Putting Train Table on Garage Door Tracks

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
In the search for the ultimate fix for limited space, I am thinking of putting my train layout on garage door tracks. That way I could elevate it to make space in the garage and then lower it when I want to use it. I could even use a garage door opener to raise and lower the table.

Right now my layout is on a 4x8 table made of plywood and 1x4's. Has anyone tried what I am talking about? I would love to have some plans or advice.
Thank in advance,
George

[Anonymous]

What are the tracks dimensions? Ive made a pully layout before, i could make a diagram.

[Anonymous]

I have not laid out the track yet, but it is going to be on a flat 4x8 table made of 1x4's with 1/2" plywood on top.

What do you mean by a pulley layout?
Thanks in advance,
George

[Roger Bielen]

The garage door hardware I'm familiar with is essentially a 90 deg. bent rail system, a vertical and a horizontal at the ceiling. Would you just anchor one end and let the board hang vertical when not in use? I can't visuallize how it would function.

[Big_Boy_4005]

This is not a viable plan as far as I can tell. Garage door openers and tracks are designed to be used with counterbalances, thus reducing the effective weight of the door. What happens when you want to put the car in? I'm curious, how old are you George? This doesn't sound like a plan an adult would come up with, that's part of the reason that Jerry thinks he can make it work. No offense Jerry.

[Anonymous]

36, but young at heart. :-)

I do think this could work, but how difficult is the question...

1. I would not use all of the garage door rails. Just the vertical part. I don't want the table to go perpendicular to the floor, just be able to raise it from about 48" off the floor to about 85-90". At this height, you would be able to pull the car in and also operate the current garge door.

2. I would install springs to counterbalance the weight of the table. You can buy springs at different tension levels. The table weighs about 65lbs so I would want about 40lbs of spring to counterbalance. That way you could lift it and lower it without too much force.

3. The table would sit perpendicular to the current garage door so it would not interfere with it.

4. The only reason I am considering garage door hardware is that it is readily available and cheap. You could try to do this with pulleys, but balancing the rope between the four pulleys would be difficult.

I am not asking for engineering plans here, just if anyone has done this before. If it is too hard (it looks that way) I will skip it.
George

[Big_Boy_4005]

That sounds a lot better than I had imagined. I have tried the 4 pulley thing, and it's awfull. I suppose if you just did straight rails the full height of the space, then had a set of wheels on the back corners, and a second set attached to a brace to hold the table in a cantilever position, then applied counter weights for a straight lift, it might just work. The thing to watch out for is wracking. You don't want any twisting from an uneven lift.

Sorry about the age remark, wild ideas usually come from young minds.[swg]

[Anonymous]

No offense, Elliot.

[lionelsoni]

Springs work as counterbalances for sectional garage doors because the load to be balanced increases from nothing to the full weight as the door closes. The spring force increases with deflection, so the spring force increases as the amount of door to be supported increases. For a load like a layout, you want a constant force. I think the best bet is a weight.

How about two straight diagonal rails on two opposite walls of the garage, with a frame between them to support the layout. Each corner of the layout would travel in its own rail. The layout would move from its operating position diagonally up and toward the other end of the garage. All four corners would be supported by the rails all the time. A wire from each corner would go up to the upper end of that corner's track, to pulleys to gather all four together and connect them the counterweight. Stops at the bottom of the tracks or even legs attached to the support frame could take the load off the wires in the down position. The rails could turn horizontal for a foot or so at the top, to lock the layout into the up position.

How wide is your garage? A single-car garage would be about right for the 4x8-foot layout you describe. A double-car garage could of course handle one 16 or more feet long, if you were inclined to expand it, since the frame would have to be that big anyway.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I took a couple of minutes to whip up a diagram illustrating the concept as George has described, and Bob's as I understand it. (Don't worry Roger, I didn't get it at first either.[swg])

Bob's concept is interesting, but seems more complicated, as it would require the use of parallel walls. Even though it uses multiple rails, it doesn't prevent the layout from twisting and binding in the tracks. I'm not sure if this scenario is going to work for George, as his garage may be wider than is practical for this design.

Figure A may capture more of George's original concept, and may actually be doable. Using Bob's suggestion of simple counter weights, the balance could be fine tuned for smooth and easy operation. As materials were added to fini***he layout additional weight could be added. An easy way to make counter weights is with a large can filled with cement, and a wire loop cast into it as a hook.

George, if you decide to try this, and find that it works, we would love to see photos.

If you want to make things a little easier, consider using a sheet of extruded styrofoam as your base rather than plywood.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for the great advice (as usual)! Option A was exactly what I had in mind (and now I have a diagram). Counterweights would work much better than springs.

