Lionel 700E Outside Third Rail Pickup (1937 - 1941)
Don U. TCA 73-5735
I have 2 of the 700E outside rail shoes and they are both different from that one. The center section is the same but the outer parts are flat and more winglike rather than stainless steel rods. Both of my pickup shoes are slightly different from each other although completely interchangeable. One went on the engine and the other on the tender. I have a couple of dozen shoes from Walthers that are very different from the 700E pieces but they all do the same thing and work the same way.
I thought I'd bring this topic back as I found some pictures of the Duke Energy display. You can still go see this outside rail layout running every holiday season. I am still of the opinion that the third rail being on the outside stands out less visually than on the inside.
These 2 pictures are from John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. While you can see his outside rail in these shots, you can also see his stud rail branchline as well which was nothing more than simple nails hammered down between the ties with a wire connecting them underneath.
That is one amazing layout!
Makes me consider selling all my Altas three rail.
I think that outside rail is gorgeous and I'm very proud of the outside rail track that I have handlaid. I have a couple dozen outside rail pickups that I bought on ebay so if I ever had the urge to go all outside rail, I'd have the pickups to convert the engines with. Some engines are very easy to do. Others are a little bit more difficult but not too bad. I will say that with my stud rail project that I am having more issues with under engine sliders that clip onto rollers than I ever would by using outside rail. Outside rail just might be easier!
Outside rail used to be fairly easy to install. Some did it the hard way and others made it sound difficult but it doesn't have to be. Back in the day you could buy track such as Gargraves that had every 5th tie longer to hold an outside rail chair. You could probably still order it this way if so desired. Outside rail chairs came in several styles. The type that I have are very easy to install. I have a track gauge that has an outside rail guide on it. The chair installs in the gauge. You center the chair over a long tie and then run a small nail or spike down through the hollow center of it to secure it. Then you move on. The outside rail slides into the chair and you just crimp it in place. Simple. No one makes these anymore though. There may be an alternative in Europe though that isn't quite as easy but allows code 100 rail to be used for the outside rail. No crimping necessary but you wouldn't have a gauge that could hold them in place while you attach them. The above layouts were done the hard way. They used small brass screws as the chairs and these were inserted into the ties. Then a rail was hand soldered to each screw. Very laborious and I'm sure the main reason why so many still feel it is difficult to do. It is if you do it that way!
I really do wish some people today would attempt this technique. They might be surprised how easy it actually is. It is just so neat to see. I know some say it isn't prototypical in most cases but then again neither is a center rail. Besides, you can just say that your steam engine is heated with an electric heating element that gets power from the outside rail and that the coal load is actually used to heat a furnace to keep the crew warm in the winter!
The more I check out those pix, the more I like this concept. Even knowing what to look for, everything seems to blend so easily.
There are videos of this layout on youtube. Just do a search for Duke Energy train.
Although I have many pictures of Frank Ellison's Delta Lines, they are all in black and white. This one however is the only color one that I know of. I'm sure they exist somewhere but this the only color image I have. In it you can see the Ob Long Box company. Notice that the siding does not have an outside rail. An engine can not go this far down the track but it also never needs to. You only need the outside rail where the engine will be. Since an engine almost always has a pickup on or near the front and back of it and you only need one to make contact at any time, even the engine can go quite far down before it can't get power so depending on the length of the siding, an outside rail may only be needed a short way into it or on practically none of it at all. You can see the mainline to the left and it does have the outside rail.
Frank's rail was also large by today's standards. No one quite knows what it is but we know for a fact that it isn't Code 148 as it wasn't made until at least the 60's if not later. We do know that it was ordinary steel. In his book from 1955 he mentions that NMRA standard is Code 172 and that no one makes it in a smaller size which he found unfortunate. We also know that his layout isn't code 172 as it didn't make it's appearance until after WWII and the Delta Lines was started in 1936. It is possible that he mixed rail sizes though as the rail sizes that were available before WWII were different than those after WWII. He could have had plenty of bulk rail from before the war that he continued using but no one knows that code it is. It could have been as heavy as code 198 although I doubt it. His outside rail could have been one of 2 things. He mentions that code 100 HO rail is a standard outside rail in O scale but 1/8" brass square was also common back then. A third option would have been a special shape like the outside rail that I have which is not square and is wider than 1/8" but his doesn't look like this. John Armstrong's layout by comparison used code 172 steel main rails and code 100 steel outside rail.
Frank's ties were 1/8" tall x 1/4" deep x 2-1/4" long hand cut wood ties. With the exception of length, these ties are slightly too large. The longer ties for the 3rd rail were 2-3/4" long. These ties were spaced 3" apart from each other with 5 normal length ties evenly spaced between them. He did vary this a little bit as in some places he had only 4 short ties between the long ones and in other places he had 6. On sidings he used Bristol board for ties rather than wood as it was thinner and simulated being buried in the ground farther. He used crushed sifted rock for ballast on mainlines and cinders on sidings. He didn't spike every tie but rather every several. He did have some spots with more detail than others and in some places he simulated fish plates and tie plates with painted and glued on cardboard. He was very creative.
I have started a small new outside rail layout for my old equipment. It uses all hand laid track. Code 172 steel rail, individual tie plates, spikes, weathering, etc. Anyways here's a section of it is as of tonight. The outside rails are not in place in these pictures but they will be soon. You can see the longer ties that are in place to accomodate the third rail chairs. As I get more done, I'll update pictures. This layout is a hybrid. It will be able to run in pure 2 rail mode or with the flip of a switch will run pure 3 rail. The taller rail will accomodate 3 rail wheels and with nothing more than an added outside rail pickup I can run anything. What do you guys think?
I'm still playing with outside 3rd rail. I have really come to love it. I have even started a Yahoo group called "Outside 3rd Rail Modeling" where I am going to compile every piece of information, videos, pictures, etc that I have and hope yet to find. If you are a person who is interested or just fascinated in outside 3rd rail, come on over.
The Central Connecting Railroad is the outside 3rd rail club in Brooklyn, New York. It is a very old club, and all their steam, diesel, and subway cars have been modified. Their website shows a small selection of their rolling stock and trackwork. I have many pictures of the layout, but no photo-hosting account to upload them to as yet.
Larry
The only pictures I've ever seen of that layout are the few they have on that website. I'd love to see more.
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