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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 2, 2005 12:41 PM
The ads sound so amazingly and make the rides sound so comfortable and desirable. But what were the interiors really like in these trains and what colors did the railroads decide to use for everything like their carpets and upholstries and walls. Was it anything like amtrak's blue blue blue and more blue?
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, December 2, 2005 2:51 PM
Hello DaveJfr0

Glad you are enjoying the Ads - that's the idea!

There is no single answer that will fit all situations for the Classic Passenger Trains that criss-crossed the U.S. and Canada many decades ago. I'm hardly an expert, but we have one or two who frequent this site who can most probably fill you up with all kinds of "good stuff" regarding the interiors.

I was a kid in the 1940's and early 50's when these Classics were running. What I recall, depending on where you were ticketed - the coaches weren't anything special - but much better in the workmanship department. Just more finishing touches. Now if you were booked in the bedrooms and had access to the lounges, well that's another story entirely. In some cases the trains were elegant and extremely well appointed. Why [?] Competition. There was an ongoing effort to win over the travelers from one road to another. That's why those Ads appeared in all of the leading magazines and on bill boards. There wasn't TV (I know, that's probably very difficult for many to accept![swg]) Anyway, the RR's did everything they could to make their trains MORE attractive than the other guys.

Regarding Amtrak, let me say this from someone who was there when the passenger roads folded the tent. Amtrak is a story that so many on these forums have opinions on. Much is very negative. My take on it is simple - it's the only game in town. I ride it - I support it and I hope it doesn't die off. For should the latter happen, there just won't be any long distance trains left. It's very easy to get caught up in the "bashing game." The wiser person is one who does some research along with gaining some experiencing before opining.

Good luck to you on these forums as I see you are a new guy in town.

Later! [tup]



Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, December 3, 2005 8:15 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Passenger RR Fallen Flag #2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Here's another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Missouri Pacific (MoPAC)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Route mileage in 1950: 9,700

Locomotive fleet in 1963: Diesel: 724

Rolling stock in 1950:

Freight cars: 44.923 Passenger cars: 533

Principal lines in 1950:

St. Louis-Sedalia-Kansas City, MO-Omaha, NE
Jefferson City-Boonville-Kansas City
St. Joseph, MO-Stockton, KS
Kansas City-Pueblo, CO
Osawatomie, KS-Wagoner, OK-North Little Rock, AR
Pleasant Hill, MO-Wichita-Geneseo, KS
Fort Scott-Larned, KS
Rich Hill-Joplin, MO
Carthage, MO-Diaz, AR
St. Louis-Little Rock, AR-Texarkana, TX
East St. Louis, IL-Poplar Bluff, MO
Bismark, MO-Salem, IL
Bald Knob, AR-Memphis, TN
Little Rock-McGehee, AR-Lake Charles, LA
Memphis-McGehee
McGehee-Vidalia, LA
Pine Bluff-Hot Springs, AR
Gurdon, AR-Clayton, LA
Longview-Laredo, TX
Palestine-Galveston, TX
Brownsville, TX-Baton Rouge, LA-New Orleans
New Orleans-Donaldson-Alexandria, LA
Forth Worth-Spring (Houston), TX
San Antonio-Corpus Christi, TX
El Paso-Longview, TX-Livonia, LA-New Orleans (T&P)
Fort Worth, TX-Cypress, LA, via Texarkana & Marthaville, LA (T&P)
Texarkana-Longview (T&P)

Passenger Trains:

Aztec Eagle (San Antonio-Mexico City)
Colorado Eagle (St, Louis-Denver)
Houstonian (New Orleans-Houston)
Louisiana Sunshine Special (Little Rock-Lake Charles)
Missouri River Eagle (St. Louis-Omaha)
Missourian (St. Louis-Kansas City and Wichita)
Orleanean (Houston-New Orleans)
Ozarker (St. Louis-Little Rock)
Pioneer (Houston-Brownsville)
Rainbow Special (Kansas City-Little Rock)
Royal Gorge (Kansas City-Pueblo)
Southerner (St. Louis-El Paso & San Antonio & New Orleans)
Southern Scenic (Kansas City-Memphis)
Sunflower (St. Louis-Kansas City & Wichita)
Sunshine Special (St. Louis-Hot Springs & San Antonio)
Texan (St. Louis-Fort Worth
Texas Eagle (No. 1 & 2: St. Louis-El Paso, TX)
Texas Eagle (No. 21 & 22: St. Louis-Houston & San Antonio)
Valley Eagle (Houston-Brownsville)

Of note: National Railways of Mexico operated the Aztec Eagle between Nuevo Laredo-Mexico City.
T&P operated the El Paso trains out of Texarkana and handled Texarkana-Longview trains.
Denver trains out of Pueblo were operated by D&RGW.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, December 3, 2005 2:05 PM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #3 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from The Official Guide of the Railways – Aug 1956:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Missouri – Kansas – Texas Railroad (MKT – KATY Lines)

On hand reference material does not provide a detailed equipment listing, however there are some items of interest:

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Passenger trains of note: Katy Flyer – The Bluebonnet – Texas Special

Slogans: The KATY Railroad – Natural Route Southwest.

