MTH lemon & terrible customer service

[Anonymous]

My fondest memory as a boy was the endless hours of fun I had with my Lionel set and I wanted to pass this experience to my 8 year old son. For his birthday 9 months ago I purchased a MTH RTR PS2 set.

I am 9 months into the worse customer service experience I have ever had. It would not run correctly so I called MTH and described the problem. They requested the engine, tender, transformer & lock-on be returned. It was repaired and returned to me in non working condition. After more phone calls, they wanted me to ship the lock-on, again. You guessed it – it still didn’t work. I finally told them I was not paying for any more shipping and I want the entire set, track and all, returned and repaired. I was assured it was placed on “high priority”, but using the tracking number, I noticed it set at MTH for 2 weeks before they confirmed the package opened. They called me early last week to say it was repaired and ready for return. As of today, it still sits there and no one knows why it hasn’t shipped. I asked if this is normal and was assured it isn’t. When I asked what they would do to right such an egregious wrong, he said with a hint of sarcasm, “yeah, ______ said you wanted a box of chocolates” (I’ll omit her name).

My knowledge and experience with trains pales in comparison to this forum. I believed that MTH has a quality product, but now I have doubts. The sheer arrogance of the customer service expressed on numerous calls is inexcusable. Then to insult your customer by saying, “well, it was working just find when it left here” or “you sent us the track but didn’t punch out any tabs for your lock-on” implying I’m clueless. I had to tell him which track to look at again. What is so hard to understand about going over and above to assist a customer who just bought a lemon?

Tim
Mt Pleasant, SC

[lionelsoni]

To repeat an earlier post: I haven't bought any MTH in a couple of years; but the last stuff I bought had problems--wheels loose on the axles and pinched wires.

[Roger Bielen]

I've recently acquired a couple of MTH signals, their electronics quality leaves a lot to be desired and unless your using their ITAD for activation the instructions are next to useless.

[brianel027]

These stories on poor MTH service have started becomming as common as they were with Lionel a few years back. Sad really, because Mike Wolf deserves a lot of credit for pushing the hobby forward and constantly raising the bar. I'm sure MTH has had some stress on their budget with the cost of DCS development and the relocation to a new facility in Korea. One could safely assume that are trying to save money by keeping service staff to the essential minimum... but that's just me speculating.
I've wished for years that MTH would take some of the smaller Railking items, banner them under the Rugged Rails line and issue sets/engines with just the bare basics and no extra electronic features. Their basic construction is already above par. And certainly Williams Electric Trains has found an audience with the "bare basics" approach. The Railking SD-90Mac from 1999 is a nice sized 027 diesel with a modern look and NO ONE else BUT MTH has issued that kind of engine with that low height that looks good on a small layout. I've been hoping to see that one in Norfolk Southern again, but with streamlined electronic features. I'm certain there is an audience for this kind of equipment. They already have the tooling and the dies. Mike Wolf stated in his CTT interview some years ago that his dies were made for longevity. And I know Mike loves trains and loves this hobby. The more variety in offerings and prices, the better. But it does need to be backed up too. So it's kind of sad to see MTH slip from their status as the quality and variety leader to what appears to be a keep-up with others status.
Tim I hope things work out in the end for you. Keep in mind, if MTH doesn't make you happy, K-Line and Lionel are more than eager to have your business. And overall, K-Line's service from the very beginning has been considered the best in the toy train industry. K-Line VP Nick Ladd has long stated that service is a priority for K-Line. Although K-Line dropped their toll-free number a while ago, I'm sure for cost-cutting reasons also.

brianel, Agent 027

[Anonymous]

Reading this topic and currently having much frustration with my first modern, non-post war train set (MTH) that I bought this last Christmas I just have to chime in. I've not been in a mood for model/toy trains since because of this and hence my lack of posts here since before Christmas.

