YORK

[Banks]

I spent most of the day Friday at York wandering the halls

I found four kinds of dealers at YORK From least common to most common

A) Those who thought they were selling gold

B) Those who were there to sell and priced accordingly

C) Those who had their prices sat where one would expect to find them selling on ebay and accepted reasonable offers.

D) Those who haven’t realized you can’t go by the price guides.

I heard many complaints of not selling. Usually from type A and D.

Anybody else?

[lion88roar]

Banks - It is like that at most shows. As Fife and I like to say "They'll adjust their prices once they get sick of hauling their stuff to all the shows". Problem is many 'sellers' think they should get more than they paid for an item, even if they overpaid.

Back when I was looking for a 671 I went to over 20 shows before I found one reasonably priced. When I found one I like the seller didn't have a price on it so I asked and I was floored by his asking price - I didn't even flinch and paid him cash on the spot. It is by far and away the best looking 671 (without box) I have seen in a long time, and it runs great! My point is, if you are looking for something specific then you need to determine how much that item is worth to you and in what condition... then look and keep looking till you find it. I don't begrudge a seller - if I ask what the price is and they are far over what I am willing to pay I don't even counter - I just walk. Once I had a guy stop me and say 'aren't you going to at least counter offer?' "Unfortunately your asking price and my willing to pay price are too far off that I don't think a mutually agreeable price is attainable". It is a part of our hobby I guess.

[RedfireS197]

Banks,

               York sounds like the Greenberg show in Monroeville regarding sellers.

Brent,

            What variation of the 671 did you get?  I've been looking for a decent  '47 production 671 for about seven years myself.  I serviced one for a customer, and I regret not making an offer.

[AF53]

Banks - I found that yes, a lot of sellers think they have gold, and some do. I just wish gold was cheaper. And some had displays that made me think I was at a museum.

I was lucky enough to get 3 items I was looking for at reasonable prices, all were negotiated. That doesn't mean I got all that I wanted, as some were asking way too much. Overall I'd have to say I saw more American Flyer and Marx items than last fall, and I did ok. 

I also agree with Jim that you can get sellers at Greenberg shows that are high priced. You get them all over.

These things still don't stop me from going to shows and I will be back at York.

[TRAINCAT]

At York last October I was walking by a table and looked at the ridiculous prices and he said he could not even get people to talk to him. At the prices he was asking it was a wonder people didn't stop just to laugh at him. That was my big beef too at York. Way over priced items. Some were willing to bargain. I tried getting a guy or two to come down to a reasonable, fair price, but it was no use.  I agree Greenberg shows are generally too high priced too.  I only buy post war trains and a lot of the sellers still think they are worth what they were back in the 80's when prices soared. Not anymore. The new stuff and reproductions are making old trains worth much less.

Roger

[fifedog]

I was looking for Lionel Generals, specifically.  I "lost" an 8701 set when I didn't pull the trigger immediately (hey, I was only there 10 minutes...), then proceeded to see similar pieces all over the price range.  Then, when I finally saw what I wanted, I was willing to pay the freight.  And so it goes.

I've learned if you are truly interested in a piece, the "proprietor" will offer a better price.  It's all in your approach.  It helps if you have "arm candy" too.

Can't wait 'til October.

[Bob Keller]

fifedog

It helps if you have "arm candy" too.

You mean a Snickers bar up your sleeve???

[sir james I]

Some sellers came to move some treasures, others come year after year thinking they can still get 1980 prices. Those are the one's that won't budge on their ticket price. You could argue all day, it wouldn't matter. Same with personalities some are  friendly with nods and how are you others act like you are taking up their valuable time.

BUT over all the good guys make going there well worth while.

[fifedog]

Well, BK, in this case it was Brent L, but he wasn't working his charms hard enough, apparently....

Missed ya, btw.

[Bob Keller]

LOL !!