….. Only ONE COUPON is required for passage between any two points on MISSOURI – KANSAS – TEXAS LINES.

….. “Texas Special Route – Frisco – M-K-T Lines” from St. Louis to Dallas, Fort Worth, Wichita Falls, Waco, Temple, Austin, San Antonio, Houston and Intermediate points.

….. Specify Katy’s New Fast Service – 17 hours – Kansas City to Dallas - Fort Worth. Second Morning Delivery from Chicago Via C.B.&Q. – Kansas City – M.K.T.

Advertisements: Route ‘em Katy Southwest

….. On The Famous Streamlined Texas Special

Luxury sleeping car and coach accommodations, nationally famous diner meals please every taste, every budget. Friendly, attentive service in an atmosphere of restful comfort. Through sleeping cars to and from Chicago, New York, Washington and the Metropolitan East, via the St. Louis gateway.

Daily between St. Louis and San Antonio.

….. On The De Lux Texas Bluebonnet

Bedroom and Section accommodations available between Kansas City, Forth Worth, Dallas and San Antonio. Roomettes between Kansas City and Dallas; Diner-lounge car … traditionally superb Bluebonnet diner meals. Dallas and Fort Worth passengers particularly appreciate the “just right” overnight Bluebonnet schedule. You retire at your usual bedtime, arrive refreshed and rested

Short line between Kansas City and the principal cities of Texas (daily).

Famous Meals a feature of Katy Dining Car Service!

Breakfast .75 to $1.75

Luncheon $1.20 to $2.50

Dinner $1.20 to $5.50

Know Your Pullmans

All regularly assigned sleeping cars on Katy-Lines are numbered. Car 16, for example is invariably a 14 Roomette, 4 bedroom cars, operating on the Texas Special between St. Louis and Dallas. Reservations are made accordingly.

On these pages sleeping car numbers are featured for your guidance. It is a good idea to check your reservations to be sure your space has been properly assigned.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, December 4, 2005 8:32 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . .PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #4 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Western Pacific (WP)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Headquarters: San Francisco, CA

Route mileage in 1950: 1,137

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel - 174

Rolling stock in 1950: Freight cars – 5,532; Passenger cars – 29

Principal routes in 1950 (not including subsidies):

Oakland-Stockton-Sacramento, CA-Salt Lake City, UT
Keddie-Bieber, CA
Reno Junction-Reno, NV
Niles-San Jose, CA

Passenger trains of note:

California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago – Oakland)
Feather River Express (Oakland-Portola, CA)
Royal Gorge (Oakland-St. Louis, MO)
Scenic Limited (Oakland-St. Louis)
Zephyrette (Oakland-Salt Lake City) [RDC’s!]

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 4, 2005 10:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw4001

QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo

For cnw4001

RDCs are special indeed, always enjoyed traveling in 'em, short distance or long. [tup]

I used to commute to Boston with the B&M aboard their RDCs back in the late 60s. There was quite a fleet at North Station; South Station too with the NH ....

Appreciate you comments! [tup]




Interesting you should mention the MBTA RDC's. Rode those on a visit to Boston a number of years ago but they were no longer RDCs, the power plants had been removed and they were coaches hauled by locomotives.

Was a handy way to get into the city while staying at a motel out in the suburbs

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MBTA RDC-1B in Palmer Massachusetts, rusting away
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 4, 2005 10:26 AM
Hello Folks.
Just months ago I gave up on Boston traffic and now enjoy a ride every day on the MBTA Worcester/Framingham route into Boston. While in Palmer I spotted a MBTA passenger car numbered 6152 on a siding. This poor chap is missing windows. I did a few web searchs on it and found that these where used up until 1989 on the MBTA. Too bad, I think the view would be pretty enjoyable up top! What usually happens to these old cars? I believe CSX owns the yard this car is in so it probably is not a good sign for this car that it is here. What usually happens to them? To bad the Connecticut Trolley museum couldnt get it or someone else.
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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, December 4, 2005 11:12 AM
G'day Mlaferriere Mike

When I rode those RDC's they were owned and operated by the B&M - MBTA hadn't gotten to them yet. Just cannot imagine those fine Budd cars being "gutted" with the removal of their power plants. But time marches on, eh [?]