(fyi... I also posted my problem and frustration on the OGR forum in a similar topic about recent MTH train failures and the whole topic was deleted by the moderator there. So kudos for CTT for letting people air there frustrations and bad experiences)

Well. My brand new 30-4049-1 MTH Railking "Blue Comet" set arrived a few days before Christmas. On Christmas Eve I was putting it together for the family to enjoy along with our other festivities but I soon discovered after it was all set up and ready to go that the engine and tender were dead. Dead as a door nail.
Not a single sound, spark of light or any hint of motion from the engine or tender was made. I'd followed the directions to the letter setting it up and I even changed the battery in the Proto2 tender just in case that would help but it did not. while the set looked beautiful all that it would happen was the lights inside the passenger cars would work in conunction with the throttle setting. Ooooooh! <sigh>

So on the first day they reopened for biz , Tuesday Dec 30th, I received my RMA with what sounded like a sincere apology and a reassuring "priority one" repair classification. And on that very same day it went out to MTH via Priority mail. I sent the engine and tender each seperately wrapped with acid free paper and two layers of bubble wrap - all inside a good sized USPS box with delivery confirmation and insurance added on. I also took pictures of it for while the set was dead it did not have a single scratch or mark of any kind on it and I'll be curious as to how it comes back to me.

Anyway. It arrived MTH on the morning of Jan 2nd....yet thier website continues to show it "in transit" to thier service center. Huh? Though it was delicered? Well USPS does confirm it was delivered on the 2nd but three phone calls to MTH (two last week and one today) and two assurances of getting a call back on this (none of which I've gotten) and MTH has yet to be able to confirm they have it.

My main worry is that they did not lose it or that the USPS didn't delvier it to the wrong address. I just want to make sure it is in thier hands. I can wait for the repair no problem. However I have to admit that after reading on the net about so many problems with repairs not being completely done I'm losing faith that this will come back problem free.

My first non-post war set experience could definately have been better. And since the defective engine saga continues I hope it doesn't take a turn for the worse.

Just my .02


Ken

[Anonymous]

MTH really needs to explain their startup procedure better. The first time I use my PS1 engine each Christmas, it needs to sit on the track with the power "on" for 15 to 30 minutes to charge the NiCad battery enough for the engine electronics to run. The PS2 engines have a charging jack, so I assume they also need some charging time before they run. Once charged, they run the whole Christmas season without any special charging.

[clinchfieldfan]

I must be in the minority of forum members here. I have only had good experiences with MTH's service department. I never paid for shipping, they sent UPS shipping labels to my house for the item to be returned. The turnaround for my engine was even fast. On the other hand Lionel's service department has been a pain to deal with. I bought a Lionel E-6 set and the engines have been in their service dept. longer than on my layout. A cog in one of the power truck fell out. The cog was pressed back into the truck once by an authorized service center. It soon fell back out, luckily no damage was incurred to the engine's electronics during the derailment caused by the cog.
The engine was sent back to Lionel with the request that the entire truck be replaced. All they did was press the cog back in, and you guessed it, it fell out again. It is now being worked on fof the third time. I have my fingers crossed that it will be repaired correctly this time. The turnaround is extremely slow. I made my mind up that this is the final Lionel product I will buy. When the engine comes back I will probably sell it and try to find the MTH equivalent.

[Anonymous]

I been reading all complains in this forum about MTH. I think that most of the problems are base on poor manual from MTH and all does Wireless Starter Kits.

Two years ago I started in this hobby. I acquired 2 Proto-Sound 2 and one Loco sound sets. The first thing that MTH must let you know is the battery inside the PS2 Units; it has to be charge so the unit works perfectly. Another problem in does sets was the wireless control. The wireless set was sending some times noise to the new command control of the new PS2 Engines that make them behave abnormal. They fix this problem removing that wireless control from all future starter sets.

I have good experience with MTH. I just acquire the DCS system and the features with the PS2 are incredible. I like all this new technology. Like everything that is new, people will have resistance to it but change is good

I will love to see better manuals and tutorials, for example the TIU and AIU manual lack of information. I will love to see tutorial and additional info of how to do think. Especially for a person that is new on this hobby.
[:)]

[Anonymous]

Even more importantly, MTH has alienated lots of dealers.

