When I was a baby my father bought the new for 1957 Lionel four-car freight set (#725 on the box I still have) with the orange Union Pacific ALCO 202 engine (sold only that year). It was the beginning of our Lionel trains, and he added to them for several years. We set them up each Christmas on a 4-x8 layout. I still run them today with a seasonal layout that is greatly expanded. In all descriptions of the 202 (including Greenberg's), it always is listed with a 2 position e-unit, but my 202 has a 3-position unit. I know it has never been modified.
Has anyone else come across 202s with 3 position e-units? Is it possible this was an early set in 1957 with that type e-unit? The engine still runs great.
What year was the set purchased? Does the loco have 1 or 2 magnetic axles? If the set was purchased in 1958 or after, either the motor truck or the shell may have been swapped before purchase. One way to know if it is factory original is to be able to attest to the fact that the set box was still sealed with factory tape when first opened.
Larry
I am pretty sure it was purchased in 1957. The operating directions are dated Sep-57. It has 1 axle magnetraction, as it should, and a light, all consistent with the 202. Only the e-unit doesn't match.
The truck would need to be different also, and have the dual wound field, which is why I mentioned that either the truck or shell may have been swapped. The 2 position e-unit would not work with the normal single wound field. The set may have been purchased new after 1957 and still have instructions dated 1957.
If you can attest to the facts that the set box was factory sealed and unopened at the time of purchase, and the loco not modified after the box was opened, then you may have an extremely rare variation. But only if you can attest to the facts.....
Its true that a 2 position e-unit cannot reverse a motor (single field) designed for a three position e-unit.
However, a three position e-unit can reverse a motor (dual field) designed for a two position e-unit. A three position e-unit could have been installed as either an upgrade or a repair.
According to the Lionel service manual either motor type might have originally come with one or two magnetic axles. The service manual is generally accurate, but there are errors here and there.
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/ho/d200a.pdf
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/ho/d200b.pdf
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc200p8.pdf
Thanks, cwburfle. It would be interesting to see a picture of this truck to see what motor was used in the loco.
Can you post pictures of the motor with the cab removed?
Rob
If this is a case of an e-unit replacement, there are three ways it could have been done:
o Using only one of the two field windings. This is the method that Lionel described. Their method unnecessarily disconnected the other winding entirely, even though it suffices to disconnect only one end.
o Using both windings in parallel. This would require disconnecting the windings and then reconnecting them in anti-parallel. There is no particular advantage to doing this.
o Using both windings in series. This is as easy as the first method and has the result of a slower-running motor with more torque. Many toy trains run unrealistically fast and are difficult to run slowly. If you think slower operation is more realistic, you will probably like this method. If your locomotive was in fact converted using either of the other methods, you might consider redoing it this way.
Bob Nelson
I took some pictures of the engine:
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/mbd1325/library/
It looks like a 2-postion to 3-position e-unit conversion to me. Your engine looks to be in nice shape. If you wanted it to be original, it could be converted back as long as the field wires are all there.If it were mine, I'd be happy with the 3-position upgrade.
It is a conversion, but well done. The E-unit is 10 years or more older than the rest of the diesel and matches the one used in the single motor GG1.
Thanks for the information. I am happy that it has always had the 3-position e-unit and won't be changing it. My father bought the trains we set up together in the 1960s and 70s between 1957-1959 from what I can tell (all of the rolling stock, direction sheets, and accessories are from those years only). All of the trains were purchased in downtown Philadelphia, where he worked (for the Reading Railroad). My other engine from these original trains is a 2349 Northern Pacific diesel that I have the box and directions for. My father never worked on or modified anything we had from that time period, so it is a mystery to me when and how the e-unit was changed in the 202. In my memory it was always like it is now and as I indicated previously, I have the set box, cars, and transformer that went with it.
Your 2349 NP Geep is very desirable, especially with the original box and paperwork.
Enjoy your trains!
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