Can't help you with regard to "What usually happenns to these old cars," other than to say there's an assortment of probabilities. Scrappers - collectors - restorationists - museums, sold for parts, etc. Take your pick.

I see that you are new to these Forums - enjoy your time, there's a lot of great places to browse. Check us out at "Our" Place, if you're so inclined to frequent a cyber bar 'n grill! [swg]

Thanx for stopping by and I hope you've gotten something out these 8 pages of passenger RR "stuff!"

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, December 4, 2005 6:24 PM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #5 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific (The Rock Island)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage in 1950: 7,579

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel – 539

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 26,690; Passenger cars – 646

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Omaha, NE
Omaha-Colorado Springs & Denver, CO
Davenport, IA-Tucumcari, NM
Bureau Junction-Peoria, IL
Minneapolis, MN-Kansas City, MO
Manly-Burlington, IA
Cedar Rapids (Vinton), IA-Sioux Falls, SD
Keokuk, IA-Bear Lake, SD
Tucumcari-Memphis, TN
Herington, KS-Houston, TX
Little Rock, AR-Eunice, LA
Kansas City-St. Louis

Passenger trains of note:

Choctaw Rocket (Amarillo, TX-Memphis)
Corn Belt Rocket (Chicago-Omaha)
Des Moines Rocket (Chicago-Des Moines, IA)
Golden State (Chicago-LA; joint ops w/SP)
The Imperial (Chicago-LA)
Kansas City Rocket (Minneapolis-Kansas City)
Peoria Rockets (Chicago-Peoria)
Texas Rocket (Ft. Worth-Houston; then Kansas City-Dallas)
Twin Star Rocket (Minneapolis-Houston)
Quad City Rocket (Chicago-Rock Island)
Rocky Mountain Rocket (Chicago-Colorado Springs & Denver)
Zephyr Rocket (Minneapolis-St. Louis; joint ops w/CB&Q)

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, December 5, 2005 7:14 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #6 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:
St. Louis-San Francisco (Frisco)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Route mileage in 1950: 5,100

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 286
Passenger: 23
Switchers: 102

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 17,889 Passenger cars – 230

Principal routes in 1950:

St. Louis-Quanah, TX
Kansas City-Birmingham, AL via Ft. Scott, KS
St. Louis-Memphis
Amory, MS-Pensacola, FL
Monee, MO-Paris, TX
Sapulpa (Tulsa) OK-Dallas/Ft. Worth
Fort Scott-Afton, OK
Kansas City-Springfield, MO via Clinton, MO
Monett-Ellsworth, KS
Tulsa-Avard, OK
Nash, MO-Hoxie, AR

Passenger trains of note:

Black Gold (Tulsa-Fort Worth)
Firefly (Kansas City-Oklahoma City)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Jacksonville)
Memphian (St. Louis-Memphis)
Meteor (St. Louis-Oklahoma City & Fort Smith, AR)
Oklahoman (1st iteration) (Kansas City-Tulsa)
Oklahoman (2nd iteration, 1965-67) (St. Louis-Oklahoma City)
Southland (Kansas City & St. Louis-Atlanta & Pensacola)
Texas Special (St. Louis-San Antonio & Forth Worth)
Will Rogers (St. Louis-Oklahoma City & Wichita, KS)

Of note:
Southern Railway handled trains east of Birmingham.
MKT (Katy) handled the Texas Special between Vinita, OK and Texas destinations.

Also:
The route maps for Frisco that I have, only reflect central and south central U.S. trackage. Further, there are NO references to thru passenger trains to the west coast under the Frisco name. Thru car service, no doubt, but with other carriers. In the 1960’s freight trains #37 and #437 ran jointly with AT&SF between Birmingham, AL and LA. A motive-power pooling agreement was reached along with restrictive trackage rights. It should be noted that from the onset of FRISCO’s existence, the competing railroads succeeded in keeping them from ever reaching California. So, what’s in a name [?]! And, yes – it is confusing. [swg]


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, December 5, 2005 8:27 PM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #7 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Atlantic Coast Line (ACL)

Headquarters: Jacksonville, FL

Route mileage in 1950: 5,528

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 170
Passenger: 62
Dual mode (freight/passenger): 234
Switchers: 119

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 28,847; Passenger cars – 405

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Tampa, FL, via Jacksonville and Orlando.
Wilson-Wilmington, NC
Wilmington-Pee Dee (Florence) SC
Winston-Salem, NC-Florence
Florence-Atlanta
Brunswick, GA-Montgomery, AL
Birmingham, AL-Waycross, GA
Albany-Dunnellon, FL
Jacksonville-St. Petersburg, FLA via Gainesville, Leesburg and Trilby
Dupont, GA-Naples, FL

Passenger trains of note:

East Coast Champion (New York-Miami)
West Coast Champion (New York-Tampa & St. Petersburg & Sarasota)
Tamiami Champion – Predecessor of East and West Coast Champions
Florida Special (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg)
Miamian (Washington-Miami)
Vacationer (New York-Miami)
Havana Special (New York-Key West, FL)
Palmetto (New York-Savannah & Augusta & Wilmington)
Everglades (New York-Jacksonville)
Gulf Coast Special (New York-Tampa & Ft. Myers & St. Petersburg; formerly Havana Special)

Of note: North of Richmond, RF&P and PRR handled passenger trains.
South of Jacksonville, FEC handled trains bound for Miami and Key West.
SAL handled trains headed for Miami south of Auburndale, FL in 1963.

