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early 91 circuit breaker , 2 places to conect wires

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early 91 circuit breaker , 2 places to conect wires
Posted by Graeme Bales on Saturday, May 10, 2014 3:05 PM

If   91 circuit breaker is hooked up to track  with a 1930's  light pole the pole light comes on and the light on the  91 comes on dim no matter if the switch is on or off.  When I put a engine on the track light on pole goes out and engine will not run , light on 91 goes bright no matter if off or on, any ideas .  I just bought the 91  as is  just to see if I could fix it up to run.  Back in the early 1940,s  we were smart enough to just  check to see if the engine or cars were off the tracks..  thanks   Gaeme

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Posted by lionelsoni on Saturday, May 10, 2014 5:46 PM

As with your earlier rheostat problem, the light pole is not enough of a load for the circuit breaker.  The circuit breaker's lamp is intended to show when the circuit breaker has tripped.  It is wired in parallel with the circuit breaker's contact.  When the circuit breaker is reset, the lamp is shorted out.  When it trips, the lamp is in series with the load.  If the load is a train, as Lionel intended, almost all of the transformer voltage appears across the circuit breaker's lamp, which has a much higher resistance than the train.  So the train does nothing and the lamp lights, indicating that the breaker is tripped.  If the load is another lamp, like your light pole, the two lamps are in series and both will glow at less than full brightness. 

When you press the reset button on the circuit breaker, that should close the circuit breaker's contact, turn off the circuit breaker's lamp, and provide full transformer voltage to the track.  Have you tried pushing the rectangular reset button on the top of the circuit breaker?

I don't know wiat you mean by "the switch".

Bob Nelson

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Posted by cwburfle on Saturday, May 10, 2014 7:40 PM

It appears that Gaeme is writing about the prewar #91 circuit breaker.  It does not have a reset button, it has a lever.
The light should go out when you move the lever to the "on" position.
If it does not, either you have it wired wrong, or it is defective.

I think they were made in two versions, one with two terminals, the othe with three.

If your breaker has three terminals, they should be marked "A", "low" and "high".
you need to use the "A" terminal and one of the others.  Lionel suggested trying the "low" terminal first. Use the "high" terminal if the breaker keeps tripping.

The breaker should be wired in series with it's load.

 

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Posted by Graeme Bales on Saturday, May 10, 2014 7:57 PM

I  have a 2065 lionel engine and street light on short track.   There is a on-off switch on side of #91 circuit breaker      With the power on to track,  light on #91 comes on, no power to  engine and street light  no matter if on off switch is up or down.   If you put a screwdriver across  terminals on #91 , its light goes off and engine  starts  up and street light  comes  on.  Hope this helps   thanks  Graeme

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Posted by Graeme Bales on Saturday, May 10, 2014 8:34 PM

There  are 2 terminals on it and it is wired  in series with it's load.. It may well be defective but how can I find out how to fix it?   I  saw a  lionel manual on  ebay   and asked it showed the #91  and they said they did not show the #91 and did not  show anything on transformers.  It  will not be used as a circuit breaker I was just curious to see how it worked and if I can not get it to work will just put it beside the tracks on my layout near a switch.      I have an old Dykes Automotive manual from 1927 is showed you how to  charge a battery with light bulbs in a series  or make a train go. all kinds of stuff to keep me amused.   Thanks for help       Graeme

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Posted by lionelsoni on Saturday, May 10, 2014 10:27 PM

Here is the prewar 91:

Here is the postwar 91:

Does yours resemble one or the other of these?

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Graeme Bales on Sunday, May 11, 2014 4:55 AM

My #91 is like the top picture with 2 terminals on it.   thanks  Graeme    I maybe away for 2 or 3 Days.

Tags: Early #91
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Posted by cwburfle on Sunday, May 11, 2014 5:07 AM

As far as I know, there are no service instructions for your prewar #91 breaker.

As I recall, the mechanism is fairly simple. The plate with the terminals is held in place with a few screws. If you are very comfortable working with electricity, you can look inside to see what's what. You may have a loose wire or bad contacts inside.

 

 

 

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Posted by Graeme Bales on Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:23 PM

Mine is like the one on the top  .  When I first got it, the plunger was stuck in  solenoid , took the plunger out and cleaned it along with the inside  of the solenoid                                                                                                                                                                       , I was wondering if I had made a mistake by cleaning  the solenoid but I think not.  the 2 screws on 91  that hold the back  on ,  the bottom one  on the right grounds the 91 and make the light come on. now matter if the on off switch is on or off.    when I  short the 2 wires  on back of  the  91  it will  run a engine and light on 91 goes out like it should..  If I cann't get it to work like it should  I will just put it near a switch and just use it as an  accessory , because I was not going to use it as it was intended in the early 1930,s   just wanted to see if I could fix it.                Thanks Graeme

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Posted by Graeme Bales on Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:55 PM

There is nothing loose have had the thing apart 20 or30 times, just curious to make the 91 work.  In the 40's we were just happy to have the train go arround track . I now have many engines and trains but no later that  the 50's, no nothing about all this high teck stuff., they have today  Thanks for your help and interest    Graeme     I now even less about computers .

Tags: old #91

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