My CW80 is dying I need to buy a new one soon. It is the older one with all the problems, and I know the new model is supposed to have been fixed, but I’ve lost faith in Lionel. Plus it almost Christmas and I don’t want to pay the price for the ZW. I’m looking at the MTH Z-1000 Transformer because of the price and was just wondering if there are any known problems with it.
The Z-1000 is pretty good.
If you want an all-in-1 package(not separate controller & brick) try the Williams 00233 unit(a very substantial heavy-duty transformer - pure sine wave)
or the related Atlas ATO1000080
Rob
Thanks, I'll take a look at them both. Actually I forgot about Atlas.
I had one other question about the operation of these controllers.
Do all controllers operate the same way as the CW80? I’m asking because I absolutely hate having to move the throttle back and forth to get it to move in the correct direction.
JohnnyB,
I don't know what your roster looks like, but if you have any small, or non-sound locomotives, you may be disapointed with the Z-1000. The Z-1000 has a much higher minimum voltage, if you have PS2 locomotives, their electronics will suck up the first several volts, and may not be a problem.
If you have any K Line Plymouths or Porters, or Lionel 0-6-0 Docksiders for instance, forget about smooth starts and switching with theese switchers, 0-Warp Drive in the blink of an eye. These locomotives are often criticized for their "Poor Slow Speed Manners" when it's not the locomotive, but the power supply at fault. Even my Lionel Mikado jr starts much more smoothly and runs much slower with a CW-80, than with a Z-1000.
I have several revised CW-80s and they have been very Good and Reliable transformers. A revised CW-80 should be worth considering, If you want BETTER throttle control, Better accessory output control, and BETTER(in MY opinion) looking. Plus it is an all-in-one unit, no seperate inconvenient power brick.
The Z-Controller can have it's own issues as well, I have one that has had very little use, and with the throttle all the way off, it still sends out enough voltage to light the headlight and power the sound system on my Mikado jr, but it wont cycle the e-unit using the throttle.
Good luck with whatever you choose to buy as a replacement,
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
A new CW-80 probably would solve your problems but there are other alternatives. The MTH Z-1000 is an excellant step up giving you a little more power. The major issue with CW-80 is that it does not match up well with MTH locomotives which could limit your purchases in the future.
Bill T.
Right now I have two unrevised CW80s and 4 or 5 very small older transformers that I can’t remember what they are at the moment. As far as Locos go I have all Lionel steamers and one Williams Amtrak Set. I only have two lines because my layout’s not big enough to run anymore.
I don’t think I really want the “0-Warp Drive” controller. That’s one of the problems I have now with the bad CW80, plus it just stops and reverses at full speed for no reason.
I probably should just bite the bullet and buy something like the ZW because I expect that it’s just a matter of time for the second CW80 to go out. No I think I’ll just keep it simple even if it means another CW80.
SleeperN06 Right now I have two unrevised CW80s and 4 or 5 very small older transformers that I can’t remember what they are at the moment. As far as Locos go I have all Lionel steamers and one Williams Amtrak Set. I only have two lines because my layout’s not big enough to run anymore. I don’t think I really want the “0-Warp Drive” controller. That’s one of the problems I have now with the bad CW80, plus it just stops and reverses at full speed for no reason. I probably should just bite the bullet and buy something like the ZW because I expect that it’s just a matter of time for the second CW80 to go out. No I think I’ll just keep it simple even if it means another CW80.
Okay with above said I would look into a used ZW on ebay for about 1/2 the price. But go with one of the ones that guarantee it if you don't want to maybe have to repair the rollers or anything ( from what told not really hard or expensive but they do go) I bought one and chief fixed it for me and I won't trade it for anything gives me all the power I want I have even hooked up TMCC with a TPC 300 to it to run my conventional and get lot better control out of it and my trains. but the ZW it self is great. I do need to get some surge protection but I don't have a layout yet . I use to run 135 bricks for TMCC but one the surge protection won't trip and lost a power-master that way. but if your just doing conventional you should be okay I would think.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
rtraincollectorOkay with above said I would look into a used ZW on ebay for about 1/2 the price. But go with one of the ones that guarantee it if you don't want to maybe have to repair the rollers or anything ( from what told not really hard or expensive but they do go) .
I just searched eBay and the controllers are selling for over $200 and I still have to buy the power packs or “bricks”. There are a lot of bids that are way under that, but they are still two and three days away from ending. At lot can change in that much time usually within the last hour. From my experience of buying Locos on eBay it’s a long shot to get anything cheap on eBay. I now only buy if I can’t get it anywhere else and usually ending up paying a lot more.
I’m thinking now that maybe I might buy two MTH Z-1000 Transformers so that they will match. I also do like the idea of the separate “bricks” because weight has always been a problem for me with the CW80. At least I can hide the power packs under the layout and not have to worry about the grandkids knocking them on to the floor. I have the CW80s screwed down right now and its always a chore when I want to work on them or move them.