Other carrier’s trains destined to Florida, such as the City of Miami – South Wind – Flamingo – Dixie Limited – Dixie Flyer – Seminole and Southland were combined with named ACL trains.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, December 6, 2005 10:01 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #8 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Seaboard Air Line (SAL)

Headquarters: Norfolk, VA

Route mileage in 1950: 4,146

Locomotives in 1963: Diesels – 531

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 27,560; Passenger cars – 446

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Homestead, FL (Miami) via Columbia, SC & Jacksonville & Auburndale, FL
Coleman-St. Petersburg, Fl
Hamlet, NC-Savannah, GA
Norlina, NC-Norfolk
Hamlet-Birmingham, AL
Savannah, GA – Montgomery, AL
Baldwin-Chattahoochee, FL
Baldwin-Gross, FL (bypass of Jacksonville)
Waldo-Sulphur Springs, FL
Plant City-Fort Myers, FL
Durant-Venice, FL
Hull-Port Boca Grande, FL
Valrico-West Lake Wales, FL

Passenger trains of note:

Cotton Blossom (Washington, DC-Atlanta)
Gulf Wind (Jacksonville-New Orleans)
New York-Florida Limited (New York-Miami)
Orange Blossom Special (New York-Miami)
Palmland (New York-Tampa & Boca Grande, FL)
Silver Meteor (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Ft. Myers)
Silver Comet (New York- & Portsmouth, VA-Birmingham)
Silver Star (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Boca Grande, FL)
Sunland (Washington & Portsmouth-Miami & Venice; formerly Southern States Special, Sun Queen & Camellia)
Suwannee River Special (Cincinnati-Florida destinations)

Of note: SAL passenger trains were handled by RF&P & PRR north of Richmond.
L&N handled the Gulf Wind west of Chattahoochee.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Cthetrains on Tuesday, December 6, 2005 10:30 AM
heyheyhey..don't forget the MKT..they ran passenger service until somewhere in the mid 1900's....

the Texas Special, which they shared with Frisco Lines

nevermind..Fallen Flag #3...I musta missed a page in my skimming..[xx(]
Cory "Ruler of nothing, respected by none, HEARD BY ALL, guaranteed!!!!!"
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, December 6, 2005 7:41 PM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #9 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Delaware & Hudson (D&H)

Headquarters: Albany, NY

Route mileage in 1950: 765 – 2000: 1,381

Locomotives in 1963: Diesels – 153

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 9,394 Passenger cars – 55

Principal lines in 1950:

Albany-Troy-Mechanicville, NY – Montreal, QC (Napierville Junction Railway trackage Rouses Point, NY-Montreal)
Binghamton-Oswego, NY (Erie trackage)
Nineveh, NY-Wilkes Barre, PA
Hudson-Buttonwood Yard, PA
Delanson-Mechanicville, NY
Schenectady-Balston Spa, NY
Saratoga Springs-Tahawus, NY (U.S. Government trackage North Creek-Tahawus)
Troy-Castleton, VT (B&M trackage Troy-Eagle Bridge, NY)
Whitehall, NY-Rutland, VT
Plattsburg-Lyon Mountain, NY
Plattsburg-Ausable Forks, NY
Fort Ticonderoga-Ticonderoga, NY
Oneonta-Cooperstown, NY
Cobleskill-Cherry Valley, NY

Using CONRAIL trackage in 1976:

Oswego-Buffalo & Niagara Falls, NY
Wilkes Barre-Harrisburg,PA-Washington, DC
Scranton-Allentown, PA-Newark, NJ
Allentown-Philadelphia

Passenger trains of note:

Laurentian (New York-Albany-Montreal)
Montreal Limited (New York-Albany-Montreal)

Of note:
All cars south of Albany handled by NYC.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 8:38 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #10 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Canadian National Railways (passenger operations)

Headquarters: Montreal, Quebec

Mileage as of 1955: 24,220

Locomotives as of 1963:

Steam: 0
Diesel: 2,125
Electric: 27

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars– 105,177 Passenger cars: 2,808

