Hi all, been away from the forum for a while.. while I'm waiting to start construction of the "Tayle-Chase Railroad" in AF S Gauge I've been killing some time with a prewar O layout that consists of mostly Chicago Flyer with some Lionel late prewar.. I started out with Lionel 022 switches and found that the Flyer stuff just doesn't like it. It's perfect on my 4 by 9' layout as I can do a passing siding and a two little sidings on the opposite side. However my ultimate goal was to do all Prewar Chicago Flyer, I have at least 5 little consists with 8.5 inch cars running on the outside loop and the plan is to run the smaller sets on the inside with a second level circle to showcase a little Electric with Passenger cars..
My problem is this, Lionel doesn't like the Flyer switches (the pickup shoe catches on the center rail contact for one thing) and Flyer doesn't like the Lionel Switches (the Engine pickups don't make contact and die on the switch).. I just this afternoon took out the L switches and added the Flyer Switches in their stead and now I can't find Lionel tube track to match the radius. Are the Flyer Switches an odd size that is Flyer only track? Like 40"? Ideally on my Tinplate Empire I would love to be able to run an occasional Lionel consist but it looks like the Flyer.
I would love it if we could open up a discussion that would go through the various prewar switches, associated track radiuses and which engines/cars will perform on which.
Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.
The prewar flyer Switches and track I have are all 40" radius. Like you I have some Lionel and AF Prewar Loco's and cars. The Flyer equipment prefers a larger radius but I have operated my flyer equipment successfully through Lionel switches That includes Chicago Flyer and AC Gilbert 3/16th Prewar trains. How ever I do not have the 022 switches to comment on their operation.
Well for sure the Lionel will not run through the Prewar Flyer switches due to the uncoupler pickup shoe. I don't know much about Lionel but I guess I can assume there are earlier Lionel Switches that MIGHT support American Flyer?
And to make a passing siding using AF Prewar switches I guess I have to find some Prewar Flyer track or resort to something like Gargraves flex (as a last resort)
"The Flyer equipment prefers a larger radius.." But 40 inches? Are you sure you don't mean 40 inches diameter?
If anyone wishes to measure the straight line distance between the ends of the very center of the railhead of the center rail (exclusive of track pins), from that and the number of sections in a complete circle, we can calculate the actual radius of the curved sections.
Bob Nelson
Gilbert prewar Flyer track has 12 sections to a circle so each section is 30 degrees, Just take any radius curve track you have and cut it to 30 degrees. That way you don't have to find Flyer prewar track. Also some earlier Chicago Flyer Switches have the curve section at 45 degrees. I have examples of both
Lionelsoni you are correct it is 40" Diameter.
Gray CatAnd to make a passing siding using AF Prewar switches I guess I have to find some Prewar Flyer track or resort to something like Gargraves flex (as a last resort)...
The Flyer switches have a 30 degree arc, so a single section of modern Lionel or K-Line O-42 "O" (12 to a circle) will bring you back to parallel for a passing siding. The Flyer 30 degree "O" curves are a nominal O-40 (40 inch diameter) and 12 to a circle too, just a bit tighter/smaller than O-42.
Rob
Yes sorry guys I did mean Diameter and not radius..
I tried sections of 042 curve Lionel and it will not bring me back to parallel for a siding. I was rushing and didn't think about cutting a piece of 042 to make it come to parallel.. two train shows this weekend so I'll be on the lookout for some original Flyer track and in the meantime I'll try trimming up a few pieces of Lionel track.
I also wonder is there an earlier Lionel or Flyer switch that is friendly to both Lionel and American Flyer prewar? Pickup shoes on Lionel prewar don't like that center rail contact on AF switches.
Gray CatI also wonder is there an earlier Lionel or Flyer switch that is friendly to both Lionel and American Flyer prewar? Pickup shoes on Lionel prewar don't like that center rail contact on AF switches
The prewar 021 might work.
The guard rails might make the AF locos bounce. In O-27, the Lionel 1121 would work, or the Marx switches:
I have everything straightened out now. I found another minty pair of Gilbert O switches and have found that all I have to do is mark up a piece of Lionel 42" track and cut it on the band saw. Passing sidings are now in place and working well. These switches are just fine with Chicago and Gilbert O. Thanks for the conversation.
I am glad to hear that you were successful!.
Thanks for the help!
But now we'll need pix to make sure all is well.
Here are a few detail pics of my 4'x9' display layout.. :0)
This is a work in progress as they all are.!
On the layout are all Prewar AF trains.. an original AF PW Tunnel, Stations, Water Tower, Switches and a host of Marx accessories.. for some reason I like the early Marx accessories a little better than the AF. The Marx are a little smaller and I think the scale goes better.
(There are a few Lionel pieces on there, but I'll be replacing them when suitable items come up. So I didn't go all the way over to the "dark side"..)
I'll add an overall shot of the layout later..
Gray Cat - Very nice! Good idea having that Bluebird run up top. What year is that? 1927?
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
From information provided by Northwoods on another post of mine that Engine is a '27 only production. That is not a Bluebird set though. I bought the three blue cars first and needed a blue engine.. I found that little electric to go with.. and yes I'm happy with it on the upper circle. A little electric consist seems to be the logical choice since it has no tender and is overall a smaller set!
After looking through my 1927 catalog, the set only refers to a number associated with it's locomotive. Greg is a great guy with an abundance of information.
The Bluebird set in 1927 had a Locomotive 3013 and cars were not numbered in the set description. Later in the catalog in the back (page 31) there is a page showing passenger cars and thier numbers. The baggage would have been 1205, passenger 1286 and observation 1287.
If it's not a Bluebird set, it's close and still looks great.
Gray Cat,
I like your layout. Its a great example of what you can accomplish in a small space. Wallyworld has some excellent photos and videos of his tinplate layout too posted on the forum. You both have done an excellent job of capturing the fun and charm of "playing" with the equipment from the earlier days of this hobby.
AF53,
Thanks for posting the information on the Bluebird set. I think Gray Cat has done a great job of creating a Bluebird set. I thought I would post a link to the entry on the Pre War Flyer thread about the Bluebird.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/116423.aspx?PageIndex=44
Its on this page if you scroll down.
Sorry if this thread got hijacked.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
A few more photo's.. when I get time I'm hoping to add another 9'x18" piece to allow for a 9' long passing siding so I can have two train consists on the outside loop, alternating back and forth.. I have a few more brass pipers sitting in the wings and "ya gots ta run em to enjoy em!"
Very nice layout! Interesting that you use some Marx on your AF layout; I have a small Marx clockwork layout, and have a couple of AF accessories on it... and always on the lookout for more. The layout looks great, I really enjoyed the pictures.
- James
Nice looking layout! Thanx for the pix.
JamesP Gray Cat, Very nice layout! Interesting that you use some Marx on your AF layout; I have a small Marx clockwork layout, and have a couple of AF accessories on it... and always on the lookout for more. The layout looks great, I really enjoyed the pictures. - James
Thanks guys for the nice words..
As to the Marx, I really like the way they look. I had a bunch of PW AF accessories but I sold them off. I think a lot of them were designed with wide gauge in mind (too big) plus the bell crossing signals didn't work as well as the marx! I especially am happy with the little collection of Marx metal yard and road signs and the tunnel feelers. It's all great fun!
I have the same set (1306, and 1205 both blue) , and I really want to know what the heck it is! can you give a little info about it?
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