I was talking used zw's not newer ones. I was talking the original 250/275 watt ZW from post war period sorry didn't state that.
heres a couple of them this doesn't come with guarantee but states rebuilt 2 years ago. and free shipping
http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-ZW-275-WATT-TRAINMASTER-TRANSFORMER-POST-WAR-/120651089613?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c175d86cd
heres another with shipping comes out about the same if you win with opening bid.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-ZW-275-Watt-Transformer-instructions-NICE-/380291044410?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item588b1cd43a
just a couple of ideas theres plenty of them there and you also need to remember you were talking both CW-80 were going so your looking at the ability to run 4 trains or 2 and set the inside controllers to what you want and run your accessories from that
rtraincollector I was talking used zw's not newer ones. I was talking the original 250/275 watt ZW from post war period sorry didn't state that.
OK, I’m confused does this actually have the transformer inside or do I need to buy the transformer or power supply separately. I can definitely go for this if I don’t need anything else.
The postwar ZW's are complete in themselves. There are no external bricks or blocks or whatever. You hook your layout direct to the transformer.
balidas The postwar ZW's are complete in themselves. There are no external bricks or blocks or whatever. You hook your layout direct to the transformer.
Oh wow, I did not know that. Well that makes a huge difference and I think I will bid on one of those. Thanks!
You should be warned that the postwar ZW has whistle controls only--bells came later.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni You should be warned that the postwar ZW has whistle controls only--bells came later.
Oh that might be a problem for my Williams Amtrak Genesis. Actually I can’t remember if any of my Lionel stuff has a bell or maybe it never did work. I do remember having a lot of trouble trying to get the Amtrak to work. I pretty much gave up on that, at least with the CW80, because it was always hit and miss.
I wonder if there is something I could add to work the bell.
Yes. Lionel has sold several controllers, meant for operating whistles with transformers like the types V and Z, but which are easily connected to work the bells of modern locomotives. Two of these are the 66 and the 167. There is also a more modern controller using silicon diodes that would work. You can also easily make your own controller--there have been many threads about that on the forum.
lionelsoni Yes. Lionel has sold several controllers, meant for operating whistles with transformers like the types V and Z, but which are easily connected to work the bells of modern locomotives. Two of these are the 66 and the 167. There is also a more modern controller using silicon diodes that would work. You can also easily make your own controller--there have been many threads about that on the forum.
Funny you mention that, because I was just wondering if I could make my own or at least the power supply portion.
I’ve worked 35 years in the Power Systems Industry and have a lot of mostly obsolete transformer parts available that I’ve hung onto just in case I ever needed them. I believe I even have a few large rheostats that I could maybe use as a throttle. Over the years I’ve had to throw many new never used items away, but I did manage to keep a few choice items.
I’m not an engineer, but I’ve had to troubleshoot and repair this sort of stuff for so long that I think I could probably handle it if I had some information as to exactly how the bells and whistles are controlled.
It would not be as pretty as a store bought item, but if I could hide the main power stuff and maybe incorporate a store bought controller that would be visible it would be ok. I have experience at making my own PCB interfaces and could design and build just about anything as long as it doesn’t have to look good.
Traditionally, toy trains were powered from a battery or a fixed-voltage transformer, with a rheostat in series. Lionel even sold voltage-dividers meant to run directly from the 110 or 220-volt power line for houses supplied with Edison-style DC.
Starting some time before World War II, the manufacturers began selling continuously variable transformers, with a wiper or roller moving over the secondary winding to control the voltage.
In modern times, we have contraptions with a bunch of electronics surrounding a fixed-voltage transformer. One popular way of controlling voltage is phase control, in which a triac is fired partway through each half-cycle of the secondary voltage.
Whistles and bells are activated by a DC component superimposed on the AC. Older trains respond the same to either polarity. Modern trains blow the whistle when the DC component on the center rail is positive relative to the outside rails and ring the bell with the other polarity. Earlier true transformers produced the DC component with a copper-oxide rectifier. The new ones can do it by making the triac turn-on times asymmetrical.
Any questions?
lionelsoni In modern times, we have contraptions with a bunch of electronics surrounding a fixed-voltage transformer. One popular way of controlling voltage is phase control, in which a triac is fired partway through each half-cycle of the secondary voltage.
OH WOW!
Well that’s a wealth of information there. I had no idea they got so advanced.
I am very familiar with Triacs and phase speed control. I don’t know what the circuitry looks like in an AC train controller but the circuitries used in the systems I work with are very complicated and just loaded with components. I don’t think I would want to even attempt something like that. No wonder they cost so much.
Well, I think I’ll pass on that idea, but thanks for the education.
quote: "I don't know what your roster looks like, but if you have any small, or non-sound locomotives, you may be disapointed with the Z-1000. The Z-1000 has a much higher minimum voltage, if you have PS2 locomotives, their electronics will suck up the first several volts, and may not be a problem"
This statement is complete nonsense. Not aword of truth to it. My Z-1000 starts off at 0 and SLOWLY goes up from there. It has worked flawlessly with ANY brand of engine be it post war with twin motors or MTH F-3's. You can by a Z-1000 as cheap as $74.00 new. It has 100 watts and 18.0 volts output. You probably DO NOT need a ZW and the added expense unless you want to run 4 trains with it at once.
