I must lead into this discussion with an apology. I finally dug my Lionel, 027 guage, trains out of a 50+ year of storage! Getting reaquainted with terms, configurations, etc., is challange enough, but I want to make matters worse by going from 0 to 60 in no time at all with my ideas.
I have designed a layout with a grade (using Lionel Trestle) that looked good in the planning, but struggles with functionality. In order to pull more than 4 or 5 cars up the grade, I found that running 2 powered locomotives did the trick, quite nicely! However, with my layout being built from 027 track that's 60+ years old, there are bound to be poor connections. Point being, when I had 2 engines tied to the same train, all was fine until, one engine encountered a lack of current that caused the E-unit to slip to neutral, then subsequently, switch to reverse! Not at all what I was hoping to achieve. My question is "fairly" simple; is it possible for me to rewire my 2 separate locomotives, in a way where I can wire them (using a connecting cable) to work from ONE E-unit (either one), and have the power of the two motors??? I'm sure that over the many years that I've been absent from model railroading, that someone hasn't done this before. Thanks to any, and all!
-Joe
It depends on the model numbers of the engines. What 2 locos do you have?
Rob
Thank you VERY Much! I thought the idea was doable!
Best,
Joe
Thanks for the response Rob:
Currently, I am using an early Santa Fe "623" SW-2 for the test, along with my Virginian 2329(not sure when my Dad bought this, I'm thinking late 50's early 60's) It has a pantagraph, as I've recently viewed a Virginian on Ebay without the pantagraph. As for "actual model numbers", and I'm sure Lionel uses them, the Viginian, I couldn't find anything that resembled a model number, but the Santa Fe has 622-20 on the body casting.
Thank you
This is the answer Bob Nelson shared with me a year ago last summer.
"It is certainly possible. I have done it with my 2023 set. You simply wire the field winding of one locomotive in parallel with the field winding of the other one, and the armature of one locomotive in parallel with the armature of the other one. This is the same arrangement used in two-motor locomotives. At a minimum, this requires three wires between the units, although I would strongly recommend using a fourth wire to connect the frames, which are the returns for the fields, to avoid currents through the couplers, and a fifth wire to connect pickups between the units, for better immunity to dirty track.
Rather than use connectors, I have simply routed the wires over the couplers, fastened with tie-wraps, so that the units are permanently attached.
The result is a real stump puller. I can pull a dozen or so modern 2400-type streamliners at unreasonably high speeds with no trouble.
Bob Nelson"
Many thanks (to all who've replied)!!! I think I'll be able to apply the knowledge you've given me, to design the team of locos to handle the load!
Best to all!
I would think that a less-elegant but easier solution would be to run a wire between the e-unit lugs on each loco (the e-unit lug being the point where the wires for the center rail pickups, e-unit coil and headlamp converge). In this case, both e-units would remain powered, but each would effectively have four center rail pickups instead of only two. Same with the motors. (Probably a good idea to run a ground wire from one engine frame to the next, too, as Bob says above).
Even easier is to just lock out the e-units!
Thank you Nickaix!,
Again, another fine idea! I intend to do a little experimenting with all suggestions. If nothing else, it'll be a helpful learning experience for myself.
Wiring the pickups and frames together does help a lot; but wiring the motors too makes it bulletproof. The problem with leaving each motor powered through its own e-unit is that a momentary interruption of voltage to the track, while experienced identically by both e-units, may cause one to cycle and the other not, since they probably do not have exactly the same speed and sensitivity. They can also get out of sync when running slow. When you lower the voltage, even slowly, one but not the other may release, then cycle as the voltage rises again.
Another consideration is whether to leave both e-units connected when the motors are wired together in parallel. This will work if one e-unit is cycled into neutral, then shut off. When the e-unit is in neutral, it makes no connections at all in the motor circuit, and so the active e-unit can then power both motors with no interference. For a permanent connection, like the one I described for my 2023s, the inactive e-unit can be completely unwired and even removed from the locomotive.
Lionel rated their e-units for four motors; so you are not limited to single-motor locomotives nor to two locomotive units, as long as the total number of motors wired together is no more than four.
Bob Nelson
Thank you all!!! I'm overwhelmed with the coordial replies to my inquiry! This is a GREAT hobby! The Members are the GREATEST and truly knowledgeable! My philosophy has always been "knowledge is power", and in this case, knowledge is "FUN"!!!
Thank you!!!
Hi Guys!
I'm a failure!!! What appeared to be a simple task turned out poorly for me. Phase one went well! I converted my Virginian 2329 over to my second Boston & Maine GP 9. Let me explain. I had a powered B & M 8654 and a non-powered 8655. Now both are powered, as a result of my Virginian's sacrafice. Ok, inside the units. I disabled all 3 wires (yellow, blue, and green) from the 8654. For the test, I ran 3 wires repectively from the 8655 (former Virginian) directly to the unwired motor. I disabled the E unit on the motor that I fed from the 8655. So, in theory, I "felt" I had one "E unit" wired to two DC motors? Then I applied the current, realizing (and actually expecting) one loco going one way and visa versa for the other. Simple enough, I reversed the brush wires to solve the problem. Great, for about a day of experimenting. THEN, the tug of war started! The two motors suddenly changed rotation, while connected to the single E unit. I looked at my wiring, over, and over again, then I decided to hang my head in shame, and ask for help, once again.........PLEASE! When they were in time, WOW, the team pulled 8 of my heaviest cars up the trestle grade, with NO problem. It is a learning experience even for an old timer like myself, BUT, I'm still having fun!!!
Hi PINBALLJOE,
I built up a 2023 (silver\gray) pair for dual motor operation last winter. Out of curiosity, did you hard wire the two locos together? I used plug wire connectors so I could separate the two. they make a laong locomotive.
I had motor reversal also. I think it occurred because of a voltage drop betrween the two locos' motors. Maybe a short or a derail, I don't really know. I had to disconnect the two and cycle the e-unit until I had the lead loco's motor back in correct rotation, then connect the pair again.
Byron
Hi Byron,
Thanks for the reply.
No, I used a male/female connector to join the 2 locos. I'm going to take another stab at it this weekend. In my mind, there's NO reason for the 2 motors to get out of sync, once they are conjoined. In error, I may have left the "unused" E-unit live, even though it was not connected to the motor, it may have some how affected it. I may even use the shoes from the unit with the disabled E unit to supply current for lighting BOTH locos, and the other shoes for feeding the active E unit. I'm determined to succeed with this project!
Best Regards,
Hi Joe, You will. And, you will have a good performing lash-up. When I wired the 2023's, both engines were powered. I removed one e-unit & wired the collectors to supply voltage to both motors & lights. That might have caused my motor reversal. By basically powering a dummy locomotive, I wound oup with a unit that is very light on the rear truck. It derails easily. I haven't found a good way to add weight.
Byron,
Thanks for the encouragement!!!
Try using self-adhesive "automotive wheel weights". As I recall, they're sold in strips, and can easily be separated and applied to the inside of your loco. I'm sure there are hundreds of optional ways, but the lead wheel weights are easy to work with, and are very low profile.
Happy Holidays!
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month