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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, June 12, 2006 11:41 AM
NEW YORK
CHICAGO
&
ST. LOUIS
(NKP)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Nickel Plate owned no lightweight streamlined dining cars, but rebuilt and modernized a number of heavyweight dining cars and dining-lounge cars with a streamlined appearance following WW II. These cars were rebuilt and streamlined and the Nickel Plates Stony Island shops.
Cars 125 and 126 were rebuilt and streamlined from Café-Coaches and after modernization became dining lounge cars seating 24 in the dining room and 22 in the lounge section. They were most often assigned to the St. Louis – Cleveland route numbers 9-10.
Numbers 127-131 were rebuilt and streamlined with 18-seat Dining rooms and 10 seat lounges. These operated in Chicago – Buffalo trains and Chicago - Cleveland trains.
In May 1950 Pullman Standard delivered a pair of 5-Double Bedroom 3 Crew Dormitory Buffet 18-seat Café 4-seat Lounge cars. These two cars were 150 CITY OF CLEVELAND and 151 CITY OF CHICAGO and operated in overnight service between their namesake cities. Both were sold privately in 1970 and operate for private owners today.

5-DOUBLE BEDROOM 3-CREW DORMITORY BUFFET 18-SEAT CAFÉ 4-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard May 1950 Plan: 4169 Lot: 6867 (Built for and assigned to Cleveland – Chicago NICKEL PLATE LIMITED)

150 CITY OF CLEVELAND

151 CITY OF CHICAGO

The NKP was merged into the N&W October 16, 1964

TTFN AL
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, June 12, 2006 1:40 PM
G'day!

A bit of insight regarding the Nickel Plate Road



QUOTE: Main Line Nickel Plate

It is said that the New York, Chicago & St. Louis Railroad Company was probably the only railroad in the United States built for cash in advance of the issue of stocks and bonds. The subscribers to the founding syndicate agreed to furni***he money in ten percent calls as fast as required. It was February 1881, that a party of aggressive men met in the office of George I. Seney, President of the Metropolitan National Bank of New York City. Among those in attendance was Columbus R. Cummings of Chicago, the first NKP president, Walston H. Brown, Calvin S. Brice, General San Thomas, and John G. Kennaday, who formed what was known to be the financial world as the Seney Syndicate. Later, others who participated included General D.W. Caldwell, Dan P. Ellis, and Hon. William Flemming.

In 1880, a survey was made from St. Louis to Fort Wayne, Indiana, to connect with the Lake Erie & Western Railroad, of which Mr. Brice was President. The survey was purchased by the Syndicate and two new surveys made, one from Chicago to Fort Wayne, the other from Fort Wayne to Cleveland, originally intended as an eastern terminus of the road. It was finally determined to temporarily abandon the St. Louis branch and instead build from Cleveland to Buffalo.

Early in April 1881, Major Henry L. Merill, an experienced railroad builder, assumed charge of construction. Contracts were let for 45,000 tons of steel rails at $65.00 per ton. Right of way was secured as fast as the surveys were made. The first rails were laid between Arcadia and McComb, Ohio, and the road was practically finished by September 1882. The first train was run over the road October 22, 1882.

The Lake Shore & Michigan Southern, later a part of the New York Central System, quickly realized the value of the Nickel Plate Road as a competitor, purchased the road and held controlling interest in it until July 1916. The Van Sweringen brothers were looking for ways to expand their real estate business in Cleveland and bought the Nickel Plate to acquire a right-of-way for a new traction line. The Vans soon found how nice railroading was and in a matter of a few years became very powerful railroad barons.

On July 1, 1922, the Nickel Plate Road was operating 523 miles of track between Chicago and Buffalo. On this date the NKP secured control of the properties formerly operated, managed, and controlled by the Lake Erie & Western Railroad Co. The LE&W added 707 miles of track reaching from Sandusky, Ohio to Peoria, Illinois, with two branches in Indiana.

On July 15, 1922, another 453 miles were added to the system by affiliation with the cloverleaf (TStL&W RR) reaching from Toledo, Ohio to St. Louis, Missouri. Thus, the Nickel Plate became a 1683-mile system of trackage serving the industrial, agricultural, and distributing region between the Mississippi River on the west, the Great Lakes on the north, and the Niagara Frontier on the east, with close traffic arrangements and service to the New England States and the Atlantic Seaboard reached through connecting lines.

The Nickel Plate purchased its first fifteen Berkshire (2-8-4) steam locomotives in 1934. Until that time the NKP had never had a locomotive that was out of the ordinary. With the Berkshire, the NKP acquired an engine perfectly suited to its needs and virtually every 2-8-4 locomotive built afterwards was based on the very successful design of the 700's.

The 1940's found the Nickel Plate setting record after record with the Berkshires. An additional fifty-five were built during the War. In 1947, the Nickel Plate received its first diesel road engines from American Locomotive Co. . The streamlined diesels were affectionately called BLUEBIRDS and were the only motive power on the post 1900 Nickel Plate not painted black.