My belief is that there is far more emphasis on sales and marketing than there is on quality control and customer service. Electric trains (I hesitate to call expensive engines toys) as a business is hardly alone here.

When I have trouble, the first place I go is to the seller or my local (?) service person. I'd rather pay locally than get jerked around elswhere. Ted

[superwarp1]

From what I have heard from other people the only place to get MTH repaired is at one of the new service centers set up by MTH. Davis trains for example. Second, MTH better wise up or they will be in the back of the pack. Too many good train manufactors in O gauge now. No need to purchase MTH when there are other choices.

Gary

[Anonymous]

I wish I'd known that now Superwarp1 :) It honestly should not be that way at all IMO and this experience has definitley tainted my outlook on modern, electronic based trains. And I know Lionel can be just as bad. Heck they come with very sub-par smoke units as standard equipment. MTH and Lionel are not likely to be getting any of my $$ in the foreseable future. I'll just stick with post war equipment and if I want the extra sounds I'll buy a Digital Dynamics kit ($80) and install it.

Well the latest update for my situation is that MTH's website today shows that they have "found" my loco and tender - after it had sat in thier site for two weeks. And I never got that call back as promised, twice. But lucky me, I'm now in "que" for repair.

(p.s. re: battery. I'd anticipated a run down battery so I'd had the proper Radio Shack replacement charged up and standing by. Putting that in did not help at all in my case (PS2)

[Anonymous]

I've read numerous horror stories about MTH/Rail king products lately, poor quality control, poor customer service, items not lasting etc. While MTH does manufacture some very nice products, I hope that these reported quality and service issues are improved soon. The bad press has caused me to shy away from their rolling stock and engines. As a result, I am just buying their plastic buildings right . Figure that not much can go wrong with them except the lightbulb which is easy to fix.
On a positive note I must say that some of their structures are just beautiful. I believe these are not true O scale structures but they look really nice.

[Anonymous]

I have had problems with my 2-8-0 engine. The first was right out of the box. Sent it back to the dealer and he replaced it. Now I am having problems again, be it different problems. Now it just sits and collects dust. I will stick to my "basic" Williams. They run all the time and never have given me problems.

Bill

[Anonymous]

got a bad goose at a trade show had one helda of a time programing that D&RG galloping goose.....im sorry but that programing manual was like 30 somepages of electo mechanical engineering B.S. I WANTED SOMETHING TO JUST RUN IN CIRCLE AN WHISTLE.... i install top grade high effenientcy furnaces for a living an the progam an service sheet is like simple thow dip switch a d &f an go this little train was like setting up a mission to mars. the customer service guy was a bit rude like the average schmo should be able to follow this book....IF THEY WANT TO WRITE MANUALS LIKE THIS then maybe they should be hosting programing seminars at the train shows when there in town....OF CORSE that is one thing that the train shows lack is product manufactor representation ,,ive rairly seen actual manufactors promoting there equipment or product lines at the train shows....be neat any comments

[msacco]

funny how varied these responses are. My experience with MTH have been good. Two problems and two RAs to cover shipping back.
K-line is another story. I will never purchase anything K-line. I ordered a few years back the GG1 with TMCC. The first time I sent it back the railsounds weren't working and the next time I received it I had just gotten TMCC and to my surprise found they had never even installed the TMCC board. BAck again. And it took forever to get it back too.

mike s.

[Anonymous]

I had similar problems with the service , I sent an engine back 3 times and every time it was returned it ran once around the layout and stopped never to run again. When it was returned it was all broken and they had to send me a new shell. I called and was on the phone for over an hour making adjustments that did not work then returned it again. The repairs and the phone calle were all at my expense. After the last time it was finally running and i sold it. The new owner had the same luck with the service department. Now it is an expensive paper weight. I have not purchased an engine from MTH after that , Now i only buy Atlas,K-Line and an ocassional Lionel.

