A Lionel Pre War question?

[Anonymous]

Over the weekend I went to an estate sale with my girlfriend where they were selling stuff out of a house where an old guy lived. I found and bought an old Lionel metal Pre War double ended electric engine that has the number 253 on the brass plates in the sides. It is a light yellowish green with a dark green bottom. It's in really great shape. My question is that it has a lever on the lower side to change directions. I thought all Lionel engines either had no E-units or had a remote control E unit. I don't hink this has been changed because the lady selling stuff there was a relative of the guy that died and said that he had it all his life since it was new. I looked inside and all of the wiring and stuff looks original and the same. Even the round switch that the reversing lever is connected to. I got it to run with my other tinplate cars and stuff. The price was $75 for the engine. The cars were gone. It doesn't have any damage and looks like it sat more than was used. I put it on my track after cleaning the wheels and oiling things and it runs pretty good, but maybe it should be cleaned a little more as the motor is noisy. (gears?) My question is should I take this engine and have an E unit put in it or is that switch original? Why would Lionel use a switch instead of remote control? Is this a cheaper engine or something? I know that my 248 doesn't reverse at all. No switch or E unit or anything. I was told that this was a basic engine for starters back then. Is the 253 the same thing?

Sorry, I had to fix spelling and typing.

[lionelsoni]

The switch is original. The "E" in e-unit comes from a suffix that was often added to prewar locomotive numbers to designate that they the new "electrical" reversing unit. For example, you might have found a 253E. When e-units became ubiquitous, the "E" was no longer used.

Your 253's noise is normal. Just make sure that there is grease (not oil) on the gears.

Does it still have its pantograph? The correct pantograph looks absurdly small and might have been replaced. The small pantograph is however prototypical and intended for running with an upside-down rail, not a wire, in the tunnels around New York City.

[SPFan]

The lever on (most?) of the pre war units is two position. In one position the loco runs in the direction it was last run and will not change directions with power interruptions. In the other position every time power is cut the engine reverses. There is no neutral position as found in the Post war E units. So in fact you can reverse the direction remotely.

Pete

[lionelsoni]

I doubt that Warren's switch controls an e-unit of any kind. Rather, as he says, it probably controls the direction directly.

Lionel acquired Ives for their 3-position e-unit before 1930.

[SPFan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni
[br

Lionel acquired Ives for their 3-position e-unit before 1930.

Interesting Bob. I guess that dates my 254E to before 1930.

Pete

[Anonymous]

Pease;

The item you say you have is a Lionel #253 (not E) in
what is known as Stephen Girard green/dark green/
cream inserts. It was made between 1924-1932. The
switch you describe (round with a lever sticking out)
is a manual reversing switch. Your engine has no
remote control reversing mechanism (E-Unit). They
didn't start showing up until about 1931 in that model.

The "noise" you hear is probably worn idler gears
between the motor armature gear and the wheel
gears. These idler gears were originally made of a
composite material and tended to wear badly against
the other metal gears on the motor and wheels. You
might want to have the loco looked at by a repair
shop or person familiar with these old beasts. A
replacement set of idler gears are available from many
different suppliers and the job is not too difficult if the
right tools and methods are used. Maybe the repair
person would be willing to let you watch and then
you can do the job if you ever get any more old locos.

I notice that you are beginning to accumulate some
tinplate, so you might want to invest in the TCA book
"Lionel Trains, Standard of the World, 1900-1945"
written by Donald M. Fraley MD and the Fort Pitt
Chapter of the TCA. It's a great reference book with
good color pictures and a paint chart to check your
colors to help see if they have been repainted or if
you have a rare variation. The info I posted to you
comes from this book.

Even if you don't join TCA, get the book as it is a
valuable tool.

Oh yeah...Congatulations on the find! Those Stephen
Girard locos are a little rare. You don't see them often
and the few that I have seen are usually well worn.
Enjoy.

[Dave Farquhar]

The Ives e-unit didn't appear in any Lionel-branded product until 1932, even though Lionel bought Ives in 1930. You are correct that the e-unit was one of the major reasons (if not the main reason) for Lionel purchasing Ives.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone who sent replies. I never expected this much assistance. I think I will look into buying that book you mentioned, Ches. My engine does not have a relay
inside it like my Post War engine. Just a round switch. I never thought that I would find
a rare train at a yard sale. WOW. My girl friend thought I paid a lot for an old toy, but wait until she sees this information. There are an awful lot of nice helpful folks here. Not like other train sites and places I've been to. I hope someday I can help out somebody here in return. Thanks again.

[Dave Farquhar]

Pease, with your attitude, you'll be able to help someone out sooner than you think.

As far as finding something like that at a yard sale, it doesn't happen every time but it happens. You'll see me out hunting almost every Saturday. For me, the hunt is a big part of the fun. Then there's finding out exactly what you got, and then doing whatever you have to do to get it looking good and running on your layout. That can be fun whether you find something from the 1920s or a Scout set from 1969.