In 1949, the Nickel Plate leased the long sought Wheeling & Lake Erie Railway, which it had controlled for a number of years. The Wheeling gave the Nickel Plate a financially stable railroad that was a consistent money maker. With the addition of the W&LE, the stage was set for Nickel Plate's spectacular operational and financial performance of the 1950's.


from: www.nkphts.org/history.html

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by LoveDomes on Monday, June 12, 2006 3:25 PM
Hiya Cap'n Tom

Man oh man have I ever had a difficult time finding any Nickel Plate Road diesel pix that aren't copyrighted, protected, prohibited, etc. for further posting. I don't like being a JO about things like this, but never for the life of me can understand how one can provide pix here in the Ether, then expect them to be "protected." In my case, it's a matter of personal honor. But I'll bet there are plenty of JOs out there who could care less.

Just popped in to see what's going on - and aside from your great stuff this PM, not much else, huh [?] Good to see 20 Fingers made it in earlier . . .


Until the next time! [tup]

Lars
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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, June 12, 2006 4:27 PM
NEW YORK
CHICAGO
&
ST. LOUIS
(NICKEL PLATE)
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The first lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars operated on the NKP were a pair of Pullman Pool service 18 roomette cars ROOMETTE I and ROOMETTE II. These two cars were assigned to overnight Chicago - Cleveland service in the NICKEL PLATE LIMITED with the new names MOSES CLEAVELAND and ROBERT DE LA SALLE respectively. In 1945 these cars ownership was transferred to the NKP and the cars remained in NICKEL PLATE LIMITED service until January 1950. At that time the cars were transferred to overnight St. Louis - Cleveland service in unnamed 9-10. With the change the cars were repainted Blue and Silver to match the new 10-6 sleeping cars then arriving and renamed once again. MOSES CLEVELAND was renamed COTY OF COLDWATER and ROBERT DE LA SALLE received the new name CITY OF ST. MARYS. The two cars eventually were transferred back to the NICKEL PLATE LIMITED and ran out there days in that train before retirement in July 1961after that date they became stationary Crew Dormitory cars. The two cars were scrapped in 1968 at Decatur, Ill.

18 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard August 1937 Plan: 4068 Lot: 6494 (Built for Pullman Pool as experimental car introducing the Roomette)

215 CITY OF ST. MARYS ex MOSES CLEVELAND originally ROOMETTE I

18 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard December 1938 Plan: 4068G Lot: 6556 (Built for Pullman Pool from blank car body built in 1937)

216 CITY OF COLDWATER ex ROBERT DE LA SALLE originally ROOMETTE II

The NKP received new 10-6 Sleeping cars in 1950 built by Pullman Standard almost identical to those built for the C&O with the Bedrooms located in the center of the cars and five Roomettes located at each end. The NKP was closely associated with the C&O at the time the cars were ordered. The thirteen cars were delivered in January and February 1950. The first 10-6 sleeping cars delivered were assigned to the NICKEL PLATE LIMITED between Chicago - Cleveland, Chicago - Buffalo and in partnership with the DL&W there were through 10-6 sleeping cars between Chicago and Hoboken. In addition the new 10-6 sleeping cars were assigned to the NEW YORKER and its westbound counterpart the WESTERNER with sleeping cars between Chicago and Hoboken again in partnership with the DL&W both roads supplying 10-6 sleeping cars for this service. Unnamed 9-10 the St. Louis - Cleveland trains were the last to receive the 10-6 sleeping cars with each consist receiving a single car operating with the 18 Roomette cars until they were returned to the NICKEL PLATE LIMITED later in 1950. Beginning September 25, 1954 the NICKEL PLATE LIMITED trains were renamed the CITY OF CLEVELAND and CITY OF CHICAGO but continued to operate to and from Buffalo with through sleeping cars beyond to and from Hoboken. The through sleeping car service beyond Buffalo ended in 1958. After the merger of the Erie and DL&W October 17, 1960 forming the E-L the WESTERNER and NEW YORKER only carried through sleeping cars between Hoboken and Cleveland after August 4, 1962. The NKP/DL&W route between Chicago and Hoboken was 920 miles only thirteen miles greater than the PRR route and over forty miles shorter than the NYC route.
Over on the St. Louis - Cleveland route the unnamed trains 9-10 received names beginning October 28, 1956 westbound was named the BLUE ARROW and its eastbound counterpart was named the BLUE DART. The westbound BLU ARROW made its final run March 13, 1959 and the following day the eastbound BLUE DART made its final run. The CITY OF CLEVELAND and CITY OF CHICAGO lasted until after the N&W merger October 16, 1964 not being discontinued until September 10, 1965. All of the 10-6 Sleeping cars were sold to other railroads with eight going to the IC and five going to the CN. Both roads stripped the fluted stainless panels from the cars and repainted them in their own color schemes.
Besides the new 10-6 Sleeping cars received in 1950 the NKP received two 5 Double Bedroom 3 crew Dormitory Kitchen 18 seat dining 4 Seat Lounge cars numbered and named 150 CITY OF CLEVELAND and 151 CITY OF CHICAGO. These two cars operated in overnight service between their namesake cities. They served as lounges at night and served breakfast in the morning before arrival in the opposite terminals.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard January - February 1950 Plan: 4167A Lot: 6866 (Built for and assigned to NKP passenger trains)

