Williams vs. the others

[Anonymous]

I've noticed a reoccuring pattern lately. Eventually whenever a thread discusses rolling stock, eventually, Williams comes up, and always in a positive light. Is it possible the other manufactuers are so caught up in their "egos" to realize that modern high quality trains without all the extras are a good thing? Lionel force feeds us with the same stuff from the 1950's every year. (Quick someone tell them that U-boats, GP-9's, and RS-3's were bumped from mainline service a long time ago!!) Their new additude is that the Lionmaster line with its $700 steam locomotives are affordably priced. K-Line seems to have lost its way. One traditional offering - a warbonnet FA-2 is all that was offered this year in their catalog, and how many warbonnets is enough? They too are still stuck in the 50's with the roadnames. And I'm not even going to get into the 8 pages of Coca Cola crap. MTH is almost isolating themselves by making their products that much more different that everyone else. Different height, different size, different operating system... It's really frustrating and sad that the quest for the allmighty consumer dollar is putting simplicity on the backburner. Exept for Williams - just put them on the track, apply power and watch them run without problems for years. I know what I'll be buying in the future- how 'bout you?

[guilfordrr]

Same here, I'm sticking with Postwar and Williams.

[Anonymous]

I also like Williams for their simplicity and price. Just one question? How do you slow them down. A little power and mine fly.

[willpick]

Ogmth, the simplest thing to do is wire the motors in series. I haven't done this to any of mine, as I run DCS, but have read that doing the series wiring is the easy, quick,(and cheap) way to slow them down.
I know that the issue has been talkedabout on the OGR forum, and it's probably been hashed over on this one too---- So i suggest that if you don't get a reply with more detailed info, do a search of the forum----

[ChiefEagles]

Well sort of guys. I like my new Williams but I will convert them to DCS or TMCC. I just had to ship a new one back because of what I guess is a bad reversing board. [happens to all brands] What I do love is they will run lashed up and not get "crossed up" like the old E Units. [pictured are three powered U Boats strapped to one E Unit with a 4 wire harness. hard to handle putting on the track. now they have their own engine track]


Now Williams power? Gracious!!!! I had made up my mind to stay conventional after staying "stored" for 20 years. But now I have DCS and love it and it is real simple to install and run. I run both conventional and DCS with the DCS remote now. Plan on adding the TMCC module to run them on DCS remote.

Its like your tooth brush. Personal. Just enjoy it your way.

[3railguy]

Williams has a niche market for those who like reliability and simplicity at an affordable price. Much of Williams such as their Golden Memories series is postwar Lionel reproductions. Williams freight cars are made like postwar Lionel with the chunky detail, scaled down proportions, and solid truck sides. Williams hasn't tried to be everything to everybody by offering low end trains and high end trains. Their products are somewhere in between. They offer good looking, great running scale sized engines without all the goodies at a nice price.

I don't see Lionel feeding us postwar re-issues like they were in the mid 90's. Much of their tooling is new. They are offering us highly detailed scale engines and rolling stock like they never have before. On the affordable side of the hobby, their new scale diecast docksider for $100 or the polar express set with a diecast berk for $200 seem like a great deal.

[Anonymous]

I just joined the Williams Platinum Club and got a BNSF caboose all for 25.00. I think their aluminum luxury liners are some of the best on the market, especially at their low price. I am looking forward to buying more in the future.....Tim

[ben10ben]

I don't quite understand your comments about Lionel force feeding us stuff from the '50s. If you are refering to them using their old postwar molds, only a handful of them have appeared in the last few catalog, as John Long said. If you are refering to the engines they have decided to model, yeah, a lot are from the '50s and '60s, but that's what a lot of people(myself included) like.

Lionel really, as far as I'm concerned, has the best balance of scale prototypes from the diesel area than any of the others out there. In steamers, they have a scale-sized Docksider from the teens, several steamers from the '20s and '30s, the steam super power giants of the '40s and '50s. For diesels, they have scale-sized E-units from the '30s and '40s, Scale-sized F-units, FAs, and PAs from the '40s and '50s, scale sized Trainmasters, Baby Trainmasters, and other switchers from the '50s, scale-sized U boats and GP-30s from the '60s and '70s, scale SD-40-2s and SD-40T-2s from the '70s and '80s, and DASH-9s, SD-80s, SD-90s, and the Acela from the last 15 years.