Principal routes in 1955:

Halifax, NS-Montreal, QC (two routes)
Halifax-Sydney, NS
St. John’s-Port aux Basques, NL (42” gauge)
Montreal-Portland, ME (via subsidiary Grand Trunk Railway in U.S.)
Montreal-New London, CT (via subsidiary Central Vermont in U.S.)
Quebec City-Montreal-Toronto-Windsor & Sarnia, ON-Detroit, MI & Chicago (via subsidiary GTW in U.S.)
Toronto-North Bay, ON
Toronto-Niagara Falls, ON
Quebec City-Winnipeg, MB
Montreal-Winnipeg
Winnipeg-Churchill, MB
Winnipeg-Duluth, MN (via subsidiary Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific in U.S.)
Winnipeg-Vancouver, BC
Winnipeg-Regina, SK
Saskatoon, SK-Calgary, AB
Calgary-Edmonton, AB
Jasper, AB-Prince Rupert, BC

Passenger trains of note in 1955:

Super Continental (Montreal & Toronto-Vancouver)
Continental Limited (Montreal & Toronto-Vancouver)
Ocean Limited (Montreal-Halifax)
Scotian (Montreal-Halifax)
Caribou (St. John’s-Port aux Basques)
International Limited (Montreal-Toronto-Chicago)
Inter-City Limited (Montreal-Toronto-Detroit & Chicago)
Northland (Toronto-North Bay & Timmins & Kapuskasing, ON)
Maple Leaf (Toronto-Philadelphia & New York City)
Montrealer & Washingtonian (Montreal-New York City-Washington, DC)
Ambassador (Montreal-Boston)
Gull (Boston-Portland, ME-Saint John, NB-Halifax)

Of note:
Montreal & Toronto-Chicago route with GTW Detroit & Port Huron-Chicago.
Toronto-Philadelphia & New York route with Lehigh Valley, Niagara Falls, NY-New York City.
Montreal-New York City & Boston & Washington route with CV, B&M, NH and PRR.
Halifax-Boston route with CP, Maine Central and B&M.
Toronto-Timmins & Kapuskasing route with Ontario Northland Railway.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 8:17 PM
G'day!

PASSENGER RR NOSTALGIA/FALLEN FLAG SUPPLEMENTAL INFO

More on the Canadian National Railways of the Passenger RR Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956

Canadian National Railways

Canadian National

Super Continental - Dieselized all the way

Faster daily service between

MONTREAL - OTTAWA - TORONTO - WINNIPEG - SASKATOON - EDMONTON - JASPER - VANCOUVER

No Extra Fare

Westward - Read down ..................................................Eastward - Read up
Example..........Daily ......................................................... Daily .........Example

Sunday............4 00 P.M. ..... Lv. Montreal ... E.T. .. Ar. ...5 05 P.M. .... Wednesday
Sunday............6 00 P.M. .... Ar. Ottawa........E.T....Lv......3 05 P.M. .....Wednesday
Sunday............6 10 P.M. .... Lv Ottawa.........E.T. ..Ar. ....2 50 P.M. .... Wednesday

Sunday............6 00 P.M. .... Lv. Toronto.......E.T. ..Ar. .....2 15 P.M. ... Wednesday

Monday..........10 25 P.M. ....Ar. Winnipeg.....C.T. ..Lv. .....8 20 A.M. ... Tuesday
Monday..........10 50 P.M. ... Lv. Winnipeg.....C.T. ..Ar. ....7:55 A.M. .... Tuesday
Tuesday......... 8 00 A.M. ... Ar. Saskatoon....M.T. ..Lv. ....8 50 P.M. ... Monday
Tuesday..........8 10 A.M. ....Lv. Saskatoon....M.T. ..Ar. ....8 40 P.M. ... Monday
Tuesday..........3 10 P.M. ...Ar. Edmonton......M.T. ..Lv. ...1 50 P.M. .... Monday
Tuesday..........3 25 P.M. ...Lv. Edmonton......M.T. ..Ar. ...1 35 P.M. .... Monday
Tuesday..........8:55 P.M. ...Ar. Jasper............P.T. ..Lv. ...8 15 A.M. .....Monday
Tuesday..........8 05 P.M. ...Lv. Jasper............P.T. ..Ar. .. 7 05 A.M. .....Monday
Wednesday....1 05 P.M. ....Ar. Vancouver .... P.T. ..Lv. .. 2 45 P.M. .... Sunday

Through deluxe coaches with reclining seats between Montreal and Toronto and Vancouver.
Parlor Car between Montreal and Ottawa only.
Dining Room Refreshment Lounge Car between Toronto and Winnipeg.
Coffee Shop Car between Toronto-Capreol.
............................... between Montreal-Vancouver (until May 31).
............................... between Winnipeg-Vancouver (first trip June 2).
Dining Car between Winnipeg and Vancouver.
Tourist Sleeping Cars between Montreal-Toronto and Vancouver.
Drawing room, compartment, double bedrooms, duplex roomette, lower and upper berth accommodation available in latest type standard sleepers between Montreal-Toronto and Vancouver.
Attractive lounge accommodation for standard sleeping car passengers.

