2 Rail DC or 2 Rail TMCC

[Anonymous]

[?] Ok, I got some very good advice yesterday on O scale 2 rail and 3 rail. I've decided to go 2 rail.

Now my next question is.....2 rail DC, or 2 rail TMCC.

I currently have a decent sized HO scale layout with Digitrax DCC (Super Empire Builder to be exact). Would it be more benefical to me to stick with the DC version because of familiarity, and shared resources (if possible), or should I move toward the TMCC system?

Looking for expert advice and opinions please[8D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

2 rail DCC, 3 rail TMCC. TMCC has a number of quirks because it uses radio signals. DCC is probably the best system of any. TMCC is designed for AC powered trains. I don't even want to talk about DCS, because it has too many limitations.

[spankybird]

You may wi***o look at MTH 2 rail with what they call Proto-Scale 2 -3. They have introduce engines that can run on either 2 rail or 3 rail. The center pick-up roller can be removed for 2 rail use or added for 3 rail use. It will run on either AC or DC and of course is command controlled with DCS.

I sorry to say that I disagree with Big Boy on DCS.

One other thing about PS2 engines is that the chug rate can be programmed to 4 chugs per revolution of the wheels and also the smoke is synchronized to the wheels also.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Sorry Tom, but if he commits to the new DCS stuff he becomes locked into buying MTH engines. MTH will not sell you receivers to retrofit locomotives, and you can't get the codes to use any other kind of controls, like a computer. I still feel that if he is going with 2 rail he should just forget TMCC and DCS and stick to DCC. He will have fewer problems, and better options. The truth is that DCC is better than either DCS or TMCC, but because our engines have so many more features, and run on AC we have become dependent on them. Both systems were designed specificly for our trains.

[ben10ben]

When the Atlas forum(www.atlaso.com) comes back on line sometime next month, you may wi***o post your question there. There are more people on Atlas who run 2 rail than on any of the other forums that I know of, and I know that a good many of them run 2 rail TMCC.

On the OGR forum, members Lisa Marie Tahtaras and Hudson J1e run 2 rail TMCC. You might want to get in touch with them. Both have reported excellent results with 2 rail TMCC.

[spankybird]

Well Elliot,

Sometimes you just can’t believe what they first tell you. When PS2 first came out, MTH said that you can’t upgrade the PS1 engines to it. They also said that they would not share it with other manufactures. And now they do offer PS2 upgrades and you can add the upgrade to other make of engines. Some of the features of PS2 may not work, depending on the engine and manufacture.

I believe you are 100% correct about not being able to control it from a PC. I know it can be done, but they aren’t sharing it. I do wonder if you can thru the TMCC commode base and TIU?

I do think it is interesting that they are offering engines that can run both AC and DC, 2 rail and 3 rail with just a flick of a switch.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I just got my new CTT and saw the upgrade kits. A little pricy at $150, but it is a step in the right direction. I think the problem with the computer control is that The serial port on the TMCC command base has to be tied to DCS and that leaves no connection for the computer. Even if the signal could be split off, there is still the problem of communication. DCS can "speak" TMCC, so it can issue commands to TMCC engines, but nothing can "speak" DCS because the codes are not public. I'm not even sure if the port is "listening" during normal operation. Don't you have to be in a different mode for DCS to accept input?

I'm not sure what to say anymore Tom. I know what my plans are. Part of the decision of what control system to choose has to do with how you like to run your trains,and what features you are most interested in. It is the command control aspect that interests me the most, because I'm looking for realistic opreation. Sound and smoke are nice, but not my main focus. I want to run a railroad, not simply run trains. I'm not sure what the person asking the question wants to do. I suppose that any of the systems could be made to do the job. The questions are features needed, cost, and simplicity. In the end it will be his decision what to choose. All we can do is try to give him an idea what each system is like. [sigh][:)]

[ChiefEagles]

DCS with operate in DC mode. OGR forum has been talking about it.

[spankybird]

Elliot,
Knowing the size of your layout plans (which is larger than my house, I am jealous, of course), and wanting to control your layout by a PC, I believe in your case TMCC is best. I just wanted dgoodlander be aware of something that is new and up coming.

I agree that the upgrade kits are pricey. IMO it doesn’t pay to upgrade a PS1 Rail-King engine to PS2. It cost another $125.00 to have it installed. At $275.00 total, it is almost the cost of a new engine with PS2. In fact, in the Rail-King line, I have on order 2 engines that are less than that. The Premier line is a different story.

I am surprised that none of the other manufactures, such as K-line is not making engines with out any electronics, and designed to have the upgrade kit just plug in and have the buyer install the upgrade kit. I mean if you can buy one, gut it, install the upgrade kit, why not sell it without the guts.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm with you there Tom, that upgrade pricing is a little goofy. It's like why bother, unless you are in love with the engine. It's almost like Mike wants to test your level of love.

I'm not sure what this guy is up to on this question. It may be more rhetorical than anything else. I answered a totally different type of question for him over on MR yesterday. He seemed fairly committed to his HO stuff on that topic. We are sill having an interesting discussion either way. It's a pretty big leap to suddenly switch scales, especially if you have a lot invested. On the other hand, stranger things have happened.[swg]

[spankybird]

I know, I have seen guys on other board get all wet mouth over the upgrade. Unless you have an engine over $700.00 or $800.00 or one that you really feel will not me re-introduced with PS2, it doesn’t make cents or dollars.

[Anonymous]

To answer your question Big Boy 4005 on what I'm up to,...... well I love trains, all scales. While I've been heavily involved in HO for years, O has started to catch my eye. Catch my eye, because HO is getting harder to see if you know what I mean. I don't see why I can't have two layouts, I have the space. As soon as I get some more loose change, I'll buy my first engine and work from there.

As for the question of DC v. TMCC, I have a lot invested in DCC, and I thought if I could use the existing system it would be a cost savings for me. I asked the question to see if one of the current O scale (TMCC, DCS, PS2, etc,) systems were better than the other, or if O scale is not compatable with DCC. I visited a few shops over the weekend and most of the owners said I should go 2 rail with DCC as opposed to either TMCC or DCS. They described TMCC as garage door opener technology and PS2 as MTH only. They said DCC offers the most flexibility, plus I already have the system.

So, that's where I'm headed. Thanks guys for the input and the chit chat.

[Big_Boy_4005]

You're welcome, sorry about the "what you're up to" remark. Most people don't do two scales with the same level of passion, and I got the impression that you were still very serious about your HO. I quit all other scales in favor of 3 rail more than 20 years ago. I do have moments where I miss HO, but I get over them.

I think you are making the right decision for 2 rail. 3 rail is a different story, and if that had been your choice the recommendation would have been different.

Actually the command portion of your DCC system should be able to work either or both layouts. You may need more or higher output power stations, and some of the higher current rated receivers, but you probably already know that. B&O in O as well?[swg]