If you do buy a post war ZW you probably will have to have the cord replaced and the rollers as well. Be prepared to spend maybe another 100.00 to have it serviced.
Roger
trainrat quote: "I don't know what your roster looks like, but if you have any small, or non-sound locomotives, you may be disapointed with the Z-1000. The Z-1000 has a much higher minimum voltage, if you have PS2 locomotives, their electronics will suck up the first several volts, and may not be a problem" This statement is complete nonsense. Not aword of truth to it. My Z-1000 starts off at 0 and SLOWLY goes up from there. It has worked flawlessly with ANY brand of engine be it post war with twin motors or MTH F-3's. You can by a Z-1000 as cheap as $74.00 new. It has 100amps and 18.0 volts output. You probably DO NOT need a ZW and the added expense unless you want to run 4 trians with it at once. Roger
This statement is complete nonsense. Not aword of truth to it. My Z-1000 starts off at 0 and SLOWLY goes up from there. It has worked flawlessly with ANY brand of engine be it post war with twin motors or MTH F-3's. You can by a Z-1000 as cheap as $74.00 new. It has 100amps and 18.0 volts output. You probably DO NOT need a ZW and the added expense unless you want to run 4 trians with it at once.
I believe or got the idea some where hes running two trains and wanted to get separate transformer as he has another cw-80 and would be replacing that sooner or later is why I brought up the old ZW which I still believe would be better idea as he mentioned he had a few transformers running other things to I believe this way it all could be on one. save the other transformers for emergencies or use one or two to do your accessories and for the Williams I have had problem with there true blast 2 no matter what transformer I used ( Lionel or mth) to get both whistle/horn and bell to operate with out using the K-Line whistle/horn and bell controller or something like that.
Oh found where I got the idea
Right now I have two unrevised CW80s and 4 or 5 very small older transformers that I can’t remember what they are at the moment. As far as Locos go I have all Lionel steamers and one Williams Amtrak Set. I only have two lines because my layout’s not big enough to run anymore. Still Think ZW the answer and not necessary new one. as they have some problems 2 now the real new one thats $700 there coming out with is kinda steep for me but I understand its suppose to have the legacey system already in it but still to me just more electronics to go. I'm just more happy with the older and add what I need to make it do what I want when it comes to transformers. by the way the person making the statement about going from zero to whatever they said was probably talking about modern engine which this gentleman has he doesn't have a dual motor post war engine which takes more power to start than the modern engines. The modern dual dc engines don't take much power compared to your post war engine. I'm not sure but bet that one postwar pul-mor motor takes just as much if not more than 2 of the dc motors used today in many of Williams and other companies engines. Also there are completely rebuilt ZW out there for about $200.00 with guarentee not all need new cords and rollers infact doing it your self would probally be less than $25 and to have a service station do and suply the parts about $65 - $75 I don't know why you keep bashing the ZW yes the Z-1000 is a good transformer but its limited to running one engine so again he would need 2 of them. and I'm just wondering what shape they will be in after 50 - 60 years like the original ZW's are in age and still going strong for the most part only reason I say that there alway plenty of them on the internet for sale.
Still Think ZW the answer and not necessary new one. as they have some problems 2 now the real new one thats $700 there coming out with is kinda steep for me but I understand its suppose to have the legacey system already in it but still to me just more electronics to go. I'm just more happy with the older and add what I need to make it do what I want when it comes to transformers.
by the way the person making the statement about going from zero to whatever they said was probably talking about modern engine which this gentleman has he doesn't have a dual motor post war engine which takes more power to start than the modern engines. The modern dual dc engines don't take much power compared to your post war engine. I'm not sure but bet that one postwar pul-mor motor takes just as much if not more than 2 of the dc motors used today in many of Williams and other companies engines.
Also there are completely rebuilt ZW out there for about $200.00 with guarentee not all need new cords and rollers infact doing it your self would probally be less than $25 and to have a service station do and suply the parts about $65 - $75 I don't know why you keep bashing the ZW yes the Z-1000 is a good transformer but its limited to running one engine so again he would need 2 of them. and I'm just wondering what shape they will be in after 50 - 60 years like the original ZW's are in age and still going strong for the most part only reason I say that there alway plenty of them on the internet for sale.
If the Z-1000 really put out 100 amperes, you would need to wire your layout with 4 AWG (which has a diameter of 1/5 inch). It actually puts out 100 watts.
Thanks for the typo correction Bob. You are of course correct.
Sorry I messed the latest activity on this thread. I placed a bid on a ZW, but I am concerned about the missing horn & bell function. I also bid and lost on a Lionel 167 whistle controller, but I also found a wiring diagram with instructions and I think I can make my own control. It depends on how much I can get it for.
And yes I will be running TWO trains at once. I had two Z-1000 Transformers in my shopping cart just in case I changed my mind about the ZW and when I just looked they were out of stock already. Maybe I should have gone ahead and placed my order. I guess someone’s been reading this thread.LOL.
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