NOTE: Perhaps our Canadian friends can elaborate on what appears to be discrepancies with the time zones. In current times, Saskatoon is on Central Time and Jasper is Mountain Time. Don't know why in 1956 the time zones were listed this way ... Perhaps the zone maps were different back then. Anyone know [?]

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, December 8, 2005 11:05 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #11 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Denver & Rio Grande Western (D&RGW) [img]

Headquarters: Denver, CO

Mileage:

1950: 2,413
1995: 2,238 including trackage rights routes

Rolling stock as of 1963: Freight cars – 12,610 Passenger cars – 96

Principal lines in 1950:

Denver-Bond, CO-Salt Lake City, UT
Denver-Pueblo-Dotsero, CO
Pueblo-Trinidad, CO
Walsenburg-Alamosa, CO
Alamosa-Durango, CO
Salida-Gunnison, CO
Mears Junction-Alamosa
Alamosa-Creede, CO
Bond-Craig, CO
Grand Junction-Ouray, CO
Thistle-Marysvale, UT
Salt Lake City-Ogden, UT

Passenger trains of note:

California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland, joint w/Burlington & Western Pacific)
Colorado Eagle (St. Louis-Pueblo-Denver, joint w/MoPac)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago-Oakland, joint w/Burlington & WP, replaced by California Zephyr in 1949)
Mountaineer (Denver-Montrose, CO, via Moffat Tunnel)
Panoramic (Denver-Ogden)
Prospector (Denver-Salt Lake City)
Rio Grande Zephyr (Denver-Ogden [later cut back to Salt Lake City], replaced California Zephyr 1970-83)
Royal Gorge (Denver-Pueblo-Ogden)
San Juan (Alamosa-Durango, CO)
The Silverton (Durango-Silverton, CO)
The Yampa Valley (Denver-Craig)

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:06 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #12 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR)

Headquarters: Philadelphia, PA

Mileage:

1950: 10,000
1962: 9,756

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 2,402
Electric: 254

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 139,356 Passenger cars: 3,546

Principal routes in 1950:

Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh, PA
New York-Washington, DC
Pittsburgh-Fort Wayne, IN-Chicago, IL
Pittsburgh-Indianapolis, IN-St. Louis, MO
Pittsburgh-Cleveland, OH
Baltimore, MD-Buffalo, NY
Wilmington, DE-Norfolk, VA
Chicago-Columbus, OH
Logansport, IN-Louisville, KY
Logansport-Cincinnati
Fort Wayne, IN-Mackinaw City, MI
Columbus-Toledo, OH-Detroit, MI

Passenger trains of note:

Broadway Limited (New York-Chicago)
Clevelander (New York-Cleveland)
Cincinnati Limited (New York-Cincinnati)
Colonial (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
Congressional (New York-Washington)
Duquesne (New York-Pittsburgh)
Edison (New York-Washington)
The General (New York-Chicago)
Golden Triangle (Chicago-Pittsburgh)
Jeffersonian (New York-St. Louis)
Kentuckian (Chicago-Louisville)
Liberty Limited (Washington-Chicago)
Manhattan Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Pennsylvania Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Penn Texas (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Pittsburgher (New York-Pittsburgh)
Red Arrow (New York-Detroit)
St. Louis (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Senator (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
“Spirit of St. Louis” (New York-St. Louis)
South Wind (Chicago-Miami, joint with L&N, ACL and Florida East Coast)
Trail Blazer (New York-Chicago)
Union (Chicago-Columbus, OH)

Of note: In the New York-Florida market, the PRR was a forwarder for many connecting passenger trains from other roads.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:01 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #13 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

New York Central System (NYC)

Headquarters: New York City

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 1,965 Electric: 65

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 94,115 Passenger cars: 2,905

Principal routes in 1950:

New York-Buffalo, NY-Cleveland, OH-Chicago, IL
Buffalo-Detroit, MI-Porter, IN (Chicago)
Boston, MA-Albany, NY
Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati, OH
Gallion, OH-St. Louis, MO
Chicago-Indianapolis, IN-Cincinnati
Indianapolis-Peoria, IL
Cleveland-Pittsburgh, PA
Detroit-Toledo, OH-Springfield, OH
Toledo-Columbus, OH-Charleston, WVA
Utica, NY-Montreal, QC

Passenger trains of note:

