Help identifying prewar American Flyer windup?

[Dave Farquhar]

This weekend I picked up a box full of train stuff. Among the goodies inside was a windup American Flyer engine. It's one of the really tiny 0-4-0s. The key is gone, and it's missing a wheel, but when I wind the engine with a pair of pliers, the wheels turn, so it'll work after I locate a suitable replacement for the missing wheel.

Question is, how do you identify it? I know Flyer made several 0-4-0s that pretty much look alike. This one has no identifying marks whatsoever. I don't know if maybe it had them at one time and they rubbed off, or if it never did.

If it helps, it came with the simple three-sided sheet metal tender and a 515 passenger coach.

It's not the least bit practical for the layout, but it sure looks nice on the shelf.

[mersenne6]

As they say, the devil is in the details.....lets start with a front to back description of the locomotive shell.
1. Headlight - front mounted on the boiler or mounted high on top?
2. Working back from the headlight - in order rivet bands or metal bands and their location, sand dome, steam dome (present or absent), notch in side - if any and which side (for clearance of windup key), cast on piping details and where located (left side, right side,)cab details - open or closed roof hatch, number of windows, cab window shape. Painted highlights - where and what color
3. physical length of the boiler casting (tip of cowcatcher to back of cab).
4. Tender - markings - and color

If you can fill in the blanks I, or someone else, can probably give you an identification.

[Dave Farquhar]

Thanks. Here are the identifying features I can find:

1. Headlight is on the front of the boiler.
2. There are three rivet bands, starting at the very front of the boiler. The other two divide the boiler into thirds. All are equally spaced. There is no sand dome. The steam dome is in front of the cab. There is no notch on the side. There are two pipes, a horizontal one and a vertical one coming down from the steam dome (which almost makes me wonder if the single dome is supposed to be a sand dome...), both of which appear on both sides. No notches.

There's a single long rectangular window on the cab. As far as painted highlights, there's a gold band under the window on the cab, and the bell up top (halfway between the dome and smokestack) is painted gold. There are traces of gold paint on the bottom of the piping but most of that paint appears to have rubbed off. It looks like the headlight may have had some gold paint on it at one time as well as there are traces there too.

Looking at the locomotive from the front, the key is on the left side. (And now I remember that Coleman moved the key to the side opposite of where Hafner had put it.) Also, on the back of the locomotive, on the same side as the key, there's some kind of mechanism. Looks like it might be a lever intended to keep the motor from unwinding? It moves up and down.

3. The casting is almost exactly six inches long.

4. The tender is all black, no markings. Four wheels, open back. Very minimalist design.

Thanks again.

[mersenne6]

From pp. 46 American Flyer Prewar O gauge:

"#4 Locomotive (Type XV cast iron): 1927-31 6" straight boiler with rectangular window and no boiler bands; three rows of boiler rivet decoration (picture shows them to be equally spaced - also shows headlight on boiler front); very small pump beind third rivet column with pipe to dome, second pipe from behind second rivet column to cab; no markings below cab window; brake and key on left side; no rod guides or side rods; eight spoke stamped-steel drivers, 509 Type I tender . Order of features on top of boiler: (no headlight), rivets, stack, rivets, bell, rivets, dome. 1930-1931 has square headlamp on boiler front).

The picture of the locomotive matches your description and the locomotive shown has a plain black tender as you described.

Sorry this took so long, I've been out of town on business.

[Dave Farquhar]

Thanks so much for your help. I don't know diddly about windups but when I saw it, I had to have it. Nice to know something about it. Mine has the round headlight, so it must date from 1927-29. According to O'Brien's Collecting Toy Trains, it's worth about $36 in C5 (in 1999 at least). So I didn't get ripped off, either.