[Nationwidelines]

I missed going to York this spring, but I enjoy going there.  As a collector of prewar American Flyer, I find that I never know what I am going to see there and I generally see something different each time I go.  I also enjoy going there to meet up with friends from across the country, rather than look for a specific item.

As far as the prices go, I don't get bent out of shape by high asking prices.  A seller can ask what they want, I don't have to buy it.  However, I know that I have seen some specific items with the same sellers for at least 5 years now, and the reason they are still carrying those items around is that their prices are too high for what they are offering.  On the other hand, I have seen items with high asking prices sell the first time they are offered, the reason being is that they are of exceptional quality and/or rarity.

 

NWL

[Hudson#685]

I agree with Banks about the sellers at York. My big score was a couple of 6464 boxcars. And what NWL stated about the same sellers with the same over priced specific items that they carry back and forth, I had to laugh. To me York is more than just train shopping. It is meeting up with friends with the same common bond.

John

[cwburfle]

The way people write about York sellers on this and other boards, I guess the sellers at the other shows they attend must have more reasonable prices.
That does not seem to be the case at the open shows that I usually attend.

[lion88roar]

fifedog

Well, BK, in this case it was Brent L, but he wasn't working his charms hard enough, apparently....

Missed ya, btw.

I'll try harder next time... or I'll drag The Princess along since she seems to be incredibly interested in going to every train show I attend!

cwburfle

The way people write about York sellers on this and other boards, I guess the sellers at the other shows they attend must have more reasonable prices. That does not seem to be the case at the open shows that I usually attend.

Not ALL sellers expect platinum prices for copper items. Some do, but you have those at every show.

[Banks]

fifedog

  It helps if you have "arm candy" too.

So that's why I got the best offers while Mrs wasn't resting her feet. I have noticed at the local shows I get better offers if the grandkids are with me.

I've been going to Train shows for over 30 years. I went to York once 20+ years ago. that was the only time until last April.

My main point in this thread was that the spread this York was greater and the deals seemed better and the complaints of low sales and low offers were the greatest I've seen.

fifedog

I "lost" an 8701 set when I didn't pull the trigger immediately

Fife, I've done that several times over the years. See something I'd like at a decent price but pass in hopes of something better and it was gone when I returned.

[fifedog]

Banks - Hey, worked out for the best.  The deal I made last Friday arrives tomorrow. And that wouldn't have happened had I bought the 8701.  I was really hoping to find an 8630, to no avail.  No need now.

Already has me thinking of saving up to get the LCCA Halloween General set.  Maybe if I joined LCCA....

Pretty much, the observations of YORK are pretty much the same at any show....X 10. 

In a primitive way, we are all just satisfying the hunter-gatherer instincts in all of us.

[Joe Hohmann]

I never understood why some people expect York to be "Bargain City". Like most antique/collectible flea markets, many dealers (usually older ones) go for the "social aspects" and to show-off their stuff. If someone wants to pay a premium price, fine. The only place to find out what a item is REALLY worth are eBay completed auctions.

[sir james I]

The true value is what someone is willing to pay. And that's not e-bay,  But for some that's their only local source so some items will pop high. Higher than those of us that have local sources. We have train shows all winter and if those sellers at York want to drag the same stuff there year after year, so be it.

[Curmudgeon]

When I was active in TCA, TTOS, and LOTS, we'd laugh uproariously when we saw someone come into the show to buy with a Greenberg guide tucked under their arm.

They were willing to pay the prices Greenberg dreamed up.

We used to look at the guides and shake our heads. It seemed to us that every year, in order to sell new editions, they somehow computer generated price increases for one section a year.

Those price increases never seemed to have anything to do with reality...with actual sales prices we could ever see.

Always looked like a TCA-driven attempt to increase the value of their old junk.

You are right about the ones who bring the same junk every year to shows with totally unrealistic pricing, and haul it all home again.

Like lighting up a Lucky Strike, seems to be ingrained habit.....take the boxes out of storage, haul them to the show and unpack, at the end repack and haul them back to storage.

