Scrapping protosounds

[Anonymous]

Has anyone ripped the rolling laptop out of a Mth 20-2172-1 Dash9 and replaced it with a electronic e unit? Bought this one used and having the old 3 clanks at startup which I believe is an indication of a scrambled board? Any comments would be helpful..

[lionelsoni]

I have pulled the computers out of my Railking Big Boy and Big Blow; but I replaced them with Lionel electromechanical e-units. I have not regretted it.

[Anonymous]

Where could I get some more info on how to go about this ? I am very handy but do not have a degree in electrical engineering.

[eZAK]

Try calling TAS or going to their web site.

[lionelsoni]

Get a bridge rectifier, like Radio Shack 276-1146. Wire the frame and pickup to the terminals marked with the tilde (~). Wire the + terminal of the bridge rectifier to the coil terminal on the side of the e-unit. That terminal should already be connected into the fingers that wipe on the drum. The other side of the coil is soldered to a rivet that can be connected to the to the frame of the e-unit, which is normally connected to the frame of the locomotive, with the lever that enables and disables the e-unit. Do something to that lever so that it cannot touch the rivet. Instead, wire the - terminal of the bridge rectifier to the rivet and to the green wire from the e-unit fingers. Then connect the blue and yellow wires from the e-unit fingers to the motors.

Some options:

If the e-unit buzzes, you can put an electrolytic capacitor, about 5000 microfarads rated at 25 volts or more (Radio Shack 272-1022), across the + and - terminals of the bridge rectifier, matching the + and - symbols.

You can wire a SPST switch in series with the e-unit coil, to duplicate the function of the lever that you disabled, locating it anywhere that you like on the locomotive.

You will need to use the special e-unit model that has a spring inside if you cannot or don't want to mount your e-unit upright.

If the locomotive has two motors, you can wire them in series to cut the speed in half.

You can get directional lighting by wiring the lamp between the + terminal of the bridge rectifier and either the blue or yellow wire, depending on which direction you want it lit.

[Anonymous]

Bob ..Thanks very much for all the good info..Tim

[Anonymous]

I have two Premier Line Steamers boxed up and ready to head out to the repair shop. I thought about dumping Protosounds and just installing an e unit but I decided to upgrade the PS1 engine with a blown reverse board to PS2 and replace the blown reverse board in the PS2 Steamer and sell them both on ebay. I've only had problems with blown boards on MTH Premier Steamers....nothing else...and I've had it with them so...out they go...to get repaired and then to get sold. John

[Anonymous]

First of all,I'm not one to re-invent the wheel
Go to MTH website
Double left click Service ,go to PS1 software/battery issues
Figure it out,if that doesn't work,get back to me
What kind of transformer are you using also?

[Anonymous]

I assume you're responding to my post Joe. My transformer (S) are MTH Z4000. My PS1 problem is not a battery problem. It is a blown reverse board. I know because I've taken it to a dealer who does MTH Repairs. My PS2 Steamer has the same symptoms...it will not go into reverse. I am quite sure it is a blown reverse board. I've been through all the reset to factory default drills...lock out drills etc and etc. John Harding

[wallyworld]

When I was a kid, my dad bought an American Flyer set with a K5 Pacific to replace the Marx set I had fried. I was thinking about that little piston and cam operation that was in that engine -it was completely mechcanical-100% reliable and made a very credible chuffing sound. I wish someone was bright enough to make this a more affordable sound alternative in today's trains-at least it would'nt cost an arm and a leg. I am seriously thinking of proactively ripping out my PS1 boards instead of waiting for them to melt down on their own terms. Please don't suggest an upgrade to PS2 or I'll get cranky about the whole subject.

[Anonymous]

I have replaced many scrambeled boards by both MTH and QSI. QSI won't even return a phone call. They refer you to a place charging you $25 for a sound ROM chip and at least $25 to install it in the board you sent them. If you send a whole tender/engine add $30.MTH now sells a reset chip available in maybe March. Where were they when you needed them? I'm going back to Lionel. I have yet to hear of a battery problem with them.

[ben10ben]

Even easier than an electromechanical e-unit is Lionel's electronic e-unit. It's $13 from the service department, and is very easy to install. It's also silent, and has a reset to forward feature after a brief powerdown to make it easy to lash up.

[Anonymous]

ben10ben, do you have a part number for the Lionel electronic E unit? Sounds like something I would be very interested in getting. Can I use them on my postwar alco units and MPC GP-9 units?

[tadowler]

I recently bought some Lionel Santa Fe F-3's (18117). They are blue and were made in the early 90's. I tried to quiet the e-unit by installing the bridge rectifier from Radio Shack mentioned above.

That helped but it still buzzed a little so I added the capictor mentioned above. This really helped, however after about 10 minutes of running everything stopped and my locomotive was hot.

The e-unit no long works - I beleive I fried it. Any suggestions why this happened? Also, do you think I hurt the Pullmor motors? Since the e-nit is fried I was thinking of installing an Dallee electronic e-unit.

Thanks!

- Todd

[Anonymous]

You can descramble the chip yourself with a kit MTH sells for about $25. It comes with a chip puller and directions and is reuseable. The engine is not permanently damaged. After it is descrambled I would recommend installing a BCR to replace the battery.

If you just want an E unit,Dallee and others make replacements. I also have some from Williams engines I removed as I run most of these forward only on an automated part of my layout. Be glad to send you one.

Dale Hz

[tadowler]

Thanks Dale! I will send you an e-mail with my contact information.

There is no chip to that I could unscramble - this engine uses a mechanical e-unit to feed 2 Pullmor motors. I suspect that the mechanical e-unit saw too much voltage when I installed the capictor and that is why it no longer works.

I think a Williams electronic e-unit would work - however if anyone know if the these two Pullmors will draw more power than the e-unit can handle please let me know.

- Todd

[mpzpw3]

Your AC motors WILL fry the Williams e-unit!! Williams uses DC can motors, not AC open field motors that postwar Lionel and some modern era Lionel use. A bridge rectifier is used to change the AC from the transformer, to DC for the can motors. I believe Lionel and Dallee both offer electronic e-units for AC open-field motors. You might look into Lionel pn 40-0105-001. My manual shows it for a single AC motor, but it may be the same one used on dual motored units, I don't know. I do know Dallee and Lionel do make electronic e-units for your application.

[msacco]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

I have pulled the computers out of my Railking Big Boy and Big Blow; but I replaced them with Lionel electromechanical e-units. I have not regretted it.

Bob,
Nice move. Heck we'll all be doing this with the modern stuff in another 25 years or so.
I still have a working proto 1 engine. Maybe when the times comes I will make the retro upgrade as well.

Mike S.

[lionelsoni]

Todd, you're right about the voltage. Using DC increases the e-unit current because the coil reactance goes to zero at DC, leaving only the resistance to limit the current. Then the capacitor bumps the voltage up. I hadn't had any trouble with this at the time I posted that stuff above. But since then, I damaged an e-unit when I wired the motors of two NW2s in series, effectively doubling the e-unit voltage, on top of everything else. I put an automotive lamp (89) in series with the coil of the (repaired) e-unit for a ballast.

I'm sorry my old advice caused you trouble.

[tadowler]

No worries Bob - I consider it all part of the learning process. I re-read some of your old threads and you talked about starting with a smaller capacitor and working your way up to the 5000 capacitor - I will try that next time.

I really enjoy reading all of your posts and have learned a bunch from you on this topic. Heck, I might even muster up the courage to use a bridge rectifier (and maybe a capacitor) to quiet and smooth out the action of my old 3472 milk car.

- Todd