Jared.... I have 7 Williams engines. The only steam engine I have is the very nice S-2 Steam Turbine. I like the F-3's , they offer also. Their Trainmmaster is a great puller. The GG1, that I have, is one of my favorites. The choice is yours.
Chuck
I like their four axle diesels the best i.e. GP-9's, F-3's,GP-38's etc. They track really well over my rough track. The GG-1 I have seems to be more tempermental about track conditions. The six axle diesels do pretty well too. I have no experiance with their steam engines. On the negative side, my williams E-9's have trouble going through my lionel 0-72 switches. They de-rail when the points are in the curved position.
George
Here it is...
http://www.williamstrains.com/
DJSpanky wrote: Blueberryhill RR wrote: Jared.... I have 7 Williams engines. The only steam engine I have is the very nice S-2 Steam Turbine. I like the F-3's , they offer also. Their Trainmmaster is a great puller. The GG1, that I have, is one of my favorites. The choice is yours.Chuck, thanks for posting the link. Would you consider their engines traditional size or scale?
Blueberryhill RR wrote: Jared.... I have 7 Williams engines. The only steam engine I have is the very nice S-2 Steam Turbine. I like the F-3's , they offer also. Their Trainmmaster is a great puller. The GG1, that I have, is one of my favorites. The choice is yours.
Chuck, thanks for posting the link. Would you consider their engines traditional size or scale?
Williams has both. And they tell you what it is. They have a scale Hudson and scale diesels. They also have a scale FP-45, which I have. Nice.
They offer both traditional and scale GG-1's.
Very nice selection.
Chuck: I was looking at their products the other day, and you can get some great engines that are relatively inexpensive.
Can you compare Lionel with Williams? Why the difference in price?
Kurt
kpolak wrote: Chuck: I was looking at their products the other day, and you can get some great engines that are relatively inexpensive.Can you compare Lionel with Williams? Why the difference in price? Kurt
Kurt....That's a good question about price. I'm sure someone has a lengthy explanation, but my answer would be that they have lower costs and have established a better market. But Williams products are comparable with Lionel and I am quite satisfied with them. I also own some Lionel engines and cars.
Jared.
Maybe I can add just a little to what Chuck has said. I have one Williams diesel, one steam loco, and one boxcar. The diesel seems to be "scale-size." At least it is larger than I expected. The boxcar is also larger than "traditional" size and the measurements in the catalog seem less-than-correct to me. The steamer is a simulation of the PW Lionel 2056 and is about the same size as the original, I believe.
Both locos are great runners ("can" motors) and I am very fond of them. I particularly like the fact that my 2056 loco and tender are stand-alone units. There is no tether of any kind between loco and tender. You can run them together or substitute other components.
That said, Williams locos come typically with only a whistle (or horn) and a bell. There are no engine sounds. Further, the whistle/horn has only one sequence: the standard "grade-crossing warning" of long, long, short, long. When you push the whistle/horn button, that's what you get. You can't vary it. I have partially gotten around this by installing a cutout switch on the factory sound system and pulling a Lionel diesel railsounds boxcar behind the diesel loco, and using a Lionel Railsounds tender behind the steamer -- when I feel like it. These give me full horn, whistle, diesel engine sounds, bell, and chuff, as appropriate to locomotive type.
Williams engines can be modified by installing after-market sound systems by other manufacturers, but these are not cheap and bring the total cost up into the Lionel range. In a phrase, Williams locos are simple, smooth, and reliable, but they do not have all the fancy electronics that many modern Lionel or MTH products do. For me, simpler is better, but they won't please the guy who wants all the modern (troublesome?) electronics that are now available. I read somewhere that when folks want to put a train on display, as in a window or lobby, they often choose Williams because they just run and run and run....
You can order Williams straight from the factory, but they also publish a dealer list on their website. You can get discounted prices from Marty at Ma and Pa Junction in Maryland, or JusTrains in Delaware, to name two.
