Inconsistencies in Fiber Pin Placement on Lionel Turnouts?

[O-GaugeOscar]

I'm building a Lionel O scale layout with Lionel 022, 3010/3011 and 2080/2081 (O-42) turnouts.  Unfortunately, the Lionel instructions for the various turnouts seem to suggest inconsistent fiber pin placement.  Is this correct or am I missing something? For example, the O-42 turnout instructions indicate fiber pins on the inner curved and straight portions of the diverging tracks (rails closest to each other).  In contrast, the 022 turnout instructions indicate the same fiber pin placement on the straight track, but on the other outside rail on the curved track.  The insulating pins on the 3010/3011 instructions seem to be consistent with the O-42 instructions.  All instructions strongly suggest leaving fiber pins in place.  (BTW, I read the 2/18/2007 CTT forum thread on fiber pins, but those posts didn't seem to answer my question.)  I believe something is wrong on my layout since (despite following the various instructions) one of the O-42 turnouts "chatters" when powered.  Also, the curved or divergent track from the same O-42 turnout leads to the straight track from a 3010 turnout (i.e. turnouts "facing" each other).

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

[Dave632]

 In my experience it is the inner control rails, ( the short curved and straight portion of the switch in the center of the track), that need the fiber pins. The chattering is caused by the control section of the track being grounded.

[TrainLarry]

 The placement of the fiber pins is correct as per the instructions. The design of the newer switches is different than the 022 switches and that is why the placement of the insulating pins is different. The insulating pins are needed for proper operation of the switches, and for the non-derailing function to work.

Larry

[Curmudgeon]

If you look, you will see the older switches have gaps in the rails (mine do). That's where the fibre pins go (or wooden matchsticks).

Newer ones, no gap, use the isolated short rails.

TOC

[BigAl 956]

Those O42 switches are actually from K-Line rebranded for Lionel after they took them over. That's why the inconsistencies. The instructions are what you go by. O22 switches have the pins on the right hand side of both the strait and diverging section. The K-line switch its on the inside. Look here for more info...http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/5796702080250.pdf

[Boyd]

Check for wrong wiring inside of remote 0-42 switches made by Lionel. I have bought a bunch of them new and used and found the switch would go wild right underneath an engine. All the wires inside of them are white and yet there are positive and negative wires in them. I think I disabled all of my Lionel remote 0-42 switches. I much prefer the K-line 0-42 switches,, I have over a dozen of them.

[O-GaugeOscar]

Thanks to all for the suggestions.  However, three of the eight turnouts are still not working properly ("chattering" or won't stay in new position when switch is thrown).  I will try to post a CAD diagram (SCARM software) of my layout, including numbered turnouts (and Lionel model) and fiber pin placement. 

[O-GaugeOscar]

view.sfly?fid=2cc8046a2ef5831d6276141d224b0f78

In the diagram, the small black squares and rectangles represent the fiber pins. 

Turnouts 1 and 7 "chatter" while 6 will not stay in the new position when switch is thrown.  The other turnouts seem to be working as expected.   I'm using a Lionel "R" transformer (100 watts) with one throttle powering the inner double loop (starting and ending near turnouts 4 and 5) and a siding (turnout 2).  The second throttle powers the outer loop, passing siding (defined by turnouts 1 and 7), and sidings controlled by turnouts 3, 6 and 8.  I use the fixed voltage option on my turnouts.

Any ideas on what's causing the issues on turnouts 1,6,and 7?  Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Thanks again,

[O-GaugeOscar]

I see the URL link did not post correctly on my previous post (only takes reader to Shutter Fly sign-on page).  Does anyone have an EASY way to post images (photos or diagrams which aren't necessarily jpeg) on the forum?  I've been using Shutter Fly to host the photos, but maybe someone knows of a better image hosting service.  I also tried to upload a CAD layout drawing through Microsoft Word, but was unsuccessful.

I'll post the layout drawing when I get the technical issues fixed.

Thanks.

[servoguy]

Remove the turnout from the layout and test them by themselves.  If they work OK, you have a fiber pin in the wrong place.  If they don't work the problem is internal to the switch.

[O-GaugeOscar]

Good idea, Servoguy! 

Actually, there were two problems with the O-42 turnouts:  First, I didn't realize (or forgot) there is a LH and a RH controller.  (Any idea why?  I don't recall the 022 turnout controllers being wired that way.)  I mixed up two controllers causing the turnout switch "chatter".  Also, the third O-42 turnout had some mechanical issues which I think are now fixed (but I'll watch going forward).  BTW, does anyone know the purpose of the single larger machine screw on the bottom of an O-42 turnout?

Anyway, thanks again to all who replied with possible solutions to the wiring/turnout problem!  After some serious "train time" today, progress is being made again on the new layout.

I appreciate everyone's assistance.