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O gauge confusion as opposed to HO

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O gauge confusion as opposed to HO
Posted by john galt on Saturday, October 20, 2012 12:31 AM

So bought a MTH O scale "Loco Sound" in 2003  when my Wife decided to put up "Kincaid type houses" around the Christmas tree...she found a "N" scale engine..and wanted me to buy more.. I had her measure the door ways on the buildings, and I told her it would not look "right" if the train could drive through the house doorway..so I bought "O" ..now with Ps2 ( i got a MTH Pennsy set from a pawn shop cheap.. I have been adding discounted cars I get from LHS ) I just bought DCS wireless( $269 at another LHS..and a lot of Gargraves track and , MTH turnouts used, andcheap..I am seeking to put up a loop and some switching..I have a 25' X 25" "L" shaped room to travel around the walls in ..here is my point..or questopn.. there are so many sizes of "O" scale rolling stock..I have been focused on only MTH stuff but I am running out of options on sale.. there are many other brands  I can get discunted but one manufactures "O" scale is noticably smaller than anothers..I understand "Scale" as opposed to "27" or "31" but  it seems like there is no consistency..and DCS wont run Legacy or vice/versa..why isn't there a "standard" like my DCC Digitrax....And the costs of these engines is outrageous..I hope this Christmas there is a "deal" from MTH..also the quality of the track is getting lame.. hollow rails as opposed to solid may seem like they are "saving us money" but I would rather pay another dollar for a 36" straight ..than have to spend time getting solid rail track...I was considering selling my HO..but this "O" scale stuff, while intriguing seems a little foolish to attempt to get immersed in...O well a little rant a little rave..hope t see some insight on the issue...

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, October 20, 2012 5:06 AM

As you have learned there are competing incompatible systems in O gauge trains.  There are also multiple sizes.  I suggest you post this topic on the Classic Toy Train forum where there are several knowledgeable folks.  http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95.aspx

The only standards are set by the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA).  These are mostly for scale model trains as opposed to toy trains, although there are some wheel and track ones for toy trains. 

If you are interested in the size of O for a hobby as opposed to Christmas tree layouts, you should consider O scale 2 rail, this site has some information.  Some manufactures such as Atlas have both 2 rail and 3 rail versions of their models and track.

Finally, if cost is major issue consider HO.  HO has many economy lines unlike the other scales that will help you enjoy the hobby on a budget.

Good luck

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, October 20, 2012 12:18 PM

If one of your objectives is to have something to run under the tree, I suggest looking at some On30. It doesn't loom so large as the regular O stuff and you can use HO track to run it on. It's not super cheap, but is more affordable than MTH.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, October 20, 2012 12:21 PM

I'm moving this to Classic Toy Trains.

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Posted by 8ntruck on Saturday, October 20, 2012 4:53 PM

Take a look at the Lioinel web site.  They have a short description about the various sizes of O gage equipment.

Good luck.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:54 PM

Certainly some O Gauge stuff can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be.  If MTH is a bit pricy for you check out the Williams by Bachman line or Ready Made Trains by Aristo-Craft.  Check out the trains shows (if any) in your area and buy used.  Quite a bit of my stuff is used and I've had no problems. 

Also, check the ads in CTT, quite a few mailorder places have deep discounts on O Gauge.

Personally, I've never cared for HO. When I was a kid some of my friends had HO sets and they always seemed to be derailing.  My Lionels ALWAYS stayed on track unless I did something stupid like running them too fast.  In all fairness those were probably cheap HO sets but the bad taste has lingered to this day.  Besides, nothing beats the thundering majesty of O Gauge, get a bunch of them fired up and the whole house shakes!

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Posted by overlandflyer on Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:39 AM

john galt

... there are so many sizes of "O" scale rolling stock..I have been focused on only MTH stuff but I am running out of options on sale.. there are many other brands  I can get discunted but one manufactures "O" scale is noticably smaller than anothers..I understand "Scale" as opposed to "27" or "31" but  it seems like there is no consistency.. ...

historically O, or more correctly 0 (zero), started out life as a gauge, not a scale.  #0, #1 (which is now referred to by some as G gauge), #2, #3, etc were defined in the late 1800's well before 99% of all prototype locomotives were even designed.  through the 1920's and well into the 30's there were very few models of prototype locomotives or rolling stock, so scale remained pretty much undefined.  tinplate tubular track and wheel standards allowed for more compact layouts that could not be achieved in small spaces without concessions to scale lengths.  these early models were caricatures of trains, not intended to be scale models.