Must be a hidden tax break for that somewhere.

BTW, once, many years ago, I needed a 671 chassis for a project. Motor, frame, drivers, rods and e-unit only. No boiler, trucks or tender.

No more than ten bucks.

One local TCA meet, there it was....ten bucks.

It is now under a modified 675 boiler...and it's a L1s Mikado.

Beautiful thing...something Lionel should have done 60 years ago.

[wrmcclellan]

I always find what I am looking for at reasonable prices - you jus have to look.   &.    Look.     Look.   &    Look....

[BobDJ]

Curmudgeon

When I was active in TCA, TTOS, and LOTS, we'd laugh uproariously when we saw someone come into the show to buy with a Greenberg guide tucked under their arm.

They were willing to pay the prices Greenberg dreamed up.

We used to look at the guides and shake our heads. It seemed to us that every year, in order to sell new editions, they somehow computer generated price increases for one section a year.

Those price increases never seemed to have anything to do with reality...with actual sales prices we could ever see.

Always looked like a TCA-driven attempt to increase the value of their old junk.

You are right about the ones who bring the same junk every year to shows with totally unrealistic pricing, and haul it all home again.

Like lighting up a Lucky Strike, seems to be ingrained habit.....take the boxes out of storage, haul them to the show and unpack, at the end repack and haul them back to storage.

Must be a hidden tax break for that somewhere.

BTW, once, many years ago, I needed a 671 chassis for a project. Motor, frame, drivers, rods and e-unit only. No boiler, trucks or tender.

No more than ten bucks.

One local TCA meet, there it was....ten bucks.

It is now under a modified 675 boiler...and it's a L1s Mikado.

Beautiful thing...something Lionel should have done 60 years ago.

I use this guide to see what date an item was manufactured and what the current value is according to the guide. Then I determine what price I will pay for the item which is usually about 50% of the  price in the guide.

[Curmudgeon]

BobDJ

I use this guide to see what date an item was manufactured and what the current value is according to the guide. Then I determine what price I will pay for the item which is usually about 50% of the  price in the guide.

Good way to do it. Newbies don't have that experience.

Me? I just wait for things to fall in my lap.

I certainly don't NEED any more "stuff".

[RAVL]

My experience with York is that unless you are looking for something specific, the dealer halls are where I spend most of my time.  Even if you are looking for something specialized such as an unusual part or a particular train, the advantage of York, and other large train shows, has been diminished by Ebay.  Stated differently, there is little I can find at York that I can't quickly find on Ebay.  So not that it is pointless to go to York -- it's an event onto itself -- but 10 or so years ago I would go because I wanted certain things.  Now I go because I want to go. 

Plus, as others have said, there are many sellers who are there as a hobby and so they don't need to sell.  The people who run businesses, on the other hand, need to move inventory.  Hence, if I am there and in a buying mood I have no need to wast time on what is often over-priced old junk  I'd rather spend time in the dealer halls.  Just my .02.

[RRaddict]

I hear you screaming all the way out here in California and belive me it is no different here and maybe worse as the hobby here is not very popular. When there is one of two shows that come here in Southern California the don't think that they are selling gold more like platinum. I can understand if they want to make a reasonable profit but I think they maybe trying to make up for the other costs of being at the show too. You know booth rental, parking, and gas. I quit going to the shows because thank God I found Arnies trains here in Orange county that has prices so far that no one in America has been able to touch.Whether you are trading or buying from him you always come out a winner it's something that now a days you can't seem to do at the shows. It doesn't matter the gauge, PW, Prewar, MTH, or Lionel his prices can't be beat. Sorry I didn't mean to rant but it is so much less stressful than walking the floor for hours on end.  The point is that all shows no matter where they are these days are all the same. I know that it would be wonderful if you could go to a show and everyone was there just to enjoy the hobby and don't have the mind set of making a profit but unfortunately it isn't.

Kev