Oversized GP38 in Santa Fe RTR set.

[Anonymous]

I have a question about Lionel's GP38 that came in my Santa Fe RTR set. I believe its the SouthWest Set.  It looks really oversized compared to the rest of the rolling stock and was wondering if one of Lionels traditional engines like the GP20 would be more in scale with the rest of the rolling stock. I think it could be because of the speaker at the bottom. Also looking some of the Williams engines as well.

 

[otftch]

The Gp-38 is actually a  smaller (shorter) than it should be.The body is variation on the Gp-9 lionel has used for years.I believe the height is about right.

                                                                      Ed

[LS1Heli]

Oversized? The GP38 is a traditional engine. Thats not scale man.

[pbjwilson]

I think everyone who is stuck in the traditional vs. scale conundrum should switch to S scale. Its smaller, fits a 4X 8 nicely, and everything is proportioned right. 

[Anonymous]

Hmm ok. I was just a little confused since I seen photos of other Lionel diesel sets were the engine looked pretty scale but I forgot to take into account the traditional and scale factors.

[brianel027]

n_dazzle, you sound like you might be new to the hobby. Many of the locos currently cataloged under the "traditional" are actually fairly close to scale size. In today's diverse product market, the term "traditional" can refer as much to size as details, and electronic operational features. Many of todays' "traditional" trains were tooled up decades ago through the MPC period of Lionel up to the early years of the Kughn/LTI era.

The GP-38 basically uses the same frame and many components of the GP9, GP-7, GP-20 and U36B. These locos all share a basic 14 inch length with a pretty close height to prototypical. Where the size discrepency becomes obvious is when you take a "traditionally" sized box car (which is about 3-1/4 inch high compared to about 3-1/2 to 3-3/4 for one more scale sized) and run it behind a loco that is 3-3/4 inches high.

There is also the ride height to consider: Lionel's sheet metal frame has a dimple going downward. Combine that with the space above the actual truck side (which accomodates the height of the truck mounted motor) and you see that these locos ride a little high as compared to a Williams GP-9 for example.

Diesel locos that will look good as is with your traditional cars are: the K-Line MP-15, S-2 Switcher and the K-Line Alco Fa, the Lionel NW-2, Lionel Alco FA, the Williams GP9, NW-2, Alco FA and Centercab Switcher (which is oversized like the Lionel one as compared to the real thing, but the Williams one rides lower than the Lionel version), the early MTH Railking F3 and early Railking SD45 (the F3 is now under the Rugged Rails banner), the MTH Rugged Rails SD90MAC, the RMT BEEP, the RMT RDC car called the BUDDY, and the forthcoming RMT S-4 BANG (which is their version of the K-Line S-2).

This would be a topic for another thread, but I have shortened the height of the shells of several Lionel and K-Line MP-15 locos. The Lionel U36B looks so much better with a shortened shell height... it actually makes the engine look bigger when running with traditionally sized rolling stock.

[Anonymous]

Thanks allot for the help. I was thinking of a Williams GP9 for a replacement too. I am pretty new since I got the set last winter. It just looked a little odd with that engine a little bit wide and taller than the other cars. Besides I do like GP9s and 7s.

[RR Redneck]

Oversized? The GP38 is a traditional engine. Thats not scale man.

Yeah, good luck findin an RTR trainset that has scale trains for under $400.

[SchemerBob]

I have the Chessie Diesel Freight set from 2002, and actually I thought the same thing when I first ran it for the first time: that the GP38 was larger than it should be (it is really noticable when the boxcar is right behind it). However, when I run the loco with Lionel Standard O freight cars, I am really impressed at how great it looks - truth is, the GP38 is very close to being a scale engine; its just that the O27 freight cars are much smaller than you might think. Lionel's traditional diesels (GP38, GP9, GP20, RS-3) are like MTH's RailKing line: some engines are scale, some are not - just as long as they can get through O27 or O31 curves. The GeeP's and RS-3's are not very big locomotives to start with, so they are probably not very much smaller than they would be in scale. Because they are close to scale, they make the O27 cars look small.

Though I know there are better locomotives out there, it would be kind of neat to have the Conrail GP20 in the recent catalog. What's even better is that you can add a TrainSounds boxcar behind it, and that's all you really need to turn it into a "have-everything" locomotive. It's a way to still have everthing yet not having to blow your money all at once. Better yet, if the sound boards ever malfunction, you'll still have your locomotive...