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1621 train set

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bix
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1621 train set
Posted by bix on Monday, August 16, 2010 8:20 AM

I have a question concerning a 1621ws train set from 1959.  According to David Doyle's second edition  of Lionel Trains, states that this set contained a 6464-475 Boston&Maine box car.  The set I recently purchased does not have this car, but instead has a 6464-825 Alaska RR box.  All other cars are as they should be.  My question is, was this car substituted in some sets?  Or has this set been altered by somone else?  The September 2009 issue of CTT "Sets of 1959", does not list the contents of this particular set.  Can anyone out there help me?

Bix

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Posted by DMUinCT on Monday, August 16, 2010 8:39 AM

Looking at my Lionel 1959 Catalog:

"No. 1621WS "O27" 5-Car "Construction Special" Steam Freight $49.95"

"Lionel's No. 1621WS Train Set Includes: 

No. 2037LTS Steam Loco with Whistle Tender

No. 6835 New Flat Car with Arch Trestle Bridge

No. 6519 Allis Chalmers Car

No. 6062 New Gondola with Three Cable Reels

No. 6464-475 Boston & Maine Box Car

No. 6017 Caboose

8 Sections No.1013 Curved Track

3 Sections No.1018 Straight Track

No. 6029 Uncoupling Track Section

No. 1053 60-Watt Transformer

CTC Lockon

Lubricant, Smoke Pellets, and Instructions"

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by cwburfle on Monday, August 16, 2010 5:01 PM

Consider yourself lucky.

The Boston and Maine 6464 boxcar is extremely common, and therefore is easy to find, and relatively inexpensive.
On the other hand, the 6464-825 Alaska RR boxcar is quite scarce, difficult to find, and relatively expensive.

 

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Posted by phillyreading on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:45 AM

With Lionel sets the most common of sets are listed in most price guides, not always listed are the rare or filler item sets for that year. What happens is near the end of a production the company runs out of the cataloged item and substitutes another item very close to it for that one, it is called a variation.

The Alaska box car in the postwar # 6464-825 is a very expensive item according to Greenburg' pocket price guide, $160.00 and up.

I have a prewar set that the tender isn't listed as a possible variation but I know the set is all original.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by sir james I on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:14 AM

A lot of stores would swap a set car if the customer requested it. A car for a car meant a sale and values were the same.

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bix
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Posted by bix on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:28 PM

Thanks Lee. 

That's what I thought, because I've read somewhere that substtutions were sometimes made if they were running low at the end of production runs.  This set is practically brand new.  There was a smoke pellet still in the engine and hadn't even been fully dissolved.  Lucky Me.

Bix

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Posted by phillyreading on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:13 PM

Hello Bix,

What color is the locomotive & what number is on the bottom of the tender? Need to know the whole number on the underside of the tender, examples 6026W, 233W, 1130T-500, or 234W. Greenberg's price guide gives me at least three possible tenders to go with that engine and the dollar values are differant.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
bix
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Posted by bix on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:01 PM

It is the 6026 Santa Fe style tender with the number heat stamped on the side.  There are no markings on the bottom.

Bix

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:42 AM

Hello Bix,

According to Greenburg' price guide for 2010 the price value is between $63 and $155.00. $63 being for in good condition and $155 for being in excellant condition. Good condition means very few scratches if any and the paint needs to be in good shape as well, excellent means it needs to look like it just came from the factory and be in great running condition as well.

Hopefully you don't have to sell that set.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by cwburfle on Thursday, August 19, 2010 1:06 PM

According to Greenburg' price guide for 2010 the price value is between $63 and $155.00. $63 being for in good condition and $155 for being in excellant condition.

Perhaps if the set had the "correct" boxcar.
I'd expect his Alaskan 6464 boxcar to sell for $155 or more in excellent condtion all by itself. (Or am I completely out of date?)
IMHO, the next car of interest would be the Allis Chalmers. They are by no means rare, but they typically have the brakewheels broken off. If the brakewheel is intact, then it is a relatively tough car to find.
A lot of folks look down on the 2037, but I think you would be hard pressed to find a better running engine for a small to medium sized layout.

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Posted by phillyreading on Friday, August 20, 2010 1:03 PM

According to Greenberg's priceguide the Allis Chalmers car is worth between $35 & $70 for the dark or medium orange base, and the light orange base is worth between $40 & $100.

At a train show or anywhere else that you try to sell these items at, the buyer will always tell you that he will give you 30% less than the book price so that he can make money on the resale of the item. Remember these are basically ball-park figuires and you will not get the book price for anything when you sell it.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by cwburfle on Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:42 AM

If you want to sell your train set, shop it around. You can take it to a train show, and ask any number of tableholders to make an offer.
If your Alsakan Boxcar is in nice shape, folks interested in the car will make higher offers on the whole set just to get it. While I mentioned that undamaged Allis Chalmers cars are tough to find, nobody is going to get too excited about it, or anything else in your set.
Whatever you do, I'd recommend against selling the boxcar seperately.

bix
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Posted by bix on Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:21 AM

I'm probably going to sell the set as is.  I already have a 2037, and the trestle car.  The Alaska box doesn't thrill me so the only thing I would want is the A/C, so I can live without it.  I also got the 3419 copter, the 445 switch tower, and the195 light tower in the same lot.  The copter is really the only thing I wanted.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:28 AM

Nice set you may wish later you didn't but to me I would sell it piece by piece as you would probbaly end up with more than as a set.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Posted by cwburfle on Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:15 AM

Since the set owners wants the Allis Chalmers car, I'd keep it and break up the set too.

I only meant that if he wanted to sell to whole thing, that I wouldn't let someone cherry-pick the Alaskan.

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Posted by Brewman1973 on Sunday, March 9, 2014 12:02 AM

I just found this thread.  I got the 1621 ws set for Christmas when I was almost 5 and my set also has the 6464-825 Alaska Box Car.  I live in Tacoma, so I wonder if being on the West Coast had anything to do with getting the different box car.  I still have the set, but none of the boxes. I am thinking I got the set in December 1959.   

Dave B from Tacoma, WA
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Posted by cwburfle on Sunday, March 9, 2014 6:26 AM

Interesting that two people now have reported getting the Alaska boxcar.

I doubt being on the West Coast affected the set make up, but who knows.
Lionel probably ran out of the other car, and substituted the Alaska.

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Posted by David Barker on Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 PM

It appears Lionel made the substitution.  I would sell it complete!

Variations can mean $$$$

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