Lionel Grey 785 Hudson Runs slowly

[RAVL]

As the title to implies, we have a mid-eighties 785 Hudson that runs slowly.  Took it apart, cleaned the brushes and the contacts at the top of the armature, lubed the armature where indicated, and re-greased the gearbox.  There are no obstructions in the way of the wheels - spinning the "driveshaft" indicates that everything is well lubed and in order.  But, the engine is extremely slow.  The brushes did not appwear worn.  I know some of the Hudsons from this time run slowly but this is too slow and the track is powers by a 180 watt brick so that is not the issue.  Ideas and thoughts appreciated.  Thank you.  

[krapug1]

The Hudson's of the PW era (all 773's) and the first of the modern era re-issues tend to be slow runners based on the gearings of their motors.

The March 2005 issue of CTT has an excellent article on the Post War Hudson's, it includes this line.

"If your going to run your 773 be aware that it is not a fabulous runner. Lionel equipped it with a number 622-100 worm drive motor built with an 18:1 gear shaft-ratio. This gives the 773 a top speed of about 100 scale mph less than can be done by the somewhat smaller steamers and diesels of the time".

The first MPC issues, 783 and 785 have the same basic motor.

What I found with my 783 is that I gave it a long (over 1 hour) break-in run with nothing in tow.

From what I have read the magnetraction used on these 2 engines may also impact their speed.

On the plus side these engines will coast along at a consistent speed (almost like modern speed control), but they should run at an acceptable speed level.

Ken

[RAVL]

Thanks Ken.

Any thoughts on whether there is another Hudson motor that could be swapped in?   

[MRTerry]

Raymond,

Yes, Lionel's big Hudsons are geared to run more slowly than many of its smaller locomotives do, but they're not sluggish if they're adjusted correctly. I wrote an article on this topic for the May 2000 CTT (call 1-800-533-6644 to order, or visit http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-toy-trains-magazines-classc-toy-trains-back-issues.html

The details are in the story, but the keys are getting the worm shaft in proper adjustment, adjusting the coupling between the motor and worm shaft, and making sure the side rods aren't binding. Once you do that, the rest is basically a matter of making sure everything is lubed correctly.

Thanks for reading CTT,

Terry

[RAVL]

Thank you Terry.   I am aware that these engines run more slowly than other ones but it just seems slower than it should be to me.  And the engine doesn't have a lot of run time. 

In any event, I ordered the issue.  I am a little concerned, however, only because nothing is binding and everything appears to be aligned and moves freely.  I will see what the article tells me and I look forward to reading it.

[RAVL]

Thought I would report back if this comes up again for someone else.  In any event, spent more time this evening disassembling, cleaning, de-greasing, re-greasing, and reassembling.  Put it on the track and let it run.  At first it was better than not great.  After about 10 minutes it picked up another notch of speed, very suddenly -- I had to dial back the throttle.  Then another 10 minutes later, it got faster, again all of a sudden requiring me to dial back the throttle.  Now at full throttle it runs as fast as any steam engine I have.  Hooked it up to a long consist and the engine didn't notice.  So the advice here in general, particularly the let it run a while after cleaning and what-not, was very good.  Thanks.

[sir james I]

The gray 785 does not have magnatraction but it is a much better runner than the 783.

[krapug1]

There are some 785's out there that do have magnetraction despite the engine not being listed as having

that feature.

The manual for the 785 does mention some changes that were made to this engine, over the 783, and the 773 for that matter.

Ken

[cwburfle]

Thank you for posting your results.
Its good to know how various efforts to service trains work out.

[RAVL]

I could be wrong in terms of the exclusivity of the characteristic, but the 785 Hudson has the wheels with the nickel rims that are also spoked (instead of being cast to look like spokes).  No magna nor traction tires.  I thought these two distinguishing features of the drive wheels were the reason this engine did not have magnetraction -- at least I recall that conversation between the store clerk and my father when he bought this engine many years ago.  He thought the spoked wheels made it look a little more "interesting" than the others with solid wheels.  Personally, I'd be thrilled with any Hudson that runs well but again this is what jumps out from my memory.  As far as changes between this model and earlier models such as the 783, the PDF parts manual I have references (at the end) changes that were made as compared to earlier models, but I recall those changes being related to the armature in the 785 being improved, and the point being that the 785 armature could be retrofit to the earlier models to see a similar improvement. 

In any event, I am just happy to have a properly running Hudson again.  Frankly, I don't recall it ever running as fast as it has now.  Again, the folks here who stress the importance of getting nuts and bolts maintenance right, followed by a good run in, offer sound advice. 

[sir james I]

Raymond got it right. No way can the 785 have magnatraction with those drivers and rims.