and red cast cab. There is no number on the bottom of the frame. It does have the tab on the side of the coupler. The work caboose is an orange color that has faded on the plastic area but the rest is OK. Considering that this has been used, I took very good care of the trains. There are small chips in the paint of the engine but no broken parts. It still runs like new.
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Posted by teledoc on Monday, July 28, 2014 6:55 PM

Ok, you have a 1955-1958 issued crane car.  With the complete stamping on both ends of the car, it is definitely HEAT STAMPED, but very light stamping, so that it feels smooth.  There are no known versions that were ever rubber stamped from the Postwar era, from 1955 to 1969.  As far as the frame number, it is hard to see, as the number is under one of the truck assemblies, and not in plain sight.  You will most likely find it is 6560-5.

A few years ago, I became fixated on the variations of the 6560 and started to collect them.  There is one for sale on eBay for $250, with a black cab w/smokestack, but in my opinion it was made from a 282 Portal crane cab, affixed to the 6560 frame.  All the books I have mention that a BLACK CABBED 6560 was never documented.

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Posted by teledoc on Monday, July 28, 2014 7:02 PM

Forgot to mention about the work caboose.......Orange is 6119-25; Brown is 6119-50; Grey is 6119-75; Red cab with grey tool compartment is 6119-100.  99% of the work cabooses being sold on eBay are listed as 6119's, and are truly 6119-100 cabooses.  A 6119 is only blackened frame, and red cab with red tool compartment.

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Posted by gnmodeler on Monday, July 28, 2014 9:41 PM
If they made it any smaller I would need a seeing eye dog. It the 6560-5 frame. In the Greenberg book it list a rubber stamped unit. Do you know when these were made? Thank you for all the help with this. Michael
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Posted by Moozuki on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:41 PM

Oops! Wrong post!

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