200 CITY OF BUFFALO

201 CITY OF ST. LOUIS

202 CITY OF LORAIN

203 CITY OF INDIANAPOLIS

204 CITY OF PAINESVILLE

205 CITY OF ERIE

206 CITY OF TOLEDO

207 CITY OF PEORIA

208 CITY OF KOKOMO

209 CITY OF MUNCIE

210 CITY OF FINDLAY

211 CITY OF LIMA

212 CITY OF FT. WAYNE

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM 3 CREW DORMITORY BUFFET KITCHEN 18 SEAT DINETTE 4 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard May 1950 Plan: 4169 Lot: 6867 (Built for and assigned to NICKEL PLATE LIMITED)

150 CITY OF CLEVELAND

151 CITY OF CHICAGO

TTFN Al
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 7:08 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #33

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Kansas City Southern (KCS)



Headquarters: Kansas City, MO

Mileage:

1950: 962
2000: 2,995

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 121

Rolling stock in1963:

Freight cars; 581
Passenger cars: 22

Principal routes in 1950:

Kansas City, MO-Shreveport, LA-Port Arthur, TX
Dallas, TX-Shreveport-New Orleans, LA
Minden-Alexander, LA

Passenger trains of note:

Flying Crow (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)
Shreveporter (Hope-Shreveport)
Southern Belle (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 1:04 PM
KANSAS CITY
SOUTHERN
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The KCS owned a total of thirteen semi-streamlined or fully streamlined sleeping cars.
On September 2, 1940 the Kansas City Southern inaugurated the SOUTHERN BELLE between Kansas City and New Orleans by way of Shreveport. When inaugurated the new diesel powered trains required three sets of equipment to maintain daily service in both directions. A sample consist of the SOUTHERN BELLE follows as inaugurated.

21 EMC E3A 2,000 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

64 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office 9 Crew Dormitory Car

235 JOPLIN 74 Revenue Seat Divided Coach

237 ALEXANDRIA 74 Revenue Seat Divided Coach (New Orleans - Shreveport)

SILOAM SPRINGS
Semi-Streamlined Heavyweight 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (New Orleans - Shreveport)

KANSAS CITY 2-Day Room Stand Up Lunch Counter 24 seat Dining 17 seat Parlor Lounge Observation

The SOUTHERN BELL began service providing sleeping car service only between New Orleans and Shreveport as this was the overnight part of the run in both directions. The first two semi streamlined heavyweight 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom sleeping cars for the inaugural of the SOUTHERN BELLE were SILOAM SPRINGS rebuilt from 12-1 McBURNEY and SULPHUR SPRINGS rebuilt from 12-1 McLARTY. Both of these cars were rebuilt and semi-streamlined by Pullman Calumet in July 1940.
In February 1941 a third 12-1 was rebuilt and semi-streamlined by Pullman Calumet for SOUTHERN BELLE service emerging as a 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car. This car originally McALISTERVILLE was renamed BARKSDALE after rebuilding for KCS service. With the addition of BARKSDALE sleeping car service was extended to Kansas City from New Orleans.
In April 1941 two more semi-streamlined heavyweight sleeping cars arrived from rebuilding at Pullman Calumet to 10 Section 3 double Bedroom Sleeping cars with the names STATE CAPITAL and MENA. These were originally heavyweight 12-1 sleeping cars McELHERAN and McKULLO respectively. This gave the SOUTHERN BELLE one sleeping cars for Kansas City - New Orleans service daily in each direction with another added to both the northbound and southbound consist between Shreveport and New Orleans.
After the Second World War the KCS undertook a major rebuilding of their track, signals and physical plant. The result of this was that when new postwar SOUTHERN BELLES entered service in January 1949 only two sets of equipment were necessary to maintain daily service. The KCS purchased eight new lightweight streamlined 14 roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars from Pullman Standard that were delivered in May - June 1948. These cars were assigned two to each consist of the new SOUTHERN BELLES. One was a through Kansas City - New Orleans Sleeper the other was a Kansas City - Port Arthur, Texas Sleeping car that traveled between Kansas City and Shreveport in the SOUTHERN BELLE. Numbered KCS trains 101 and 102 carried the Port Arthur - Kansas City Sleeping cars on the six-hour trip between Port Arthur and Shreveport.
Another set of trains assigned a pair of the new 14-4 sleeping cars were 9-10 the nameless Kansas City - New Orleans counterpart to the SOUTHERN BELLE. Numbers 9-10 operated on the prewar schedule of the SOUTHERN BELLE and only carried Sleeping cars initially between New Orleans and Shreveport overnight. The two remaining sleeping cars were assigned to a joint MP-KCS operation between Texarkana and Hot Springs on the MP and Kansas City and Texarkana on KCS 9-10.
When KCS discontinued 101 and 102 between Port Arthur and Shreveport 9-10 received through sleeping cars between New Orleans and Kansas City. Two of these 14-4 sleeping cars went to Amtrak three others went to the Long Island and three went to the NdeM.

