TMCC conventional control

[magicman710]

Ok, here a senario(just a made up senario, not my actual layout plans), I have 2 mainlines strectching 60 feet all around. I split them up into 4 power districts(the thing were you insert a firbe pin in the center rail and add power to the block) and a pair of switches connect them with a insulated pin in them. Can I just have 2 TPCs or powermasters for each mainline to control 2 conventional engines, or will having power districts make it so I have to have TPCs on all the districts?

Grayson

[Anonymous]

2

[cheech]

Hi magicman

To get your made up scenario to work you need supply power to each district. Lots of ways to do it. One way is a BPC that feeds from the TPC. Each BPC can support 4 power districts [blocks].

So, theoretically, set your tpc to conventional, connect each district to a BPC, and the BPC to the TPC, powered by a transformer/PoHo. If you already have two TPCs, you can connect both to one BPC, letting each run 2 districts/one loop. You shouldn't need 4.  60 foot loops are large and will need feeders every six or so feet to keep the power at the right level around the loop.

hope my theory supports your theory

ralph

[magicman710]

Ok, tell me if this is possible. I use the same layout, but connect just a command base to one mainline(to control my tmcc equipped engines only), and connect to the other mainline the tpc and bpc to allow me to only control my concentional engines? Will just putting the insulating pin in the middle of the switches allow this?

 

Grayson

[Dave Connolly]

 Once you hook up the command base it will incorporate the entire layout. I'm guessing you want 2 ovals with a crossover to get from one to another. What you can do is use a TPC so that you can run your conventional engine with Cab 1.  With a command base hooked any TMCC engine will sit silent until addressed. Once the conventional engine is up and running you can adress the command engine and run it as well. To adress the conventional engine you will be adressing the track that it's on. When you adress the command engine you will address the engine itself. All this works as long as you get the conventional engine running first. There will be enough voltage present on the rails to run your command engine. 18v is not needed. But if you address the track to slow the speed of your conventional engine. Your command engine will slow as well as the voltage present on the rails decreases. All this is covered in the manual. The only features you may lose are the ability to fire the coil couplers as they require around 16v.

[magicman710]

But you need a tpc for each block(power distrect), dont you? So I can divide my layout into 8 power distrects (4 on each oval) and use 2 TPCs and 2 BPCs, 1 for each oval. I this correct? Do I have to use bus wires and feeders to add power to each power distrect, or is it powered by the BPC?

 

Grayson

[Dave Connolly]

 Is the 60 feet the size of the room or the ammount of trackage ? 

 How many trains will be running on each loop of track at the same time ?

 I don't get the need for power districts unless your talking a mainline capable of running 2 or 3 trains at once on the same loop of track. All these products will work that are mentioned. The TPC's as well as the BPC's but they sure can get expensive.

[magicman710]

The room is not 60ft., im using 2 rooms conected by a hallway. Im going to run the layout around the wall, being 2 feet wide(except for yards). The total trackage will be around 60ft.

Power districts are needed because any train will slow down the farther it gets from the transformer. Using inulated pins every 20 or so track sections  and adding a lockon(or soldered wires) tapping off of bus wires, you add power to the 20 track sections. Its not block control, its just evening out the power throughout the layout. I plan to run only 1 train per mainline at a time.

 

Grayson

[Dave Connolly]

  I have one mainline loop on my layout divided into 4 electric blocks. Not power districts as 1 transformer powers the entire loop. I run Gargraves track and have close to your oval of 60 feet of track in each block. If you are experience slowing of trains as they distance themselves from the power supply. The cure may be as simple as large gauge wires. Each section of 3 foot Gargraves has 14 gauge feeder wires that attach to a 12 gauge buss that runs under the track. Voltage loss is very slight from one section to the next. Even in my conventional days I never experienced trains slowing.

[magicman710]

What is a eletrical block? Whats the difference from power districts?

[Dave Connolly]

 An electrical block is usually a series of isolated blocks divided by the pins you mentioned. Usually they are controlled by toggles to unpower engines or lighted cars not being used. Generally one transformer is used and by shutting off blocks on unused cars or engines will save some amps on the power supply and keep them unpowered on a conventional layout.

 A power district became a popular term in running DCS or TMCC command layouts. Seeing only a fixed voltage is needed in a command environment. Multiple power supplies are spread around a large layout. Each power supply only powers the track in it's given area. This will give the layout more amperage as trains pass from once power supply to another. The other benefit is shorter wire ones. The districts or power supplies are divided either by breaks in the center rail at turnouts or insulating pins. To run in this mode. All power supplies must be in phase.

[magicman710]

So the easiest way is to add a powermaster to each block?

[chuck]

Yes, you can split the two loops at the crossover with a single fiber pin.  If you shoose to run one loop in command mode and the other conventional, be very careful about allowing a conventional loco into the crossover.  As soon as it hits the constant voltage section of track, it's going to take off at warp speed.  I would recommend use of a pair of TPC's, one for each loop.  THis will allow you to vary the voltage in both loops and make it possible for a conventional engine to cross into the "other" loop. 

I never run my TMCC equipment at 18 volts.  I use the TPC to trim back the power to 14-16 volts, whatever it takes to fire the couplers.  The TMCC signal will propogate throughout your layout and has no problem "jumping" insulating pins.  It uses an RF signal and can actually be inducted accross nearby tracks.  A command equipped engin that crosses into a lower voltage block will only be affected if the voltage in the block is lower than what it was using to maintain the speed you set.