as the mid to late 30's rolled around with improving materials, and motor development not to mention finally having a short history of standardized prototype equipment which could be modeled, the move for more realism was key in the formation of groups like the NMRA.  i've got to imagine that if electronic calculators were available then, scale factions would have used a 1:45.2 ratio for O gauge track, but with slide rules and chalkboards to work with, 1:48 (~1/16" error) was likely deemed close enough.

unfortunately with true scale, size matters, in this case referring to track layouts.  scale wheels and proportions would require very large radius curves which would require very large rooms.  most scale modelers who broke away from tinplate were forced to find clubs with warehouse size spaces to enclose their 60 - 84" radius mainline curves.

at the same time, even tinplaters were desiring more realism, so to keep the small layout size, scales were reduced and compressed down to as small as 1:64 (Marx 3/16" scale, Flyer Tru-scale, Lionel Jr/O27), keeping a relative scale, but exaggerating the gauge and keeping the wheel standards relaxed enough to stay operational.

because actual standard gauge is visually a bit on the narrow side (average ~10' wide cars running on a gauge less than half that width), an overgauged scale probably looks ok to most people.  certainly O being overgauged (60" vs 56.5") is much less distracting to the eye than something like Aristo-Craft and USA Trains producing 1:29 scale on #1 gauge track (50.75" vs 56.5") which makes those models appear very precariously balanced on track that is far too narrow for the scale.

so after more than a century of development, it is no wonder that O gauge probably has the most diversified following.  you have to find your niche.  you can find true scale equipment, scale dimensional equipment that makes some concessions to wheel & coupler standards, semi-scale equipment (somewhat compressed in length), and some tinplate still made, collected and run for the pure enjoyment of seeing something circle a tree once a year.

i don't collect everything O, but i understand the need and enjoy seeing any project done well.
cheers...gary
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Posted by jwse30 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 12:02 PM

If you are looking for scale sized cars, I would like to recommend Weaver. Their cars are scale sized, very affordable, and many of them are still made in the USA. I would try to get ones with diecast metal trucks as opposed to the plastic ones (I don't think they even make the plastic trucks anymore). While I've never had any problems with the plastic ones (I don't run them too much) , the metal ones do give the cars a bit more heft. Atlas has a Trainman series which I think are scale sized, just not as detailed (nor expensive) as their higher end models. There was a company called Frank's Roundhouse that made some scale (I think) cars that occasionally show up in the used market that are very nice.

MTH also makes a Railking line which for many items are smaller than scale. I point this out to possibly save you some disappointment later if you were unaware of it. Atlas makes an Industrial Rail line that is also smaller than scale, and I think most of the Williams line is not scale either. Lionel is probably the most confusing one out there in that they have no set way of telling you if an item is scale or not, or at least not one that I've seen.

Hope this helps,

J White

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Posted by overlandflyer on Sunday, October 21, 2012 12:09 PM

jwse30

If you are looking for scale sized cars, I would like to recommend Weaver. Their cars are scale sized, While I've never had any problems with the plastic ones (I don't run them too much) , the metal ones do give the cars a bit more heft.

at one time i was running long strings of the Weaver PS2 boxcars (excellent models in a large number of roadnames) and found that securing 3-4 fender washers over each truck vastly improved their tracking ability.  with large freight consists the horizontal force of the couplers will often pull too-light cars right off the track.

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Posted by traindaddy1 on Monday, October 22, 2012 1:11 PM

Hi!  Some of the replies to your post have been very informational.  Having been in both the "O" and "HO" worlds, may I just say that "trains" are a hobby and should be treated as such.  The approach should be with "intent".  Are you a 'player' or are you a 'modeler'?  (Players enjoy running the trains while Modelers take it one step further and also tend to focus  on more detail)

As far as your 'HO', I would suggest that, if you can afford it, pack them away.  (Or at least, pack away  some of the "better" stuff.) You never know when the 'HO' bug will bite again and you will be that much ahead. 

Whatever your decide, all the best.

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Posted by phillyreading on Friday, October 26, 2012 9:20 AM
Williams and RMT are good quality products for the money. RMT is mostly non-scale as far as O gauge goes. Williams was size consistant or very close to O scale with all their products, and Bachmann is very size consistant as well with the new Williams products. Lionel and MTH are the ones that are not always size consistant or keep to scale, basically Lionel and MTH are all over the place with sizing! Weaver can get expensive, also be careful what style couplers Weaver is selling! A little warning from experiance with Weaver and Lionel freight cars on the same train; be ready for a derailment, at least that is what happened with me.
Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.

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