14 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard May - June 1948 Plan: 4153 Lot: 6795 (Built for and assigned to KCS services described above)

ARTHUR STILLWELL

COLONEL FORDYCE

HARVEY COUCH

JOB EDSON

LEONOR LOREE

STUART KNOTT

WILLIAM BUCHANAN

WILLIAM EDENBORN

TTFN Al
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Posted by LoveDomes on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:21 PM
Hiya Tom

Another doozy of a road to find info on! <groan> [swg]

I see 20 Fingers hasn't had a problem! <grin> Hey! How come you aren't showing up at the bar [?] [?] The "theme" over there shouldn't be a problem for YOU! Anyway, you can always "throw something" into the mix - others do it all the time! [swg]

Here's my meager contribution:

QUOTE: History
Arthur Stilwell began construction on the first line of what would become the Kansas City Southern Railway in 1887, in suburban Kansas City, Missouri. Over the ensuing decade the line grew through construction and acquisitions to become a through route between Kansas City and Port Arthur, Texas, with the final spike being driven north of Beaumont, Texas, on September 11, 1897. Another mainline between Dallas, Texas and New Orleans, Louisiana, via Shreveport, Louisiana, was added through merger with the Louisiana and Arkansas Railway during the 1930s. From 1940 to 1969, Kansas City Southern operated the Southern Belle passenger train between Kansas City and New Orleans.

The core KCS system remained essentially the same until the 1990s, when the purchase of the MidSouth Rail Corporation extended KCS' reach eastward from Shreveport and into Mississippi and Alabama. This acquisition, combined with existing KCS routes, created a key east-west mainline marketed as the Meridian Speedway (named for the town of Meridian, Mississippi). An additional acquisition, the Gateway Western Railway, extended KCS' reach from Kansas City to St. Louis, Missouri and into Illinois.

The 1990s also saw KCS extend its reach into Mexico, with the acquisition of partial interests in the Texas Mexican Railway and Grupo Transportación Ferroviaria Mexicana. In 2005, KCS was successful in acquiring a controlling interest in both roads.

A parent company of the Kansas City Southern Railway was organized in 1962 as Kansas City Southern Industries, Inc. In 2002 the name of the parent company was shortened to Kansas City Southern.

from wikipedia.com



Until the next time!


Lars
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:16 PM
G'day!

Thanx for the input Al 'n Lars!

Check out this Pix I took last year while at KCity's Union Station:




Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 7:48 PM
G'day!

A final shot of the KCS FP9A #34 . . . .




Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:50 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #34

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Wabash (WRR)



Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Mileage in 1950: 2,393

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 319

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 14,240
Passenger cars: 126

Principal routes in 1950:

Buffalo, NY-Detroit, MI-Fort Wayne, IN-Decatur, IL-Springfield, IL-Moberly, MO-Kansas City, MO
Chicago-Decatur-St. Louis (followed Buffalo-KC Line Bement-Decatur)
St. Louis-Moberly, MO-Des Moines, IA
Brunswick, MO-Council Bluffs, IA
Toledo, OH-Chicago
Bluffs, IL-Keokuk, IA

Passenger trains of note:

Banner Blue (Chicago-St. Louis)
Blue Bird Chicago-St. Louis)
City of Kansas City (St. Louis-Kansas City)
City of St. Louis (St. Louis-Denver-Cheyenne-Los Angeles)
Des Moines Limited (St. Louis-Des Moines)
Detroit Arrow (Chicago-Detroit)
Detroit Limited (St. Louis-Detroit)
Kansas City Express (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Midnight Limited (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Omaha Limited (St. Louis-Omaha)
Pacific Coast Special (St. Louis-Pacific Coast points)
Red Bird (Chicago-Detroit)
St. Louis Limited (Detroit-St. Louis)
St. Louis Limited (Des Moines & Omaha-St. Louis)
St. Louis Special (Kansas City-St. Louis)
The Midnight (Chicago-St. Louis)
“Wabash Cannon Ball” (St. Louis-Detroit)

Of note: Chicago-Detroit service by PRR between Chicago-Fort Wayne; through trains west of Kansas City handled by UP

WABASH CANNONBALL
(unknown author & date)

From the great Atlantic ocean to the wide Pacific shore
From the green ol' Smoky mountains to the south lands by the shore She's mighty tall and handsome and she's known quite well by all
She's the regular combination on the Wabash Cannonball
Listen to the jingle, the rumble and the roar
As she glides along the woodland through the hills and by the shore
Hear the mighty rush of the engine, hear the lonesome hoboes call
You're traveling through the jungles on the Wabash Cannonball
Our eastern states are dandy, so the people always say
From New York to St. Louis with Chicago by the way
From the hills of Minnesota where the rippling waters fall
No changes can be taken on the Wabash Cannonball
Now here's to Daddy Claxton, may his name forever stand
And always be remembered through the courts throughout the land
His earthly race is over, now the curtains round him fall
He’ll be carried home to Glory on the Wabash Cannonball!

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 370 posts
Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:47 AM
As usual, I'm a day or two out of phase with the theme of the day, but I hope you'll enjoy this shot, nonetheless.

The two ex-M&StL RDC4s, working as C&O 9080-9081, were photographed in October 1962 by Willis McCaleb. I know these cars worked a run within KY, but don't know the exact location. If anyone has an idea, I'd welcome that info!

Art


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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:55 AM
A touch more C&O coverage. E8 1469 on the "Pere Marquette" (Chgo-Grand Rapids) under the Northwestern Station trainshed on April 18, 1969. Three of us rode the train to Michigan City that day, returning via South Shore Line.

Cheers!