Thanks for the explanations!
It looks like they both use can motors with flywheels, and the subframes are probably similar...
I don''t have the budget for remote control (TMMC) and the trainsounds are cool I guess..., but an engine with a whistle sounds great and even better at those prices.
I have a Williams FM (Southern) and the thing is massive and will pull a house. Absolutely reliable.
I also have a Williams GP9 (ACL, which I bought not knowing ACL had GP7s) and it's also rock solid and a great puller.
By contrast, the last Lionel I purchased (A Southern 0-8-0) has a defective sound system and I believe my friends at the train shop are in their sixth week of waiting for parts to be sent out from Lionel.
Probably my only issue with Williams is sketchy detailing and horns that are not real impressive. But for price (and appearance for same) as well as power and reliability they absolutely cannot be beat.
You can't dismiss the lifetime warranty on the Williams locos, either. I had a defective e-unit on my Hudson, sent it in, and had it back within two weeks with a new unit. All it cost me was one way postage. Just in case, keep all of the boxes that the loco comes in as it makes any shipping return, if ever needed, much easier.
In terms of lower cost, IMO there are probably several reasons. Jerry runs a small operation and I suspect that his O/H is lower. He tends to sell the same loco types from one year to the next so he gets maximum return on his tooling. He is reproducing products put out in the past by Lionel so his up front R, D & E is less. And he sacrifices some detail accuracy. I would add these to those already presented.
Poppyl
I also have a williams engine. It's a though and reliable machine, but not a slow runner nor highly detailled. Comparable to postwar in detail and operating qualities.. The biggest drawback I think is that the gearreduction is so low that it won't run slowly. It starts up at a relative high speed, certainly if running alone. The motors still run very slow while the engine is already at a normal speed.. If you have a small layout and want to do a lot of switching, search for another one. If you want a mainline to have a powerfull puller for trains at normal speeds, they are very good value to the money.
I've got several Williams locomotives and love them all. I have a 671 turbine, a 2023 alco set, and a 2343 F3 set. All are incredible runners and pullers. Great service department too!
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I have several Williams diesel locomotives that run smooth and pull almost anything . Williams uses metal gears for the drive gears. The SD45's will run on 031 track, the GP9's can run on 027 curves well. The S2 steam locomotive pulls over 25 freight cars on my O gauge track. Williams does well on Gargraves track too.
If I could afford them I would buy more Williams locomotives.
My only advice is not to use Lionel switches #6-23010 & 6-23011 as these are problematic(the more you use them the more problems that happen)switches when using with Williams locomotives.
Lee F.
Hey Jimbo,
You must mean another great reason to use Gargraves track & switches, as Fastrac ($180.00 for a pair of switches)will clean out my wallet tooo quickly!
I might have missed you Jimboy.
The latest Williams I acquired ['06]is a scale E-7 in Southern Ry livery. I have several of their early scale brass---Ps-4s, Mikados in Southern and the N&W "J", all from about 1991.
The E-7 has been upgraded to TMCC/RS 4.0 and pairs up very favorably with my Lionel E-6 and Weaver E-8s. The "J" received new flywheel motors and TM/RS. I ran them conventionally for a long while before converting to TMCC and liked the engines very much because they were trouble-free.
I run eight Williams locos. Six diesel, two steam, Hudson and Berkshire. The Berkshire has better slow speed control than the Hudson. Either unit is a good puller.
The diesel units, four axle or six axle, are among the best runners I own. My Alco PA set has over 2300 hours on it. One reason I get such enormous running from all my locos regardless of manufacturer is the lubrication I use.
For grease I use Lucas Red and Tacky, and for oil I use Marvel Mystery oil. Both products are available at Napa and other auto supply stores. I have used these products for over seven years with no damage to either paint or plastic. Has anybody else used this lube combo?
Anyway I do not think you can go far wrong with a Williams product.
All Lionel all the time.
Okiechoochoo
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