Chicagoan (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Chicago Mercury (Chicago-Detroit)
Cincinnati Mercury (Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Cleveland Mercury (Detroit-Cleveland)
Cleveland Limited (New York-Cleveland)
Commodore Vanderbilt (New York-Chicago)
Detroiter (New York-Detroit)
Detroit Mercury (Cleveland-Detroit)
Empire State Express (New York-Buffalo)
James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago-Cincinnati)
Knickerbocker (New York-St. Louis)
Lake Shore Limited (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
The Michigan (Chicago-Detroit)
Motor City Special (Chicago-Detroit)
New England States (Chicago-Cleveland-Boston)
Ohio State Limited (New York-Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Pacemaker (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Southwestern Limited (New York-St. Louis)
20th Century Limited (New York Chicago)
Twilight Limited (Chicago-Detroit)
Wolverine (Chicago-Detroit-New York)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Eastern Ohio
  • 615 posts
Posted by cnw4001 on Saturday, December 10, 2005 1:57 PM
James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago-Cincinnati)

NYC July 15, 1956 Form 1000 (Public timetable)

Lv Cincinnati 8:30 AM ET
Ar Chiccago 1:20 PM CT Central Station Michigan Avenue and Rooselvelt Road
All Coach Seates reserved, certain reduced fare tickets not honored.

Lv Chcicago 4:20 CT
Ar Cincinnati 11:00 PM ET

Time enroute 5 hours 50 minutes.

Three other trains available each day including overnight trains in each direction.

Current Amtrak timetable.

Cardinal.....three days a week instead of daily

Lv Cincinnati 3: 05 AM ET
Ar Chicago 10:40 AM CT
Union Station

Lv Chicago 7:45 PM CT
Ar Cincinati 4:55 AM ET

Time enroute 8 hours and 35 minutes! (When on time)

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:07 AM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #14 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Santa Fe (AT&SF)

Headquarters: Chicago, Il

Mileage:

1950: 13,074 including subsidiaries
1995: (prior to merger with Burlington Northern): 9,126

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel: 1,855

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars: 84,439 Passenger cars: 1,235

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Los Angeles via Kansas City, MO. and La Junta, CO
Emporia, KS-Galveston, TX via Oklahoma City, OK & Ft. Worth & Houston, TX
Emporia, KS-Dalies, NM
Barstow-Richmond, CA
Temple-Farwell, TX
Denver-LaJunta, CO
Albuquerque, NM-El Paso, TX
Dallas-Presidio, TX
Kansas City-Tulsa

Passenger trains of note:

Super Chief I(Chicago-Los Angeles)
El Capitan (Chicago-Los Angeles)
The Chief (Chicago-Los Angeles
Grand Canyon (Chicago-Los Angeles
The Scout (Chicago-Los Angeles)
San Francisco Chief (Chicago-San Francisco, CA)
Texas Chief (Chicago-Houston)
San Diegan (Los Angeles-San Diego
Tulsan (Kansas City-Tulsa)
Chicagoan (Dallas-Kansas City-Chicago)
Golden Gate (Los Angeles-San Francisco)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Monday, December 12, 2005 12:10 PM
G'day!

. . . . . . . . . . PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #15 . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Baltimore & Ohio (B&O)

Headquarters: Baltimore, MD

Mileage in 1950: 10,000

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel: 491

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 59,152 Passenger cars – 654

Principal routes in 1950:

Jersey City, NJ (New York)-Baltimore, MD-Pittsburgh, PA-Chicago
Washington, DC-Point of Rocks, MD
Cumberland, MD-Cincinnati, OH-St. Louis, MO
Detroit, MI-Toledo, OH-Cincinnati
Hamilton, OH-Beardstown, IL
Pittsburgh-Buffalo & Rochester, NY
Akron-Cleveland, OH
Midland City, OH-Columbus, OH-Pittsburgh

Passenger trains of note:

Ambassador (Baltimore-Detroit)
Capitol Limited (Jersey City-Washington-Chicago)
Cincinnatian (Detroit-Cincinnati; later, Baltimore-Washington-Cincinnati)
Columbian (Washington-Chicago)
Diplomat (Jersey City-Washington-St. Louis)
Metropolitan Special (Washington-St. Louis)
National Limited (Jersey City-Washington-St. Louis)
Royal Blue (Jersey City-Washington)
Shenandoah (Jersey City-Washington-Chicago)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Monday, December 12, 2005 3:25 PM
G'day!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #29

More on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad (B&O) of the Passenger RR Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956

Thrilled travelers tell us “There’s nothing like the view from B&O’s STRATA-DOME” ….. Route your passengers via B&O and they’ll sing your praises too

Passengers traveling in a B&O Strata-Dome marvel at the thrilling panorama and natural beauty of the ever-changing scenery.