Art


  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 370 posts
Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:00 PM
Last C&O image deviates from the "classic" theme and is definitely not a passenger train, but I hope you enjoy it anyways.

Three nearly-new (built the previous month) GP15Ts head a freight on the ex-RI line at Tinley Park on November 6, 1982. Trailing the locos are dead L&N locos/slugs headed for Silvis.

Art


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  • From: northeast U.S.
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Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Hiya Cap'n Tom

I see Art has returned with some great pix! I know you'll love the RDCs on page 62! They weren't designed to pull, were they [?] I recall reading several points of view on that and then YOUR clarification taken from a reliable source - the manufacturer. Interersting shot for sure! [tup]

Here's my meager contribution to the "theme" over here - the Wabash . . . .


Wabash #200 (1956) (from: www.trainweb.org)



Until the next time!


Lars
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 370 posts
Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:59 PM
Hi Lars -

True enough about RDCs and hauling any cars. In fact in Ed Kielty's book on the RDCs there was a black & white of this same C&O operation, with the caption noting that the Budd warranty had been voided, or words to that effect.

Art
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  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 4:31 PM
G'day!

Good to see ya, Lars and thanx for the "theme" Pix!! [tup]

Nice stuff from Art and no doubt the RDC Pix "did it" for me! [yeah] Many thanx! [tup]

Now to the "issue" at hand .... RDCs hauling cars. The answer may be found on page 62 of "RDC The Budd Rail Diesel Car," by Donald Duke and Edmond Keilty.

They say, "About the only task an RDC could not do was haul a non-powered trailer car. During a trial test, the Chicago & Eastern Illinois tried just such an experiment. The result; the fluid in the Allison torgque converters immediately heated up to the danger point. The car's design was such that it could pull nothing other than itself. It was an unrealistic request to ask that much from a vehicle that heats and cools itself, stops like a motor bus, and costs about the price of a lounge car. Despite this fact, there were still several roads that did pull trailers, at least for a period of time. Among these lines were the Minneapolis & St. Louis, the Rock Island, the Chesapeake & Ohio, the Southern Pacific, and the Long Island."

Long live the RDC! [tup] [tup] [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2002
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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 4:38 PM
Hi Tom -

Glad you liked the RDC shot. Willis had a good eye for a nice shot, and I'm glad that his path and that of the C&O train crossed! I note an error in what I typed about the "Pere Marquette" shot. The year should be 1971, not 1969. Sorry!

Art
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:42 PM
Hi Art

Here's a different version of those C&O RDC-4s . . . .

C&O RDC-4s #9080-9081 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org - foto credit: S.J. Cook)



Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:28 PM
Good Afternoon Gents. T
Art the C&O route you were inquiring about was Ashland to Elkhorn City a distance of 134 miles between November 1960 and July 1963.. Train numberrs were 36 and 49.

WABASH
Streamlined sleeping Cars
By Al

The Wabash owned a total of twelve lightweight streamlined sleeping cars. Ten were 12 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars with four painted UP streamliner colors, they were assigned to the CITY OF ST. LOUIS between St. Louis and Los Angeles and carried WESTERN prefix names. These WESTERN prefix cars were delivered in February 1950 by American Car & Foundry along with six BLUE prefix names cars of the same type painted in Blue and White for service in Wabash overnight trains between Chicago and St. Louis and St. Louis and Detroit trains. Two BLUE prefix cars were assigned one per consist to the overnight Detroit - St. Louis trains and two per consist were assigned to the overnight Chicago - St. Louis trains.

12 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS American Car & Foundry February 1950 Plan: 9004 Lot: 3074 (Built for and assigned to Wabash overnight trains and CITY OF ST. LOUIS)
Waba***rains

BLUE BOY

BLUE CLOUD

BLUE GAZELLE

BLUE HORIZON

BLUE KNIGHT

BLUE SKIES

CITY OF ST. LOUIS

WESTERN LAKE

WESTERN SCENE

WESTERN SUNSET

WESTERN VIEW

In August 1951 ownership of Wabash WESTERN SCENE was transferred to the Union Pacific.
Three 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars were delivered to the Wabash between November 1955 and February 1956 for assignment to the CITY OF ST. LOUIS pool of cars. These cars were assigned NATIONAL prefix names and the Bedrooms were located mid-car between the trucks, Sections were located at one end and Roomettes at the other end.

6 SECTION 6 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard November 1955 - February 1956 Plan: 4197 Lot: 6957 (Built for and assigned to CITY OF ST. LOUIS)

NATIONAL COLORS

NATIONAL HOMES

NATIONAL UNITY

TTFN Al
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  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:11 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #35

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Erie Railroad



Headquarters: Cleveland, OH

Mileage in 1950: 2,341

Locomotives in 1960:

Diesel: 695

Rolling stock in 1960:

Freight cars: 20,372
Passenger cars: 519

Principal routes in 1950:

Jersey City-Paterson, NJ-Middletown-Hornell, NY-Youngstown, OH-Chicago (Hammond-Chicago via rights on the Chicago & Western Indiana)
Marion-Dayton-Cincinnati, OH (Dayton-Cincinnati via rights on the B&0)
Hamilton, OH-Indianapolis, IN (rights on the B&O)
Leavittsburg-Cleveland, OH
Pymatuning, PA-Leavittsburg, OH
Hornell-Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY
Salamanca-Dunkirk, NY
Corning (Painted Post)-Attica, NY
Avon-Rochester, NY
River Junction-Cuba Junction, NY
Carrolton, NY-Eleanora Jct., NY (Brockway-Eleanora Jct. via B&O rights)
Corning, NY-Newberry, Jct., PA
Lanesboro-Wilkes Barre & Scranton, PA
Lackawaxen-Avoca, PA
Newburgh Jct.-Campbell Hall-Graham, NY
Maybrook-Pine Island, NY
Croxton (Jersey City)-Nyack, NY
Piermont-Suffern, NY
NY&NJ Jct.,-Ridgewood Jct.
Paterson (Newark Jct.)-Newark, NJ
Croxton-Midvale, NJ

Passenger trains of note:

Erie Limited (Jersey City-Chicago & Buffalo)
Lake Cities (Jersey City-Cleveland & Buffalo; later extended to Chicago)
Pacific Express (Jersey City-Chicago)
Atlantic Express (Chicago-Jersey City)
Midlander (Jersey City-Chicago)
Southern Tier Express (Buffalo-Hornell-Jersey City)
Mountain Express (Jersey City-Hornell)
Tuxedo (Jersey City-Port Jervis)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:48 PM
G'day!

Hmmmm, no responses! Well, here's something to enjoy . . . .

Erie GP-7 #1210 (foto credit: unknown)


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:14 PM
ERIE
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The Erie owned a total of thirteen lightweight streamlined sleeping cars all built by Pullman Standard. There were three different types of sleeping cars purchased by the Erie. First to arrive on the Erie were four AMERICAN series 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars from Pullman Standard. These were part of a large order for these cars that went to Union Pacific, Chicago & North Western, Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, Rock Island, Missouri Pacific and Illinois Central. The four cars received in June 1942 were assigned to the ERIE LIMITED between New York and Chicago.

6 SECTION 6 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard June 1942 Plan: 4099 Lot: 6669 (Built for and assigned to ERIE LIMITED & LAKE CITIES)

AMERICAN LIBERTY

AMERICAN LIFE

AMERICAN UNITY

AMERICAN WAY

It would be 1949 before additional lightweight streamlined sleeping cars would join the Erie. In May-June 1949 Pullman Standard delivered seven 10-6 sleeping cars named for persons who had influenced the Erie. These cars were assigned to the ERIE LIMITED, LAKE CITIES and ATLANTIC EXPRESS.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard May - June 1949 Plan: 4129A Lot: 6797 (Built for and assigned to ERIE LIMITED, LAKE CITIES and ATLANTIC EXPRESS)

BENJAMIN LODER

CHARLES MINOT

DANIEL CRAIG McCALLUM

ELEAZAR LORD

JAMES GORE KING

MARVIN KENT

WILLIAM REYNOLDS

After the delivery of the 10-6 sleeping cars the sleeping car assignments on the Erie were as follows.

ERIE LIMITED #1

New York - Chicago
10-6

Salamanca - Chicago
6-6-4

Akron - Chicago
10-6

ERIE LIMITED #2

Chicago - New York
10-6

Chicago - Salamanca
6-6-4

LAKE CITIES #5

New York - Chicago
10-6

New York - Cleveland 6-6-4

LAKE CITIES # 6

Chicago - New York
10-6

Cleveland - New York
6-6-4

ATLANTIC EXPRESS #8

Chicago - Akron
10-6

The Erie purchased two 10-5 Sleeping cars from Pullman Standard that were delivered in June 1954 that were nearly identical to the 10-5 sleeping cars purchased by the Canadian National about the same time. The two Erie 10-5 Sleeping cars were assigned to service between Chicago and Youngstown overnight in each direction. The eastbound car traveled in the ATLANTIC EXPRESS and the westbound car traveled in the ERIE LIMITED.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard June 1954 Plan: 4186B Lot: 6946 (Built for and assigned to Chicago - Youngstown service in ERIE LIMITED and ATLANTIC EXPRESS)

PRIDE OF YOUNGSTOWN

SPIRIT OF YOUNGSTOWN

The Erie merged with the Delaware Lackawanna and Western in October 1960 creating the Erie - Lackawanna.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:11 PM
Hiya Cap'n Tom

I'm not even going to try to dig up anything on the Erie - good grief! These are getting more difficult as the numbers rise! [swg]

So, here's my contribution for the day - DOMES - as the name implies, I love 'em . . .

Colorado Railcar Ultra Dome - Rocky Mountaineer



Colorado Railcar Ultra Dome - Holland America cruise lines



Alaska Railroad double deck dome by Colorado Railcar


Until the next time!


Lars
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:43 PM
G'day!

Lars - chill, man - chill! [swg] No sweat about not having anything to provide regarding some of these rather obscure RRs from the past. They surely weren't back then - but material IS difficult to come by these days. Not worth the worry - just being Posted for the interest.

Now, domes is where it's at! I just don't care for excursion and tourist trains per se. I'm a "real railroad passenger fan" so to speak. Now having said that, I'm also a "veteran" of many, many VIA Rail Canada trips where the overwhelming number of passengers were in fact - tourists. Same for our recently concluded Alaskan rail adventure - virtually all tourist. However - and this is a big however - we were in the "real" cars - not those being towed along and owned by cruise ship operators. No thanx.