[superwarp1]

I have had luck talking to reps at Lionel. MTH was good five years ago but now don't give a darn. No experience with AtlasO or Kline. The only true customer service is 3rdrail. Scott and Gary at 3rdrail are the greatest and if all manufactors make the same engine I'm interested in 3rdrail will get my money.

Gary

[spodwo]

Well - the Lionel and MTH items I have run fine - including the old PS1 items I have [3 of those]. The only problem I had of my 12 engines was a K-Line E8. Lasted 30 minutes at Christmas. I had to send it in. Easy to do and quick turnaround but I had to pay the shipping there...I guess that is the price for mailorder.

[Anonymous]

"I guess that is the price for mailorder"

I agree to a certain extent. And IMO that's a reality for those in this hobby in this day and age.

Unfortunately for me the decision is out of my hands as to where I can buy trains from. This isn't 1954 and there is only one train store local to me now. However the owners gruff attitude and poor manners has turned me off. I refuse to go there. As a result I'm left with one "hobby" shop that still even carries anything for model trains. Most hobby stores here don't anymore as interests lay with computers, models and RC equipment. Even so the one shop nearby carries trains and they do so only in a general sense. Meaning they have a lot of diverse selections to accomodate several guages. But a whole set? That's special order only and MSRP. Why is it special order? Because a Railking or Lionel starter set takes up more shelf space than four RC cars and that stuff sells so they aren't going to tie up thier money or the shelf and stock room space with dust collectors. Simply because toy and model trains aren't the gleam in kids eyes anymore and they don't sell like they did 50 years ago.
So for me (and many others) mail order is about the only way I'll be able to get what I want. And if comes in defective I still have to deal with warranty repair one way or the other.

IMO if you have a local dealer you love to buy from and who handles defectives nicely, perhaps even is a repair center, then I say count your blessings for others, such as I, do not have that luxury.

Ken

[dmestan]

Being new to the hobby and reading all of these posts about poor quality and service makes me nervous about my next purchase. Being a test engineer for a major communications company, I'm immediatley wondering "do they test these things before they leave the factory???" Have most of the bad experiences been locos that ran for a while then died, or were dead right out of the box? I had a similar experience this Christmas. I was up until 2 AM Christmas Eve trying to get my new Lionel Pennsy Flyer set running. The loco would run for few seconds, then die. I'd push down the front, it would run a little more, then die again. There went the surpirse that Santa brought this year. I took it back to the store I bought it from with obvious frustration. Luckly the store is also a service center. They fixed it (bad contact), but I had to leave it and come back later to get it. They seemed to know what they're doing, but I thought the store owner was jerk. I guess it's better to put up with bad attitude and the repair done then suffer mail-in service some of you have experienced.

[Anonymous]

I don't think there is a QC process in place as we imagine it. IMO all that might be done is a visual check for obvious defects and paint problems. I'm not even sure they are doing that.

Just a quick end of story for my problem. (Hope it's end of story)

MTH returned the unit last week. It works great as far as I can tell and we had it's christmas Eve run a month later. While the set is a lot of fun I'm going to think twice before buying any more modern electronic dominated engines. If it works. Great! But if it does not, and IMO there is a HIGH probablility of that, then the aggravation and turn-off is too high.
Anyway. the Proto2 sounds are phenominal and the locomotive smokes so much that after a half hour of running we have to open the living room windows. (Using JT's Christmas scented smoke fluid btw). But copious smoke... That's just as it should be. I can't even begin to guess why Lionel continues to stick with the pathetic smoke generators that they use - in all levels of thier products. Lionel smoke unit output is impotent. No other way to describe it.
And we loved the lighting! The headlight and the passenger car interiors are nice and bright. A joy to watch when the house lights are out and the train is running around the floor.

So it turns out to be a good ending to a bad story. I do hope things improve at MTH but fot the foreseeable future I'll wait till I see a steady stream of rave reviews about thier customer service and a sharp decline in reports of product defects before making any further MTH purchases.

Ken