FLOODLIGHTS AT NIGHT

Powerful floodlight beams provide a novel view of the landscape after dark.

This exclusive B&O service between Washington and Chicago is offered at no charge!

Strata-Dome Dieseliners between

CHICAGO – AKRON – PITTSBURGH – WASHINGTON

The Capitol Limited (All Pullman) – The Columbia (Deluxe-Coach) – The Shenandoah* (Pullman and Coach)

THROUGH SERVICE TO AND FROM BALTIMORE, WILMINGTON, PHILADELPHIA AND NEW YORK.

*On the Shenandoah, Strata-Dome is operated on alternate dates. Available only to Pullman passengers on the Shenandoah.

BALTIMORE & OHIO RAILROAD

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Alberta's Canadian Rockies
  • 331 posts
Posted by BudKarr on Monday, December 12, 2005 3:35 PM
Hello Captain Tom!

You are at 29 Nostalgia posts and 15 Fallen Flags! That's an impressive amount of information provided for the those taking advantage of your efforts. Well done, indeed!

I noted that you were able to get a few of the onlookers to hang out over at the bar and grill, which has been rather postive, wouldn't you say?

Glad you took my recommendation to heart, but sorry that you are not getting the responses in kind. Very, very strange to my way of thinking. But then again, I too have a life away from these cyber dwellings. One only can guess at the variance in calibre of person who spends an inordinate amount of time doint precisely what I am doing. Good grief, time for me to get away from here.

See you at the bar!

BK
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:03 AM
G'day!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #30

More on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad (B&O) of the Passenger RR Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956


B&O DIESEL-ELECTRIC FEATURE TRAINS

CAPITOL LIMITED – COLUMBIAN – SHENANDOAH
Between Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and the East

NATIONAL LIMITED – DIPLOMAT – METROPOLITAN
Between St. Louis, Cincinnati, Washington and the East

THE AMBASSADOR
Between Detroit, Washington and Baltimore

THE ROYAL BLUE
Between Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York

STRATA-DOME CARS*
On 3 Fine Trains

CAPITOL LIMITED – COLUMBIAN – SHENANDOAH
Chicago – Akron – Pittsburgh – Washington
Baltimore – Wilmington – Philadelphia – New York

(* In service between Chicago and Washington)

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Eastern Ohio
  • 615 posts
Posted by cnw4001 on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:26 PM
CAPITOL LIMITED
Between Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and the East

Lv Chicago 4:00 PM CT
Ar Washington 9:30 AM ET

16 hours 30 minutes


Lv Washington 4:15 PM ET
Ar Chicago 8:30 AM CT

16 hours 45 minutes

Detroit section split at Willard, west bound and joined at Willard eastbound.

Amtrak Capitol Limited

Lv Chicago 5:35 PM CT
Ar Washington 11:59 AM ET

17 hours 24 minutes Detroit service via bus from Toledo

Lv Washington 3:55 PM ET
Ar Chicago 8:25 AM CT

17 hours 30 minutes Detroit service via bus at Toledo (get off at 4:41 AM)
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:32 PM
For: cnw4001

Appreciate the supplemental info these past couple of days ....... [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 302,230 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 12:22 AM
Here it is December and this is the first I've visited this site. If not too late, my husband can share some stories from the Milwaukee Road Hiawathas and CNW 400s. Back in 1956, I knew Walter Tuohy, President of the C&O, was interested in starting autotrains in the U.S., and we had the pleasure of being aboard the pilot run on the B&O Capitol Limited (Chicago-Washington, DC) when it was brought to fruition in 1965. Let us know if you want these stories... nwhitley1@cox.net
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 5:51 AM
Good Morning nwhitley - Of course, Post away! The more the merrier as they say.

There's also a much more interactive site on this Forum called "Our" Place - check it out - the talk is of "Classic Trains" while having some fun in a cyber bar 'n grill.

By the by - I note you are new to the Forums - suggest you do some browsing of the previous pages on this thread (site) and others you visit, just to get the "flow" of what the themes are all about. Makes if far easier to join in the dialogue when you know what's been said. [tup]

You and your husband are more than welcome. [swg]

Enjoy your experience in cyber space.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 15,223 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:24 AM
Tom, check this out. Regarding your Seabord passenger train listing, you show the Silver Comet as serving the Norfolk area, but it at least at one time, this service had a name of its own, the Tidewater, with through coaches and sleepers, lightwieght equipment in the summer, rebuilt heavies intersperced in the winter, to both Florida and Birmingham. So you can add the Tidewater to your list. Yes, I rode it!

If memory is correct, the car swapping was done at Hamlet and at Jacksonville, with at least the winter train maintaining its integrety as the Tidewater as far as Jacksonville.

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