I like these new double deck domes - whether they are called Ultra Domes or something else. Having traveled them I can say they surpass any rail experience I've ever had -and that says A LOT for me! I'd love to see VIA Rail use them on their cross Canada trains and get into a serious replacement program for their aging fleet whereby the single and double level domes become the "norm."

Now Amtrak is a totally different matter. I dare say we'll NEVER see these cars on Amtrak nor will we see replacements for the Superliner equipment. Stuff is simply breaking down, with the fleet dwindling so rapidly that talk of laying up a long distance train or two isn't really conjecture - at least that's what I'm hearing and reading - and NOT from Forum sources.

America's passenger rail system just plain ISN'T - but it could be. Using modern equipment is only one step in the right direction. We need a commitment from the Congress to put into place a RELIABLE, SAFE and MODERN system - one that moves people efficiently from place to place, free from the entanglements of bureaucratic BS and political gobbledygook. WIll it happen [?] Nope - not in two lifetimes, is my guess - and I'm 68.

Okay, that's it - and all begun because you Posted those Domes! [swg]

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, June 16, 2006 8:39 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #36

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Southern (SOU)



Headquarters: Washington, DC

Mileage in 1950: 6,300

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 644

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 40,038
Passenger cars: 587

Principal (not all) routes in 1950:

Washington, DC-Charlotte, NC-Atlanta, GA-Birmingham, AL-New Orleans, LA
Cincinnati, OH-Chattanooga, TN-Birmingham
Danville, KY-St. Louis, MO
Chattanooga-Memphis, TN
Chattanooga-Morristown-Knoxville-Bristol, TN
Chattanooga-Atlanta-Valdosta, FL-Jacksonville, FL
Valdosta-Palatka, FL
Salisbury-Asheville, NC-Morristown, TN
Asheville-Spartanburg-Charleston, SC
Charlotte-Jacksonville
Danville-West Point, VA
Greensboro, NC-Norfolk, VA
Rome, GA-Mobile, AL

Passenger trains of note (not all) :

Aiken-Augusta Special (Washington-Salisbury-Augusta)
Asheville Special (Washington-Greensboro-Asheville)
Birmingham Special (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxvillle-Chattanooga-Birmingham
Carolina Special (Cincinnati-Knoxville-Asheville-Greensboro & Charleston)
Crescent (New York-Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans))
Florida Sunbeam (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Florida points)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Birmingham-Atlanta-Brunswick & Florida points)
Peach Queen (Washington-Atlanta)
Pelican (New York-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Piedmont Limited (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)
Ponce de Leon (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Jacksonville)
Queen & Crescent (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Royal Palm (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Jacksonville)
Skyland Special (Asheville-Jacksonville)
Southerner (Washington-Atlanta-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Sunnyland (Memphis-Birmingham-Atlanta)
Tennessean (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Memphis)
Washington-Atlanta-New Orleans Express (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)

Of note:
PRR handled SR trains east of Washington.
N&W handled SR trains via Bristol between Lynchburg and Bristol.
A&WP handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery.
WRofA and L&N handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery west of Atlanta.
Frisco handled SR trains between Memphis and Birmingham, west of Birmingham (The Kansas City-Florida Special).
Frisco handled SR trains handled the Sunnyland Memphis-Birmingham route.
SAL handled SR train The Florida Sunbeam south of Jacksonville.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, June 16, 2006 12:34 PM
G'day!

Now we KNOW there's a ton of info available on the Southern - much of it on these Pages!

So, here's an installment that was first Posted over at the bar . . . .

Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Ten

Southern Railway (SOU)



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

Locale: U.S. Southern states

Reporting marks: SOU

Dates of operation: 1894 – 1982

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: Washington, D.C.

The Southern Railway (AAR reporting mark SOU) was the product of nearly 150 predecessor lines that were combined, reorganized and recombined beginning in the 1830s, formally becoming the Southern Railway in 1894. It was combined with the Norfolk and Western Railway to form the Norfolk Southern Railway in 1982.

History


1921 map

The nine-mile South Carolina Canal and Rail Road, Southern's earliest predecessor line and one of the first railroads in the United States, was chartered in December 1827 and ran the nation's first regularly scheduled steam powered passenger train – the wood-burning Best Friend of Charleston – out of Charleston, South Carolina, on December 25, 1830. (The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad ran regular passenger service earlier that year.) By 1833, its 136-mile line to Hamburg, SC, was the longest in the world.

As railroad fever struck other Southern states, networks gradually spread across the South and even across the Allegheny Mountains. Charleston, South Carolina and Memphis, TN, were linked by 1857, although rail expansion halted with the start of the Civil War. The York River Railroad, which operated from the Pamunkey River at West Point, Virginia to Richmond, Virginia, was a major focus of George McClellan's 1862 Peninsular Campaign, which culminated in the Seven Days Battles and devastated the tiny rail link. The Richmond and Danville Railroad was the Confederacy's last link to Richmond, and transported Jefferson Davis and his cabinet to Danville, Virginia just before the fall of Richmond in April 1865.