Now I just have to find the hardward for all this.
George
p.s. no offense taken on the age thing.

[Big_Boy_4005]

You're welcome George. Sorry about the initial skepticizm. This is a rather unique method. I'm not sure anyone has ever taken this approach before. Make sure to put an X brace, or even a solid panel, parallel to the wall connecting the upper and lower wheels on opposite sides.

You don't want any side pressure on the tracks, they should just serve as a guide for raising and lowering. The tracks will carry part of the cantilever weight of the layout, so make sure they are secured strongly, especially at the top.

Good luck.[:)]

P.S. It should be very easy to get under the layout for wiring.[:p][:D][;)]

[lionelsoni]

Elliot, you did understand my scheme correctly, despite your comparative youth. ;-) Let me make a couple of points in defense of it:

I think that both schemes are equally vulnerable to binding. The fix for this is to lift both sides together. The best way I know to do this is to connect the lifting wires together to the same counterweight. I described four wires for my design; but on reflection I think that two would suffice, connected to the right-hand corners in your diagram.

I imagine that George has at least 16 feet clear from front to back of his garage. So a 4-foot table can travel 12 feet, while rising at most 4 feet. This is a slope of 1/3. So the weight to be counterbalanced is only one-third of the total layout weight.

I concede that the greatest weakness of my design is the length, if George has a two-car garage. (How wide is it, George?) A frame that long would certainly not be made of 1x4s. I imagine steel would be involved.

Both designs can benefit from legs in the down position. The cantilever of A would create a continual risk that someone would put too much weight on the edge. It could easily have four legs. The two close to the wall would never get in the way; but the other two would have to fold when the table is up. The two-car version of B could also use additional legs in the middle, also foldable, to make the frame design more practical.

Don't forget the trick of turning the rails toward the horizontal at the top. That way, the table can be slightly underbalanced when down, to keep it on the floor, and overbalanced when up, so as not to depend on any kind of latch.

In any case, I suggest a bucket for a counterweight, filled with something heavy and adjustable, like rocks, sand, gravel, or, my personal favorite, railroad spikes.

[Big_Boy_4005]

In this conversation, I appear to be the middle man, at 43. [;)] I'll admit to having tried a few crazy ideas when it comes to trains over the years.

I totally agree about the legs, there is no reason not to have them, and as you pointed out some good reasons to include them. A pair along the back side wouldn't even have to fold up, and would provide a stop when lowering. It would probably be a good idea to have some kind of catch hanging from the ceiling. This would carry a little bit of the weight in the up position, and lock it in place when not in use.

I guess slightly overbalanced would work too. Don't forget to leave room for the weight to get past the table if you hang it behind. Also add weight as you build.

[Anonymous]

Hi all, The garage is a single car garage. It is 10 feet 9 inches wide.
George

[Big_Boy_4005]

If you went with Bob's method, you could get a couple of extra feet on the layout. The trade off would come in usable storage space on the side walls. They would have to be kept clear for the layout to be raised and lowered. Decisions, decisions.[swg]

[Charles Kegel]

Hello George
As I look at your post what comes to mind is my wall bed!

It easily folds up and down and uses gas shocks similar to some auto hood systems.

Just an idea

Charles

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys -
My first time posting...
As a dad with 4 kids, I'm just getting into model railroading (mostly due to lack of space). So I was toying with this exact idea when I thought I'd look around on the web for garage door rails and installation ideas. I couldn't believe it when I came across this posting!

Just curious on learning about your progress and lessons learned on the project. Also, any recommendations on where to get garage door tracks? (I don't recall seeing them at Lowes or Home Depot.)

My plan is a bit more (perhaps overlay) ambitious. I'm planning on three moving tiers of project platforms, each 12' x 8', riding on four rails. One tier for model railroad, one for hot wheels, and one for woodworking/crafts. This will be going in the basement -- fortunately it's a 10' ceiling.

I realize we're talking about significant weight, so I'll have plenty of support. Perhaps I'll use residential construction steel. I've got plenty of advanced DIY'er experience, so I'm confident I can get it done. Just want to get it right the first time.

Off to the drawing board. I haven't even chosen the scale yet, but leaning toward HO. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
John

[lionelsoni]

HO, of course, is a tool of the devil. S is tolerable, but has too few rails. O is perfect.

Seriously, I noticed some time ago that the minimum radius that you can use is just about the same in all the popular scales, from N to O. As you move from the smallest to the largest, is it customary to make more compromises; so you can fit any of these scales in about the same space if you want.