[brianel027]

I understand precisely what notch8 means. Sure, there is a great deal of new tooling today. Yes, there is a great deal of variety even within one catalog. Ben is right too, Lionel may have the best variety, but that variety is in the scale department. But as far as the traditional operator goes, it IS pretty much the same old stuff. In the case of Lionel (outside of the $25 line of starter cars) it is not only the same stuff, but overpriced as well. At least Lionel does offer it though. MTH has little outside of the ignored Rugged Rails in this department. Same goes for K-Line with the languishing Train-19 line.

Yes, there is the new Lionel Dockside steamer. Had MTH not made one and done well with it, I do wonder if Lionel would have made one?? And other than the Waffle Side box car introduced in the mid-90's there has been NO new tooling done for the smaller traditional 027 operator. Even minus the new tooling... it is always the same roadnames. notch8 is also right on with the K-Line Alco FA. Yeah, I suppose Santa Fe is the good seller... but it might be nice to see the same exact paint scheme modified with BNSF on the sides and on the nose. They've had the same Santa Fe war bonnet loco in their catalog in one form or another since 1993.

With the previous success of the Industrial Rail* line of cars, and the success of Willams and also with the R-M-T Beep I would say there is a market for new items that are less than full scale: traditional in size and operating mode. The factor that needs to be considered here is that the majority of the train companies are in a dead-heat competition with eachother. As with the automobile manufacturers, the glory does not come with the economy model; the glory comes with the luxury models.

Whether or not the vast majorty of sales actually come from scale end product (Lionel has said their starter sets and related starter cars have strong sales), the big excitement with the catalog announcements comes from the top line scale end offerings. And if one company is offering detailed scale product, then the remaining companies are going to offer similar products. That is just the nature of competition and capitialism. Lionel's scale Acela offering has probably received more attention than had it been a non-scale more toy like offering of the same product. Even reading the train forums one finds far more anticipation and chatter over the 12 pages of the newest (or anticipated) scale sized, scale detailed diesel loco offerings than over the single page of traditional non-scale diesel offerings.

Truth be told, I think since starter types of items are already selling repectably, the companies feel it's not needed to put any more effort or financial investment into them. Especially when it is the top-line products that garnish all the attention and excitement and buzz on the train forums. And also the train companies have no new retail outlets outside of what's been around for years: established train shops and mail order venues. Given the state of the hobby, the companies are therefore chasing their established market: the older adult operating modeler who wants scale proportioned train items.

And given the large amounts of money that have been invested into the new scale product development and tooling, I sincerely doubt the train companies have the extra capital laying around to also invest in non-scale traditional products. The lawsuit costs can't be making this easier either.

Unfortunately, the companies are not only chasing their markets, but they are chasing eachother too... how many scale sized GP-38's or scale Hudson's can the market really absorb? But again, the nature of the bitter competition that exists between the big companies means that if company A has a scale GP-38, companies B and C are going to have one too. Not necessarily because the market warrants more scale GP-38's, but because of the bitter competition and bad blood that exists right now.

But again, I point to the buzz and success of the R-M-T BEEP to show that there is a need and desire for product that caters to the non-scale sized budget operators. Or with the past success of the (UMD) Industrial Rail line. *I just wi***hat as long as UMD was doing new tooling, that they had done a more modern waffle-style box car or outside braced box car rather than a copy of what has been previously available for 50 years. Even if they had done the same exact box car minus the roof walk and full length side ladders... even the prototype railroads have removed roofwalks and shortened side ladders off older box cars.

[Anonymous]

I like the Williams line of trains. They really do have the reliability
thing nailed! Sometimes simple is best. One of their best features
seems to be that they offer things in many different road names,
not just one or two as the "major players" seem to do. Yeah, I
think williams missed a great moment when they let the tooling
go for the "Beeps". But that's the way things go sometimes. By
the way, I have a couple of the Williams "Beeps" and they run very
well! Williams used large lead weights in their power chassis in-
stead of traction tires. They also had two motors instead of the
one that is standard now. Williams seems to pay more attention
to the little things that make for a great loco or piece of rolling-
stock.

[okiechoochoo]

I keep it simple, just Postwar and Williams for me

[Anonymous]

Another vote for simple

Williams and post war are good for me.
Hard to break and easy to fix. Take care of them and they last forever. No worries about power surges or getting them too hot.

I have an old Lionel 681, forgot and left it running 3 hours at christmas time while I was eating dinner. Came back it was barely moving, smoke ran out and the boiler was HOT!! Cooled it off an it was running like a champ again an hour later. Try that with a new one the mother board will melt.