Known as the "first railroad war," the Civil War left the South's railroads and economy devastated. Most of the railroads, however, were repaired, reorganized and operated again. In the area along the Ohio River and Mississippi River, construction of new railroads continued throughout Reconstruction.

Southern Railway, as it came into existence in 1894, was a combination of the Richmond and Danville system and the East Tennessee, Virginia and Georgia Railroad. The company owned two-thirds of the 4,400 miles of line it operated, and the rest was held through leases, operating agreements and stock ownership. Southern also controlled the Alabama Great Southern and the Georgia Southern and Florida, which operated separately, and it had an interest in the Central of Georgia.

Southern's first president, Samuel Spencer, drew more lines into Southern's core system. During his 12-year term, the railway built new shops at Knoxville, TN, and Atlanta, GA and purchased more equipment. He moved the company's service away from an agricultural dependence on tobacco and cotton and centered its efforts on diversifying traffic and industrial development. Sadly, Spencer was killed in train wreck in 1906.

By the time the line from Meridian, Mississippi, to New Orleans, LA was acquired in 1916 under Southern's president Fairfax Harrison, the railroad had attained the 8,000-mile, 13-state system that marked its territorial limits for almost half a century.

The Central of Georgia became part of the system in 1963, and the former Norfolk Southern Railway was acquired in 1974.

Notable features


1895 map

Southern and its predecessors were responsible for many firsts in the industry. Its predecessor, the South Carolina Canal and Rail Road, was the first to carry passengers, U.S. troops and mail on steam-powered trains, and it was the first to operate at night. In 1953, Southern Railway became the first major railroad in the United States to convert totally to diesel-powered locomotives, ending its rich history in the golden age of steam.

Every diesel locomotive Southern owned had to be ordered with a high hood and pointed long hood forward, this was meant for crew safety in case of accidents with vehicles and from the first GP7 to the last GP50, they came with this option until the tradition stopped with the SD50.

From dieselization and shop and yard modernization, to computers and the development of special cars and the unit coal train, Southern often was on the cutting edge of change, earning the company its catch phrase, "The Railway System that Gives a Green Light to Innovations".

Merger into Norfolk Southern

In response to the creation of CSX in 1980, the Southern Railway merged with Norfolk and Western Railway to form the Norfolk Southern Railway, further consolidating railroads in the eastern half of the United States.

Roads owned by the Southern Railway

• Alabama Great Southern Railroad (AGS)
• Central of Georgia Railway (CofG)
• Cincinnati New Orleans and Texas Pacific Railway (CNO&TP)
• Georgia and Florida Railway (G&F)
• Georgia Northern Railway (GANO) — acquired in 1967
• Georgia Southern and Florida Railway (GS&F)
• Knoxville and Charleston Railroad
• Tennessee, Alabama and Georgia Railway (TA&G)

Major Railroad Yards on the Southern Railway

• Chattanooga, Tennessee – DeButts Yard (formerly Citico Yard)
• Atlanta, Georgia – Inman Yard
• Linwood, North Carolina – Spencer Yard
• Birmingham, Alabama – Norris Yard
• Knoxville, Tennessee – Sevier Yard
• Macon, Georgia – Brosnan Yard
• Sheffield, Alabama – Sheffield Yard

Company officers

Presidents of the Southern Railway:

• Samuel Spencer (1894–1906)
• William Finley (1906–1913)
• Fairfax Harrison (1913–1937)
• Earnest E. Norris (1937–1951)
• Harry A. DeButts (1951–1962)
• D. William Brosnan (1962–1967)
• W. Graham Claytor Jr. (1967–1977)
• L. Stanley Crane (1977–1980)
• Harold H. Hall (1980–1982)

References

• Norfolk Southern Railway. Retrieved February 22, 2005.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, June 16, 2006 1:57 PM
G'day!

Of course, a discussion about the Southern wouldn't be complete without:


Southern #1401 at the Smithsonian



Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 370 posts
Posted by artpeterson on Friday, June 16, 2006 2:24 PM
Hi all -

Well, reading the forum from work means I'm almost never in synch with your themes of the day! So, pardon me for deviating, but I thought you'd enjoy this shot of RI "La Mirada" at the RR Fair on July 30, 1948. The original was taken by Barney Stone.

Have a great weekend!

Art


  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Friday, June 16, 2006 3:03 PM
G'day Cap'n Tom

Love the Southern - great railroad! [tup] [tup] [tup]

Saw that beauty in the Smithsonian a few times. The consist that went with it was an awesome display of fine looking passenger cars! [yeah]

Here's one to enjoy! [tup]

Southern EMD E8 #6908 (photo: Martin O'Toole)




Hey Art! - I know all about being a day late and a dollar short 'round these threads! [swg] I'm sure Tom is only interested in meaningful participation, both here and at his bar! Good work, as usual. [tup]

Found this from a magzine cover . . . .

Rock Island's La Mirda observation as the tail car of the Golden Rocket



Until the next time!

Lars
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 370 posts
Posted by artpeterson on Friday, June 16, 2006 4:21 PM
Hi Lars -

Good eye - that shot of the La Mirada on the cover of "VR" was also taken by Barney Stone at the same time. Wild to see things like the C&O 500 and 501 along with brand-new UP F7 sets and the ACF-Talgo "Train X" consist in his slides of the fair.

Art

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